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[DRAFT] Condemn Dalimbar

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Giovanniland
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[DRAFT] Condemn Dalimbar

Postby Giovanniland » Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:01 pm

After passing my first resolution, I've decided to write more resolutions about other TWP residents. This required a lot more research than my previous one, since I hadn't yet joined the game when any of Dalimbar's actions described in this draft happened. So thank you to the older players who helped me with information, as well as the NS forums and some regional forums. Here it goes:

Current Draft (4701 of 5000 characters):
The Security Council,

Introducing Dalimbar as a nation that not only actively undermined the sovereignty of various regions throughout several years, but also encouraged other despicable nations to do the same;

Alarmed by Dalimbar's repeated subversion of the North Pacific's legitimate government, via the satellite state of Chodean Kal, where they:
  • won the February 2007 delegate elections against Emperor Matthuis (EM) through a heinous plan, in which outsiders not only manipulated the election by voting for Chodean Kal but also made EM pass Great Bights Mum in endorsements, thus appearing like EM couped the region and successfully shifting the public's opinion;
  • refused to leave once their delegate term was over as mandated by regional laws, instead staying on the seat for three more weeks until August 2007 and blaming regional stagnation as the reason for this villainous action, as well as dissolving the regional government and banjecting many long term residents during the illegitimate part of their delegacy;
  • sowed chaos in the region when EM couped it in October 2007, during which Neo Kervoskia and Chodean Kal colluded to publicly support the couping side and the opposition respectively while privately manipulating both sides;
  • aided Lewis and Clark's (Westwind) coup of January 2008 that established the Crimson Order, in which Chodean Kal served as Lord Marshal General to command a new military after the destruction of the region's previous defender military that had been in existence for several years, as well as to lead to the Crimson Order's foreign affairs, strategy, and infiltration of opposition;
Disturbed that Dalimbar used the alias of Lady Anastasia to create the Empire alongside Minineenee (Lady Phedre) and Neo Kervoskia (Lord Griffin), serving within the Imperial Council in the roles of Lady of the Shadows and Coordinator of Consolidation and Expansion to manage the Empire's intelligence and foreign affairs respectively, ultimately contributing to the success of this notorious group that enacted multiple coups within several large regions;

Appalled by Lady Anastasia's contributions to the Empire's coup of the East Pacific in August 2008, during which they created propaganda against the natives, declared war on almost all Feeders and Sinkers, and nearly convinced Delegate The Faeyas of the West Pacific to sign a treaty recognizing the Empire as the legitimate East Pacifican government, all while their masters in Dalimbar held the position of Magister in the overthrown government and continued to serve as Delegate of Equilism until Lady Anastasia's identity was uncovered, demonstrating Dalimbar's atrocious ability of keeping secret identities separate to trick the international community for months;

Horrified by Dalimbar's aid in the December 2012 coup spearheaded by Neo Kervoskia against the Kemetic Republic of Osiris, in which these two then-members of the Council of Ma'at (the regional security council) revealed their true colors by flying the Empire's flag and seizing the Delegate seat for twelve hours each, during which a purge of over 500 Osiran residents was conducted in order to destabilize the region;

Dismayed by Dalimbar's support to other nations' plans of overthrowing legitimate governments of other Feeder regions, including, but not limited to:
  • Wickedly evil people's January 2009 takeover of the West Pacific, with Dalimbar serving as the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee to assist the rogue government's foreign relations and hold onto power for over 100 days, which influenced the end of democracy in the region and the rise of an authoritarian government based on delegate supremacy that continues to this day;
  • Sedgistan's May 2011 takeover of the South Pacific orchestrated through the secret satellite state of Devonitians, during which Dalimbar convinced multiple raider regions to help in the operation, only to later publicly reveal Devonitians' true identity in an attempt to cause internal upheaval within the Rejected Realms (an ally of the South Pacific), in which Sedgistan was involved in the government at the time;
Surprised that a nation with such history has not been yet reprehended by this Council, and warning other nations to not go down this path of regional subversion;

Hereby condemns Dalimbar.


