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Is it feasible to separate rural and urban America?

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GuessTheAltAccount
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Is it feasible to separate rural and urban America?

Postby GuessTheAltAccount » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:47 am

So I was recently thinking about the past election, and the way things finally started to swing for Biden once the city-dweller votes were counted.

It reminded me of this article. However, this brings to mind a tradeoff. The risk of denying rural Americans what they want is a Trump victory in 2024. The risk of giving rural Americans what they want is that you teach them that voting for demagogues is a useful tactic in getting their way, incentivizing them to vote for some future demagogue the next time they don't get their way. This would only give us more demagogues in the long run.

Therefore, we need to start looking into alternatives before 2024. What about the idea of separating the USA into rural!USA and a bunch of independent city-states? Border/coastal cities would no longer need to be held back by rural opinion on migrant labour, or on trade with the rest of the world, but what about landlocked cities? Would they just be limited to travel/trade by plane, or would rail also be an option? How would that work? Could the interior of the train be counted as international territory, with no one allowed to leave the train until it arrives at its destination, and surveillance cameras on the exterior of the train so that visual of a person leaping out of the train to sneak into rural America could be handed over to them if they want to identify the "illegal immigrants" they're supposedly so worried about?
Last edited by GuessTheAltAccount on Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:17 am

The long and short answer is the same: No. It is not feasible without devastating lines being drawn that would make the Indian partition look like a civil breakup.
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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:24 am

Ya that's what the civil war decided. States/regions cannot secede.
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USS Monitor
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Postby USS Monitor » Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:56 am

No, the borders would be too awkward.

Also, you would create massive problems for rural black populations that have a different outlook than the white Trumpist types. There might be some that you could just bundle off with the nearest city, but that would not always be practical.

Sometimes people just need to hash out their differences through the democratic process, and not everyone will get exactly what they wanted.
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GuessTheAltAccount
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Postby GuessTheAltAccount » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:04 am

USS Monitor wrote:No, the borders would be too awkward.

Also, you would create massive problems for rural black populations that have a different outlook than the white Trumpist types. There might be some that you could just bundle off with the nearest city, but that would not always be practical.

Sometimes people just need to hash out their differences through the democratic process, and not everyone will get exactly what they wanted.

What if next time Trump just scraps democracy altogether? Is there any way to save parts of America after that, or will they need to secede before it happens?
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Broader Confederate States
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Postby Broader Confederate States » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:14 am

Urban/rural is stupid and I'm furious that it's as suggested as much as it is. Ask a cotton farmer in Arizona to decide water policy for a factory worker in Michigan. Go ahead, I'm excited to see the no doubt great plan. Bioregion is the pinnacle, but barring that, at least go by state borders that share a rough common identity. Rural people don't necessarily mind cities as long as it's their cities. I might constantly slag off Nashville but at the end of the day I'd rather it have power over me than New York or Los Angeles. At least it's close enough to actually have a clue as to what its citizens need, since it's not literally thousands of miles away. Or hell, take a page out of Europe's book and turn the US into a confederation. Consider how well France and Germany get along compared to Montana and California.

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Ya that's what the civil war decided. States/regions cannot secede.

Misconception. They cannot secede unilaterally, but Texas v. White specifically outlined that they are allowed to leave in the event of a revolution, or with Congress' approval.

Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, on April 12, 1879, wrote:The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.
Last edited by Broader Confederate States on Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:32 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Wormfodder Delivery
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Postby Wormfodder Delivery » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:18 am

Maybe implement multi-party winner systems instead?
Would allow for rural minorities to at least still have a say on the local level.
But that would require unscrewing the mess that is the US political system, so it's more of a pipe dream alas.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:21 am

No it’s not feasible. Look at the county by county map of the last election and you’ll see it’s next to impossible.

New York is a good example of this. You have several blue counties upstate. How are they supposed to be separated from the rest of the state.
Last edited by San Lumen on Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:26 pm

Splitting up the US has been and will always be a terrible idea no matter how it is proposed.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:29 pm

Wormfodder Delivery wrote:Maybe implement multi-party winner systems instead?
Would allow for rural minorities to at least still have a say on the local level.
But that would require unscrewing the mess that is the US political system, so it's more of a pipe dream alas.


What sort of system are you envisioning?

