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[SUBMITTED] On The Uselessness of SC Declarations

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Solaryia
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[SUBMITTED] On The Uselessness of SC Declarations

Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:15 am

The Security Council,

Defining, for the purposes of this resolution, a Declaration as a type of resolution to express an opinion or position held by the majority of the Security Council.

Noting that Security Council Declarations have no tangible effect on member nations, and if passed only serves to affirm an opinion already held by a majority of nations within the Council, therefore making the very Declaration redundant.

Recognizing that due to an influx of Security Council Declarations, the Security Council may be delayed in passing other types of resolutions that will actually have consequences for its member nations.

Hereby declares that Security Council Declarations are utterly useless, and have no effect on voting member nations.
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Postby Hanovereich » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:18 am

This may be getting close to creating legislation in a declaration, and doesn’t explain why this is only for ‘voting’ nations:

Solaryia wrote:Hereby declares that Security Council Declarations are utterly useless, and have no effect on voting member nations.


Declarations are probably by far the most consequential SC category we have:

Solaryia wrote:Recognizing that due to an influx of Security Council Declarations, the Security Council may be delayed in passing other types of resolutions that will actually have consequences for its member nations.


And I don’t think you get why we have Declarations:

Solaryia wrote:
Noting that Security Council Declarations have no tangible effect on member nations, and if passed only serves to affirm an opinion already held by a majority of nations within the Council, therefore making the very Declaration redundant.
Last edited by Hanovereich on Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Untecna » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:18 am

Why would you already submit this? You should get feedback on the draft first, and then submit it after some time.

And to state my opinion, I oppose this resolution.
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:28 am

Untecna wrote:Why would you already submit this? You should get feedback on the draft first, and then submit it after some time.

And to state my opinion, I oppose this resolution.


"Because, we value efficiency, and efficiency doesn't mean getting caught up in WA bureaucracy for the next 3 months while people argue about clauses."
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:44 am

Hanovereich wrote:This may be getting close to creating legislation in a declaration, and doesn’t explain why this is only for ‘voting’ nations:
Declarations are probably by far the most consequential SC category we have:


"Because, if a nation votes in favour of a Security Council Declaration, that nation would presumably already hold the opinion stated by the Declaration correct? If a Declaration passess, the whole point is merely that the the majority of the Security Council holds said opinion. It doesn't have any other effects."

Hanovereich wrote:And I don’t think you get why we have Declarations:


"You're right, I don't see why the WA should waste their time on these."
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Postby Hanovereich » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:48 am

Solaryia wrote:
Hanovereich wrote:This may be getting close to creating legislation in a declaration, and doesn’t explain why this is only for ‘voting’ nations:
Declarations are probably by far the most consequential SC category we have:


"Because, if a nation votes in favour of a Security Council Declaration, that nation would presumably already hold the opinion stated by the Declaration correct? If a Declaration passess, the whole point is merely that the the majority of the Security Council holds said opinion. It doesn't have any other effects."

Hanovereich wrote:And I don’t think you get why we have Declarations:


"You're right, I don't see why the WA should waste their time on these."


Please acknowledge my legislating note.

Declarations are there to show that the SC has an opinion on things, like a war or music contest. They are also there to point nations in the right direction, like with ideologies, and the GA doesn’t allow us to ban ideologies. So they have a more useful purpose than just saying ‘this is our opinion’.
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:10 am

Hanovereich wrote:Declarations are there to show that the SC has an opinion on things, like a war or music contest.

Hanovereich wrote:So they have a more useful purpose than just saying ‘this is our opinion’



Hanovereich wrote:Please acknowledge my legislating note.

"This may be getting close to creating legislation in a declaration,"

"Why is that? It's merely a declaration that declarations have little to no effects on member nations, its not legislating anything."

Hanovereich wrote:Declarations are there to show that the SC has an opinion on things, like a war or music contest. They are also there to point nations in the right direction, like with ideologies,

"But if a declaration passes, doesn't that mean that the majority of nations in the WA already hold that opinion? It would just stating the obvious."

Hanovereich wrote:and the GA doesn’t allow us to ban ideologies.

"Thank goodness it doesn't, that sounds like a very serious breach of both civil rights and national sovereignty."
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Postby Hanovereich » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:14 am

Solaryia wrote:
Hanovereich wrote:Declarations are there to show that the SC has an opinion on things, like a war or music contest.

Hanovereich wrote:So they have a more useful purpose than just saying ‘this is our opinion’



Hanovereich wrote:Please acknowledge my legislating note.

"This may be getting close to creating legislation in a declaration,"

"Why is that? It's merely a declaration that declarations have little to no effects on member nations, its not legislating anything."

Hanovereich wrote:Declarations are there to show that the SC has an opinion on things, like a war or music contest. They are also there to point nations in the right direction, like with ideologies,

"But if a declaration passes, doesn't that mean that the majority of nations in the WA already hold that opinion? It would just stating the obvious."