Older Drafts:
The Security Council,

Introducing Dalimbar as a nation that not only actively undermined the sovereignty of various regions throughout several years, but also encouraged other despicable nations to do the same;

Alarmed by Dalimbar's repeated subversion of the North Pacific's legitimate government, via the satellite state of Chodean Kal, where they:
  • won the February 2007 delegate elections against Emperor Matthuis (EM) through a heinous plan, in which outsiders not only manipulated the election by voting for Chodean Kal but also made EM pass Great Bights Mum in endorsements, thus appearing like EM couped the region and successfully shifting the public's opinion;
  • refused to leave once their delegate term was over as mandated by regional laws, instead staying on the seat for three more weeks until August 2007 and blaming regional stagnation as the reason for this villainous action, as well as dissolving the regional government and banjecting many long term residents during the illegitimate part of their delegacy;
  • sowed chaos in the region when EM couped it in October 2007, during which Neo Kervoskia and Chodean Kal colluded to publicly support the couping side and the opposition respectively while privately manipulating both sides, and later encouraged EM to use the delegacy as a platform to eject all of its endorsers and briefly remove Kandarin as the Delegate of the Rejected Realms;
  • aided Lewis and Clark's (Westwind) coup of January 2008, in which Chodean Kal served as Lord Marshal General in the Crimson Order that replaced the elected government, leading the Crimson Order's foreign affairs, military, strategy, and infiltration of opposition;
Disturbed that Dalimbar used the alias of Lady Anastasia to create Empire alongside Biyah (Lord Rahl), Minineenee (Lady Phedre), and Neo Kervoskia (Lord Griffin), serving within the Imperial Council in the roles of Lady of the Shadows and Coordinator of Consolidation and Expansion to manage Empire's intelligence and foreign affairs respectively, ultimately contributing to the success of this notorious group that enacted multiple coups within several large regions;

Appalled by Lady Anastasia's contributions to Empire's coup of the East Pacific in August 2008, during which they created propaganda against the natives, declared war on almost all Feeders and Sinkers, and nearly convinced Delegate The Faeyas of the West Pacific to sign a treaty recognizing Empire as the legitimate East Pacifican government, all while their masters in Dalimbar held the position of Magister in the overthrown government and continued to serve as Delegate of Equilism until Lady Anastasia's identity was uncovered, demonstrating Dalimbar's atrocious ability of keeping secret identities separate to trick the international community for months;

Horrified by the December 2012 coup perpetrated by Empire against the Kemetic Republic of Osiris, accomplished by Dalimbar's tricking of the United Defenders League into believing that Osiris was being attacked by a third party so that the defenders would come in to protect the elected government, but instead they actually aided Dalimbar and Neo Kervoskia to seize the Delegate seat for twelve hours each; this resulted in the two nations soon flying Empire's flag to reveal their true colors and betray the Council of Ma'at, the regional security council of which they were members before the coup, and then proceeding to conduct a purge of over 500 Osiran residents until being unseated;

Dismayed by Dalimbar's support to other nations' plans of overthrowing legitimate governments of other Feeder regions, including, but not limited to:
  • Wickedly evil people's January 2009 takeover of the West Pacific, with Dalimbar serving as the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee to assist the rogue government's foreign relations and hold onto power for over 100 days after Wickedly evil people had disbanded the previous government;
  • Sedgistan's May 2011 takeover of the South Pacific orchestrated through the secret satellite state of Devonitians, during which Dalimbar convinced multiple raider regions to help in the operation, only to later publicly reveal Devonitians' true identity together with Biyah, in an attempt to cause internal upheaval within the Rejected Realms (an ally of the South Pacific), in which Sedgistan was involved in the government at the time;
Surprised that a nation with such history has not been yet reprehended by this Council, and warning other nations to not go down this path of regional subversion;

Hereby condemns Dalimbar.
Last edited by Giovanniland on Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:11 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Postby The Python » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:56 pm

Looks pretty good Gio! I wanted to do this but ninja'd

Giovanniland wrote:Horrified by the December 2012 coup perpetrated by Empire against the Kemetic Republic of Osiris, accomplished by Dalimbar's tricking of the United Defenders League into believing that Osiris was being attacked by someone else so that the defenders would come in to protect the elected government, but instead they actually aided Dalimbar and Neo Kervoskia to seize the Delegate seat for twelve hours each; this resulted in the two nations soon flying Empire's flag to reveal their true colors and betray the Council of Ma'at, the regional security council of which they were members before the coup, and then proceeding to conduct a purge of over 500 Osiran residents until being unseated;

If I understand what happened here, I think Empire ended up giving up on the coup for OOC reasons before it could succeed? I might be wrong though..
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Postby Giovanniland » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:08 pm

The Python wrote:Looks pretty good Gio! I wanted to do this but ninja'd

Giovanniland wrote:Horrified by the December 2012 coup perpetrated by Empire against the Kemetic Republic of Osiris, accomplished by Dalimbar's tricking of the United Defenders League into believing that Osiris was being attacked by someone else so that the defenders would come in to protect the elected government, but instead they actually aided Dalimbar and Neo Kervoskia to seize the Delegate seat for twelve hours each; this resulted in the two nations soon flying Empire's flag to reveal their true colors and betray the Council of Ma'at, the regional security council of which they were members before the coup, and then proceeding to conduct a purge of over 500 Osiran residents until being unseated;

If I understand what happened here, I think Empire ended up giving up on the coup for OOC reasons before it could succeed? I might be wrong though..