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Drew Durrnil
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Postby Drew Durrnil » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:30 pm

no, this is a bad idea
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:30 pm

What would happen to the suburbs?
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:32 pm

Neutraligon wrote:What would happen to the suburbs?

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Necroghastia
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Postby Necroghastia » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:32 pm

how would you even define this
like how urban is urban enough
and that's not even getting into the even shittier idea of separating cities into whole spearate fuckin countries
like, the hell are people that live in rural areas and commute to cities for work gonna do
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Deacarsia
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Is it feasible to separate rural and urban America?

Postby Deacarsia » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:35 pm

I think that this would be a good idea if possible, but I do not know if it is feasible.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:36 pm

Deacarsia wrote:I think that this would be a good idea if possible, but I do not know if it is feasible.


It’s not good idea nor is it feasible. There are far to many problems with this idea to list.
Last edited by San Lumen on Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:39 pm

No
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:42 pm

Neutraligon wrote:What would happen to the suburbs?

finally, a perfect opportunity to abolish the suburbs once and for all
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Cetacea
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Postby Cetacea » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:46 pm

How About - Yankee States, New York City, The Corn belt, The South, Florida, The Cowboy States, The Rockies, California, Alaska

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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm

Kowani wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:What would happen to the suburbs?

finally, a perfect opportunity to abolish the suburbs once and for all

But I prefer suburbs over urban and rural living >:(
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Native of The East Pacific and Northern California
Opinions and Puppets
If you want a mental image of me: straight(?) white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

I don't think the political compass is
fully accurate, but here are my results:

X-Axis: -5.38
Y-Axis: -2.62

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.
Stellar Colonies is a loose confederacy comprised from most of the human-settled parts of the galaxy.

Ida Station is the only Confederate member state permitted to join the WA.

Add 1200 years for the date I use.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:35 pm

Stellar Colonies wrote:
Kowani wrote:finally, a perfect opportunity to abolish the suburbs once and for all

But I prefer suburbs over urban and rural living >:(

there are bad takes and then there are bad takes
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
Minutes since Gavin Newsom signed SB9 and SB10 and I already see the bulldozers rolling into the single family neighborhoods outside my window, homeowners being forced to live in towers by hair gelled Gavintroopers
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
Headline of the day: California abolishes single-family zoning

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The Temple of the Computer
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Postby The Temple of the Computer » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:37 pm

Kowani wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:But I prefer suburbs over urban and rural living >:(

there are bad takes and then there are bad takes

Wow, I wonder who really, really, REALLY dislikes Suburbs.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:41 pm

The Temple of the Computer wrote:
Kowani wrote:there are bad takes and then there are bad takes

Wow, I wonder who really, really, REALLY dislikes Suburbs.

I don't know, I mean, I've been driving Subur ... wait, you mean ... never mind.

I do get tired of these "Should we break up the United States?" threads. Maybe we should concentrate on finding a way to work together as a country, which we have done before, rather than trying to find ways to keep people we don't like away from us.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:46 pm

The Temple of the Computer wrote:
Kowani wrote:there are bad takes and then there are bad takes

Wow, I wonder who really, really, REALLY dislikes Suburbs.

i live in one
it's hell
(also i have many sociological and political objections to suburbia as polity and cultural unit but those come later)

Farnhamia wrote:
The Temple of the Computer wrote:Wow, I wonder who really, really, REALLY dislikes Suburbs.

I don't know, I mean, I've been driving Subur ... wait, you mean ... never mind.

I do get tired of these "Should we break up the United States?" threads. Maybe we should concentrate on finding a way to work together as a country, which we have done before, rather than trying to find ways to keep people we don't like away from us.

nonsense! we'll just take our problems, and push them somewhere else!
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
Minutes since Gavin Newsom signed SB9 and SB10 and I already see the bulldozers rolling into the single family neighborhoods outside my window, homeowners being forced to live in towers by hair gelled Gavintroopers
Updating Trackers! How Congress votes, what Americans believe, and world leader approvals
Headline of the day: California abolishes single-family zoning

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The Temple of the Computer
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Temple of the Computer » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:47 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Temple of the Computer wrote:Wow, I wonder who really, really, REALLY dislikes Suburbs.

i live in one
it's hell
(also i have many sociological and political objections to suburbia as polity and cultural unit but those come later)

Could you kindly explain as to why you hate Suburbs?
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