Hanovereich wrote:and the GA doesn’t allow us to ban ideologies.

"Thank goodness it doesn't, that sounds like a very serious breach of both civil rights and national sovereignty."


“Has no effect” (last clause) makes it seem like you are banning the use of declarations, and declaring them null and void.

It would be stating the obvious, yes, but how else do you see “Ah, 5,000+ WA members approve this!”

Edit: I just realised what you meant by the last clause. Needs some rewording?
Last edited by Hanovereich on Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:44 am

Hanovereich wrote:“Has no effect” (last clause) makes it seem like you are banning the use of declarations, and declaring them null and void.

It would be stating the obvious, yes, but how else do you see “Ah, 5,000+ WA members approve this!”

Edit: I just realised what you meant by the last clause. Needs some rewording?


“Well there are many other ways to view that, but the primary point is still that it merely clarifies an opinion, and doesn’t do anything besides that. In addition I understand how it can be seen as legislative, but the use of the word “Declares” should clarify it to other WA members."
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:22 am

Don't start titles with "On".

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Postby Unibot III » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:34 am

Is the resolution implying declarations have an impact on non-voting WA members? :p
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:32 pm

Unibot III wrote:Is the resolution implying declarations have an impact on non-voting WA members? :p

“Nope, it’s implying that declarations don’t have an impact at all!”
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:35 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:Don't start titles with "On".

“On is a perfectly nice word, don’t be rude to it.”
“But to be more serious there was a word limit to the title and I couldn’t fit anything else in without abbreviating Security Council, which I didn’t want to do.”
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Postby Hanovereich » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:37 pm

What other SC categories, that have more consequences than this, did you have in mind?
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:45 pm

Hanovereich wrote:What other SC categories, that have more consequences than this, did you have in mind?

“Well to be perfectly honest, most of what the Security Council does doesn’t particularly have any consequences, but I found Declarations to be especially uselesss. At least Commendations and Condemnations give a shiny badge to whoever the WA seems worthy.”
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Postby Hanovereich » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:46 pm

So there are no categories that, quote, "will actually have consequences for its member nations"? A resolution that says the SC's stance on a particular subject is arguably more consequential than one that lets you show off to the world.
Last edited by Hanovereich on Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:51 pm

Hanovereich wrote:So there are no categories that, quote, "will actually have consequences for its member nations"?

“Well, liberations can actually assist to liberate regions from various belligerent parties, but this Declaration only declares that declarations are useless. If there’s enough popular demand, I’ll be happy to make a Declaration on the Uselessness of the Security Council itself.”
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Postby Outer Sparta » Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:42 pm

I mean, these are all Captain Obvious arguments. Nothing really groundbreaking, eh? It's like Michael Owen's punditry in saying that a team who scores more goals wins.
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:06 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:I mean, these are all Captain Obvious arguments. Nothing really groundbreaking, eh? It's like Michael Owen's punditry in saying that a team who scores more goals wins.

“Exactly, so there’s little reason not to support the passage of this Declaration. It will finally state that Declarations are have little to no effect in writing.”
Last edited by Solaryia on Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Outer Sparta » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:16 pm

Solaryia wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:I mean, these are all Captain Obvious arguments. Nothing really groundbreaking, eh? It's like Michael Owen's punditry in saying that a team who scores more goals wins.

“Exactly, so there’s little reason not to support the passage of this Declaration. It will finally state that Declarations are have little to no effect in writing.”

Sure go ahead, but I'm not supporting a declaration declaring declarations being useless. It defeats its own purpose.
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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:34 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:Sure go ahead, but I'm not supporting a declaration declaring declarations being useless. It defeats its own purpose.

“Well, we have to clarify that they have no effects on member nations somehow, this is just the most effective way to state an opinion without any legislation.”
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:36 pm

Solaryia wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:Don't start titles with "On".

“On is a perfectly nice word, don’t be rude to it.”
“But to be more serious there was a word limit to the title and I couldn’t fit anything else in without abbreviating Security Council, which I didn’t want to do.”

Your title has 51 characters.

"Security Council Declarations are Useless" 41 characters
"Security Council Declaration Uselessness" 40 characters
"Security Council Declaration Uselessness" 40 characters
"Against Security Council Declarations" 37 characters
"Uselessness of Security Council Declarations" 44 characters
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Solaryia » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:57 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:"Security Council Declarations are Useless" 41 characters
"Security Council Declaration Uselessness" 40 characters
"Security Council Declaration Uselessness" 40 characters
"Against Security Council Declarations" 37 characters
"Uselessness of Security Council Declarations" 44 characters


“I believe the use of the word “on” is perfectly fitting for this Declaration, as the word “on” can be used as a function word to indicate a subject of discussion or consideration. I would also like to state that there is no precedent for how Security Council Declarations are formatted, given they were introduced approximately 5 days ago.”
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