Thanks for the comment!

From my research the coup was supposed to last only 12 hours under NK, but MadJack (the deposed delegate) missed update so it lasted for 12 more hours with Dali as delegate. They did manage to eject 500 nations during those 24 hours, and due to the delay there were plans to continue but they were talked out of it. I wouldn't say they gave up though, since the initial plan was fulfilled.
Last edited by Giovanniland on Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Python » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:12 pm

Giovanniland wrote:
The Python wrote:Looks pretty good Gio! I wanted to do this but ninja'd


If I understand what happened here, I think Empire ended up giving up on the coup for OOC reasons before it could succeed? I might be wrong though..


Thanks for the comment!

From my research the coup was supposed to last only 12 hours under NK, but MadJack (the deposed delegate) missed update so it lasted for 12 more hours with Dali as delegate. They did manage to eject 500 nations during those 24 hours, and due to the delay there were plans to continue but they were talked out of it. I wouldn't say they gave up though, since the initial plan was fulfilled.

Yeah, I was sure I had missed something :P
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Postby Zukchiva » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:44 pm

First of all, full support for the nominee. This one has been a long-time coming.

developed a plan to discredit their opponent Emperor Matthuis in the February 2007 delegate elections, by enlisting outsiders to endorse that nation, have it pass Delegate Great Bights Mum in endorsements, and thus appear like Emperor Matthuis couped the region, therefore shifting public opinion to vote for Chodean Kal, all while also convincing the same outsiders to vote and influence the election's result to make sure Chodean Kal would be elected;
This reads a little bit chunkily, IMO. Its good in content, but I think it needs to have the flow of words improved somehow.

I can propose an alternate wording if you want, too lazy rn :x

supported Emperor Matthuis' coup in October 2007 who used the North Pacifican delegacy as a platform to eject all of its endorsers and briefly remove Kandarin as the Delegate of the Rejected Realms; as well as Lewis and Clark's (Westwind) coup in January 2008, in which Chodean Kal served as Lord Marshal General in the Crimson Order that replaced the elected government, aiding in the Crimson Order's foreign affairs, military, strategy, and infiltration of opposition;
May just be me but I'm not sure if it's a good idea to add the part about Emperor Matthuis's coup. Not the worst thing to add in there of course, but feels a bit weird without specifying if Dali did much to help out that effort, or what Dali did for that coup. Anyone can support a coup- but did Dali do anything substantial for it?

Besides those two things... honestly no feedback. I love it. XD
Last edited by Zukchiva on Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Giovanniland » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:06 am

Thanks for the comment Zukchiva, I think both your proposed changes are good. The first one is just a matter of wording that item better so it shouldn't be hard, as for the second one I'll check my sources to be more specific about what exactly Dali did to help Emperor Matthuis. Hopefully those edits will come soon.
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:11 am

Dali’s well overdue for a Condemn. First read through is very favourable - obviously I will get back to you with a more detailed critique as soon as I can.
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Postby Omnicontrol » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:58 am

Doesn't anyone see these are commendable? :eyebrow:

Well, jokes aside, yeah. Good draft.
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Postby Arpasia » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:01 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Dali’s well overdue for a Condemn. First read through is very favourable - obviously I will get back to you with a more detailed critique as soon as I can.

Nevertheless, the draft opened my eyes to the Great Dali
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:08 am

Arpasia wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Dali’s well overdue for a Condemn. First read through is very favourable - obviously I will get back to you with a more detailed critique as soon as I can.

Nevertheless, the draft opened my eyes to the Great Dali

Not sure what you mean by that. The nominee has been a staple in gameplay and are condemnable.
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Postby Giovanniland » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:42 pm

Giovanniland wrote:Thanks for the comment Zukchiva, I think both your proposed changes are good. The first one is just a matter of wording that item better so it shouldn't be hard, as for the second one I'll check my sources to be more specific about what exactly Dali did to help Emperor Matthuis. Hopefully those edits will come soon.

