Imperial Confederalism - Possible?

[Fahran]

If a new, global version of the Hellenistic Empire was revived where each ideological and ethnoreligious camp that today exist, each get allotted one or more City States, and some type of imperial version of the pan-anarchist "NAP" was worked out, would you support it?

The Hellenistic Empire, as I understand it, refers to the empires of Alexander the Great and the Diadochi in the most narrow and traditional sense. These polities were monarchies that relied on a blending of older local administrative bureaucracies and structures with Hellenistic culture and sociopolitical and military elites. They often did not adopt frameworks similar to the poleis that enjoyed their heyday prior to the ascent of Philip II of Macedon. More broadly, I suppose one could characterize the Roman Empire, the Pontic Empire, Armenia, and even Carthage as Hellenistic. Antigonicd Macedonia, Carthage, and the Pontic Empire under Mithridates VI, particularly following his forays into western Anatolia and mainland Greece would have included largely independent poleis or cities, I suppose. They weren't anarchists who observed the NAP though.

Basically like a political quarantine, anyone that agitated against the policies of the current City State they live in or was born in, would have to shut up or move to a City State where their preferred system was already practiced, unless the City State has some type of democratic system where agitation was allowed within a multi-party system. This irrespective of previous national borders or dominant language in any territory.

Why can't we simply storm the Cadmeia and force the Spartiates to surrender? Then restore Theban democracy and reform the Beoetian League in open defiance of the Lacedaemonian yoke?

Some related ideas:
People who can't form organized City States would have to be sent to something akin to a wilderness preservation I presume, where they can do whatever they want, as long as they don't breed and don't come back to civilization.

What if people would like to form systems of social and political organization that don't resemble poleis - which, I must stress, were not quite what one might intuitively think when they read the word city-state? A poleis encompassed a prominent, often fortified urban center, surrounding hinterlands, and potentially several demes, villages, or communities. As an example, Sparta wasn't a singular city. It was more a grouping of several villages that managed to dominate an extensive area of the Peloponessian Peninsula, and was the largest polis of antiquity.

The need for some imperial infrastructure (like highways between City States) and an imperial central bank to collect taxes in, taxes would only be used for a common defense and maintaining said infrastructure, apart from that City States raise funds for everything else locally.

Delian League 2: Electric Boogaloo?

The possible need for an imperial capital and official imperial language to issue imperial documents in.

This is beginning to sound a lot like the leagues formed in antiquity. That said, one important question to ask is why we would shift from modern civic states or nation-states back to confederacies or leagues that don't serve any concrete political or social purpose?

The reason I ask is because I see this as the only somewhat peaceful solution to the Western political crisis, to avoid civil wars and such.

What crisis are we discussing exactly?

[Suriyanakhon]

-snip-

Ngl I'm terrified of the idea of you having your own state.

Jewish horse girl hordes are the new Mongols.

[Fahran]

Ngl I'm terrified of the idea of you having your own state.

Jewish horse girl hordes are the new Mongols.

There's a reason Khazaria is Best Russia.

[Temple State]

If a new, global version of the Hellenistic Empire was revived where each ideological and ethnoreligious camp that today exist, each get allotted one or more City States, and some type of imperial version of the pan-anarchist "NAP" was worked out, would you support it?

The Hellenistic Empire, as I understand it, refers to the empires of Alexander the Great and the Diadochi in the most narrow and traditional sense. These polities were monarchies that relied on a blending of older local administrative bureaucracies and structures with Hellenistic culture and sociopolitical and military elites. They often did not adopt frameworks similar to the poleis that enjoyed their heyday prior to the ascent of Philip II of Macedon. More broadly, I suppose one could characterize the Roman Empire, the Pontic Empire, Armenia, and even Carthage as Hellenistic. Antigonicd Macedonia, Carthage, and the Pontic Empire under Mithridates VI, particularly following his forays into western Anatolia and mainland Greece would have included largely independent poleis or cities, I suppose. They weren't anarchists who observed the NAP though.

Basically like a political quarantine, anyone that agitated against the policies of the current City State they live in or was born in, would have to shut up or move to a City State where their preferred system was already practiced, unless the City State has some type of democratic system where agitation was allowed within a multi-party system. This irrespective of previous national borders or dominant language in any territory.

Why can't we simply storm the Cadmeia and force the Spartiates to surrender? Then restore Theban democracy and reform the Beoetian League in open defiance of the Lacedaemonian yoke?

Some related ideas:
People who can't form organized City States would have to be sent to something akin to a wilderness preservation I presume, where they can do whatever they want, as long as they don't breed and don't come back to civilization.

What if people would like to form systems of social and political organization that don't resemble poleis - which, I must stress, were not quite what one might intuitively think when they read the word city-state? A poleis encompassed a prominent, often fortified urban center, surrounding hinterlands, and potentially several demes, villages, or communities. As an example, Sparta wasn't a singular city. It was more a grouping of several villages that managed to dominate an extensive area of the Peloponessian Peninsula, and was the largest polis of antiquity.

The need for some imperial infrastructure (like highways between City States) and an imperial central bank to collect taxes in, taxes would only be used for a common defense and maintaining said infrastructure, apart from that City States raise funds for everything else locally.

Delian League 2: Electric Boogaloo?

The possible need for an imperial capital and official imperial language to issue imperial documents in.

This is beginning to sound a lot like the leagues formed in antiquity. That said, one important question to ask is why we would shift from modern civic states or nation-states back to confederacies or leagues that don't serve any concrete political or social purpose?

