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AUKUS: Is this the start of WWIII?

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Port Caverton
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5210
Founded: Oct 01, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Port Caverton » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:28 pm

Stellar Colonies wrote:Would one prefer their superpower next door or across an ocean?

Flawed democracy accross the ocean > Totalitarian goverment next door
"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

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StrayaRoos
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Founded: Sep 08, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby StrayaRoos » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:26 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
StrayaRoos wrote: at the time no-ones restarted building Nukes so i say not yet

"Restarted"? Who exactly are you referring to with that statement? The US, UK, China, and Russia have never stopped building/maintaining nuclear weapons since they first had them, so none of them have ever "restarted"...

i thought there was an nuclear treaty stopping nukes from being built
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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:38 pm

StrayaRoos wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:"Restarted"? Who exactly are you referring to with that statement? The US, UK, China, and Russia have never stopped building/maintaining nuclear weapons since they first had them, so none of them have ever "restarted"...

i thought there was an nuclear treaty stopping nukes from being built

There’s arms reduction treaties (mainly between the US and Russia) & bans on testing, but the former is only about numbers and the latter is irrelevant if you already have nukes (and not really enforceable on the others).

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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:42 pm

StrayaRoos wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:"Restarted"? Who exactly are you referring to with that statement? The US, UK, China, and Russia have never stopped building/maintaining nuclear weapons since they first had them, so none of them have ever "restarted"...

i thought there was an nuclear treaty stopping nukes from being built


Well the NPT does do not explicitly prohibit the PRC, US, Russia, UK and France from building nuclear weapons and explicitly allows them to have them.
It basically prohibits other places from building or possessing them but several places (India, Pakistan, Israel North Korea) still have nukes in contravention of the treaty and have rejected the treaty. North Korea is the most controversial case as unlike the other three actually joined the treaty then subsequently broke it, the other three never joined it.

Now in theory the NPT calls on the 5 nuclear powers to gradually disarm but that is vague (it has no official date as to when or how, just a vague aspiration that is not likely to ever be achieved). One could certainly argue that the PRC’s massive nuclear build up is against the spirit of the NPT (the other 4 have extensively modernized their nuclear forces but without increasing total number of warheads at least since the late 80s for the Soviets/Russia (who took over the Soviet position in the NPT and the mid 60s for the US which you could also argue is against the spirit but less so as total numbers were decreased from their high points) but the NPT is too vague and nobody has the will to strictly enforce it against the PRC.
Last edited by Novus America on Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Right-wing Utopia

Postby Lord Dominator » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:59 pm

Or the ability to enforce, for various obvious reasons.

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Northern Socialist Council Republics
Senator
 
Posts: 3765
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:34 pm

The NPT basically amounts to a declaration that the existing great powers will do whatever they please on the military-security front, but it is an intolerable and destabilising crime for any minor power to try and defend themselves from the great powers.

Heck, would we even be concerned about a Chinese takeover of Taiwan if the Taipei government had them some nuclear IRBMs?

Frankly we’d be better off without that treaty, I reckon.

To paraphrase something I vaguely recall a video game character saying:
“Of course you Americans want a nuclear-free world. Then you can conquer whoever you please with your superiority in conventional arms.”
Last edited by Northern Socialist Council Republics on Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Antipatros
Minister
 
Posts: 2749
Founded: Aug 26, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Antipatros » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:36 am

Port Caverton wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Would one prefer their superpower next door or across an ocean?

Flawed democracy accross the ocean > Totalitarian goverment next door

Flawed is putting it mildly at this point.

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StrayaRoos
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Founded: Sep 08, 2021
Left-Leaning College State

Postby StrayaRoos » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:23 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:
StrayaRoos wrote:i thought there was an nuclear treaty stopping nukes from being built

There’s arms reduction treaties (mainly between the US and Russia) & bans on testing, but the former is only about numbers and the latter is irrelevant if you already have nukes (and not really enforceable on the others).

Oh,I read that there was an treaty stopping nations from building them
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Trivalve
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 413
Founded: Jun 17, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Trivalve » Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:51 pm

StrayaRoos wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:There’s arms reduction treaties (mainly between the US and Russia) & bans on testing, but the former is only about numbers and the latter is irrelevant if you already have nukes (and not really enforceable on the others).

Oh,I read that there was an treaty stopping nations from building them

I believe that the treaty is now just a cap on how much can be made, the rule on creation has now literally become a guideline rather then a rule, some countries just don't follow it and no one is stopping them.
Last edited by Trivalve on Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Former Minister of On-Site Events the South Pacific, Delegates Advisory Council the South Pacific, Founder and Head ISO of Crimson Spire, former Local Councillor of the South Pacific, Creator and Head of the Regional Development program, former Deputy Councillor of the South Pacific.

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