Update: both edits have been done. In the election clause, I tried to make the sentence flow better while still retaining the important content, so do let me know if this version is indeed better or if I need to make more changes. As for the clause mentioning Emperor Matthuis' coup, I did some more research on it: it turns out that Dali colluded with Neo Kervoskia (who later worked together with Dali on the TEP and Osiris coups) so that NK would publicly support Emperor Matthuis while Dali aided the opposition, but they privately played both sides against the middle. Of course, the goal was to cause turmoil in TNP (and later in TRR), so I think that lines up with the other evil actions and is worth mentioning in the proposal.
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Postby Wayneactia » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:21 pm

Meh... I could go either way on this I suppose. Has Dali done anything in the last decade that could be mentioned? If these acts are so atrocious they require a condemnation why has it taken damn near 11 years to get around to it?

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Postby Giovanniland » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:39 pm

Wayneactia wrote:Meh... I could go either way on this I suppose. Has Dali done anything in the last decade that could be mentioned? If these acts are so atrocious they require a condemnation why has it taken damn near 11 years to get around to it?

The Osiris and TSP happenings did technically happen in the last decade, although I do admit there's nothing later than 2012. Dali has more or less semi-retired from active gameplay since then; I say semi because he has acted on a few positions (like TWP Speaker) recently, though they aren't condemnable.

As for the other part, there have been three people who drafted it before: Abacathea (2013), Ghostfox (2019), and Bormiar (2019/20), although Bormiar's draft (which was oddly erased by them later it seems) was an extension of Ghostfox's one. Probably there have been others who drafted privately or at least had the idea but it just never came to fruition, as all the drafters mentioned above went inactive. Of course that doesn't mean Dalimbar isn't relevant - it has just been an unfortunate chain of events regarding their condemnation until now.
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Postby ROM » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:55 pm

"oh wow you are tackling the cursed SC proposal nice knowing you gio"

Nah but seriously looks solid enough I suppose. Just don't go inactive before it's ready to go :(
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Postby A Bloodred Moon » Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:18 pm

Giovanniland wrote:The Security Council,

Introducing Dalimbar as a nation that not only actively undermined the sovereignty of various regions throughout several years, but also encouraged other despicable nations to do the same;

Alarmed by Dalimbar's repeated subversion of the North Pacific's legitimate government, via the satellite state of Chodean Kal, where they:
  • won the February 2007 delegate elections against Emperor Matthuis (EM) through a mischievous plan, in which outsiders not only manipulated the election by voting for Chodean Kal but also made EM pass Great Bights Mum in endorsements, thus appearing like EM couped the region and successfully shifting the public's opinion;
  • refused to leave once their delegate term was over as mandated by regional laws, instead staying on the seat for three more weeks until August 2007 and blaming regional stagnation as the reason for this villainous action, as well as dissolving the regional government and banjecting many long term residents during the illegitimate part of their delegacy;
  • sowed chaos in the region when EM couped it in October 2007, during which Neo Kervoskia and Chodean Kal colluded to publicly support the couping side and the opposition respectively while privately playing both sides against the middle, and later encouraged EM to use the delegacy as a platform to eject all of its endorsers and briefly remove Kandarin as the Delegate of the Rejected Realms;
  • aided Lewis and Clark's (Westwind) coup of January 2008, in which Chodean Kal served as Lord Marshal General in the Crimson Order that replaced the elected government, leading the Crimson Order's foreign affairs, military, strategy, and infiltration of opposition;

The part on Emperor Matthuis’ coup reads confusingly. Something about supporting two sides, and playing them against a middle side?

Disturbed that Dalimbar used the alias of Lady Anastasia to create Empire alongside Biyah (Lord Rahl), Minineenee (Lady Phedre), and Neo Kervoskia (Lord Griffin), serving within the Imperial Council in the roles of Lady of the Shadows and Coordinator of Consolidation and Expansion to manage Empire's intelligence and foreign affairs respectively, ultimately contributing to the success of this notorious group that enacted multiple coups within several large regions;

I believe it’s the Empire rather than just Empire.

Appalled by Lady Anastasia's contributions to Empire's coup of the East Pacific in August 2008, during which they created propaganda against the natives, declared war on almost all Feeders and Sinkers, and nearly convinced Delegate The Faeyas of the West Pacific to sign a treaty recognizing Empire as the legitimate East Pacifican government, all while their masters in Dalimbar held the position of Magister in the couped government and continued to serve as Delegate of Equilism until Lady Anastasia's identity was uncovered, demonstrating Dalimbar's atrocious ability of keeping secret identities separate to trick the international community for months;

“The couped government” might perhaps be reworded to “overthrown”?

Horrified by the December 2012 coup perpetrated by Empire against the Kemetic Republic of Osiris, accomplished by Dalimbar's tricking of the United Defenders League into believing that Osiris was being attacked by someone else so that the defenders would come in to protect the elected government, but instead they actually aided Dalimbar and Neo Kervoskia to seize the Delegate seat for twelve hours each; this resulted in the two nations soon flying Empire's flag to reveal their true colors and betray the Council of Ma'at, the regional security council of which they were members before the coup, and then proceeding to conduct a purge of over 500 Osiran residents until being unseated;

“Someone else” may be changed to “a third party”? That reads somewhat more formal to my mind.

That’s what stood out to me on a first read, good luck with this.
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Postby Giovanniland » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:09 am

A Bloodred Moon wrote:The part on Emperor Matthuis’ coup reads confusingly. Something about supporting two sides, and playing them against a middle side?

"Playing both sides against the middle" is actually an expression meaning that one manipulated the two sides for their own gain - there is no middle side. I'll make it clearer if people find it confusing though.

A Bloodred Moon wrote:I believe it’s the Empire rather than just Empire.

Condemn Minineenee uses "Empire" without a "the", so for the sake of consistency I think I'll do the same, even though both uses are common.

As for your other two suggestions I've accepted them.
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Postby Xoriet » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:19 am

Giovanniland wrote:
A Bloodred Moon wrote:The part on Emperor Matthuis’ coup reads confusingly. Something about supporting two sides, and playing them against a middle side?

"Playing both sides against the middle" is actually an expression meaning that one manipulated the two sides for their own gain - there is no middle side. I'll make it clearer if people find it confusing though.

A Bloodred Moon wrote:I believe it’s the Empire rather than just Empire.

Condemn Minineenee uses "Empire" without a "the", so for the sake of consistency I think I'll do the same, even though both uses are common.

As for your other two suggestions I've accepted them.

Technically they've gone by either, so I'm not sure that it really matters which one you choose. The more commonly assigned name is Empire rather than the Empire. If it's a matter of debate, you could ask either Nee or Dali which they prefer.
Last edited by Xoriet on Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Goobergunchia » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:08 pm

Strong support for now, unless there's another coup before you get this submitted. 8)

"The Empire" was the most common usage a decade ago -- I'd be curious when that shifted.
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Postby Aivintis » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:08 pm

In TEP, at least, "the Empire" is how it's been called for a long while.

I have no real comments to add to this other than that it's generally well written and the nominee is definitely deserving of a condemnation.
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Postby Dalimbar » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:45 pm

Howdy, figure this semantics discussion could use no clarification at all but I'll try.

One of the official terms of the government of TEP was "Empire of the East Pacific", shortened to The Empire. The membership of that government identified our regime as "The Empire", especially as we did have plans to hold multiple GCRs under the umbrella of The Empire.

Particularly during the KRO/OFO1-eras and subsequent periods of time, I've noticed "the" being dropped more from Empire as people used it as a term for a political movement or whatever involving myself, or in a context such as Empire/Rahl.

Both are fine.
Last edited by Dalimbar on Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Dalimbar,
Delegate / Pharaoh (Ret.) of Osiris
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Wickedly evil people
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 395
Founded: Jul 14, 2004
Father Knows Best State

Postby Wickedly evil people » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:29 am

I thought it commendable to over throw the louts in The East Pacific.


and it was no coup taking over for Faeyas, she was hamstrung by alleged 'democratic' subversives that needed to be put into their place, that happened and we in TWP got a new Delegate pledged to the supremacy of the Delegate in game.


a win for the West Pacific and a win for Nationstates to eliminate one more shamocracy.
Eli

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Aivintis
Bureaucrat
 
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Founded: Nov 11, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Aivintis » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:48 pm

Wickedly evil people wrote:I thought it commendable to over throw the louts in The East Pacific.

Right you are. (<-- official statement of TEP government)
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Praeceps
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Feb 08, 2016
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Praeceps » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:35 pm

This is well written and a long time coming. I do suggest changing mischevious to something else as I think it carries the wrong sort of connotation compared to what else you have here.
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Giovanniland
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Aug 10, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Giovanniland » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:25 am

Praeceps wrote:This is well written and a long time coming. I do suggest changing mischevious to something else as I think it carries the wrong sort of connotation compared to what else you have here.

I see what you mean now. Does "nefarious" work better?
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The Kingdom of Giovanniland - Giovannilandian Artwork Ministry - The Collection Collection Thread

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Xoriet
Ambassador
 
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Founded: Jun 08, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Xoriet » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:26 am

Giovanniland wrote:
Praeceps wrote:This is well written and a long time coming. I do suggest changing mischevious to something else as I think it carries the wrong sort of connotation compared to what else you have here.

I see what you mean now. Does "nefarious" work better?

Nefarious sounds a bit dramatic. Heinous or sinister might work, though.
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