The reason I ask is because I see this as the only somewhat peaceful solution to the Western political crisis, to avoid civil wars and such.

What crisis are we discussing exactly?

It obviously doesn't need to imitate these older empires to a t and I never said that. You can follow along in the thread and see that I also said urban environments for each is not a must either.

As for the why and the crisis I speak of? Modern liberal democracies are becoming ungovernable is why. They pretend to be fairly unified polities when in fact they aren't, as was very evident from the last American election, but it looks almost the same everywhere in similar system around election years, even without civilians owning guns. Mediocre politicians expressing mediocre and compromised politics where nobody can see their entire vision through until some strongman comes along and dominates the political landscape long enough. Instead of keeping up the pretend game, the fairly obvious solution is to let people govern their local territories the way they think is best, with an imperial peacekeeping force to oversee the transitions and to calculate the needed space for each demographic unit.

On top of that, the thinly veiled plutocracy that dominates this system and the unending need it feels to self-propagate and spread itself all over the world like a cancer only to open new markets and "liberate" people according to a very specific set of metrics that most people outside the West seems to frown upon.

[Ifreann]

So let me see if I understand the idea here. On the basis of my political beliefs, I would be kidnapped, taken away from my home and family and friends, and transported to a very large concentration camp with people of similar beliefs. We would be largely left to our own devices, but some imperial force would maintain our segregation from other people and would also conscript us as and when they felt the need. We would be allowed to transfer to a different camp by changing our political beliefs, but attempts to resist this system of incarcerating the whole world would be met with overwhelming military force.

And this is meant to bring peace? Because it seems to me that basically everyone would want to overthrow this empire, and would have no difficulty in doing so. It would only take a few cooperating city states, a little subversion of conscripts, and before long the emperor would be dead and we'd all just go home and reconstitute our old communities.

You don't understand it.

I rather suspect that I do understand it, you just dislike my characterisation of it, but feel free to correct me on anything I've gotten wrong about your idea.

[Genivaria]

You don't understand it.

I rather suspect that I do understand it, you just dislike my characterisation of it, but feel free to correct me on anything I've gotten wrong about your idea.

A defense more than 'you just don't get it' seems needed.

[Fahran]

It obviously doesn't need to imitate these older empires to a t and I never said that. You can follow along in the thread and see that I also said urban environments for each is not a must either.

It was more of an objection to the framing of your argument than anything. If I had to guess, you're proposing parallel nation-states loosely united in a confederacy under a sovereign monarch, a system that most resembles a more devolved Austria-Hungary, a more devolved United Kingdom, or the Ottoman Empire with a more pronounced millet system. Really though, it just sounds like spicier Hoppe. That said, there's a reason why only one of these polities remains an option. Political systems reflect political culture and political culture reflects the ideology and social factors present in a given time and place.

You don't need a confederacy if you can build a consensus sufficient to legitimize a federation or centralized union. You also don't need nationalism if the state is embodied in the person of a sovereign monarch who possesses divine right.

As for the why and the crisis I speak of? Modern liberal democracies are becoming ungovernable is why. They pretend to be fairly unified polities when in fact they aren't, as was very evident from the last American election, but it looks almost the same everywhere in similar system around election years, even without civilians owning guns. Mediocre politicians expressing mediocre and compromised politics where nobody can see their entire vision through until some strongman comes along and dominates the political landscape long enough. Instead of keeping up the pretend game, the fairly obvious solution is to let people govern their local territories the way they think is best, with an imperial peacekeeping force to oversee the transitions and to calculate the needed space for each demographic unit.

The solution to that problem, at least in the United States, is more prudent consensus building and a nationalism that cannot be rebuked by the commies, and I should stress that this is a long-term solution that's going to require several decades and generations of sound policy and philosophizing to achieve. I feel like this is an overreaction. Simply address legitimate grievances and YEET the commies and commie-adjacent folks from the discourse - like we do every time a crisis isn't present to keep their terrible ideology relevant. Kinda like the fashies in that regard, really.

You can YEET neoliberalism without adopting this system. Multiple countries have already done so, with differing results based on the systems they've adopted.

On top of that, the thinly veiled plutocracy that dominates this system and the unending need it feels to self-propagate and spread itself all over the world like a cancer only to open new markets and "liberate" people according to a very specific set of metrics that most people outside the West seems to frown upon.

Plutocracy is principally a problem when social elites lack loyalty to their respective communities. If the rich are paying their taxes, patronizing philanthropic causes, and getting conscripted in proportion to what society has given them, I frankly don't care. And, if they're not, the solution is to impose such obligations on them as we would with anyone else. Not whatever this is.

[Fahran]

I rather suspect that I do understand it, you just dislike my characterisation of it, but feel free to correct me on anything I've gotten wrong about your idea.

It sounds rather more Hoppean to me. Essentially, the local Catholics vote you off the island for being a godless socialist. You go to an island with the other godless socialists and hope that they don't vote you off the island for being a horrid Trotskyite or whatever. Apparently, ethnicity and race may also enter into this in some way such that the Anglos might vote me off the island for being so close to America and yet so far from Jesus. And the Mexican-Americans might then choose to vote me off the new island for egregious and unrelenting Judaism and liking Taylor Swift too much. Then I'm stucking hoping for Jewish horse girl island. Sounds chaotic, at least in the initial stages, but not really full-blown gulag or Nazi death camp chaotic. But the big question for me is still this. Why?

[Ifreann]

I will say this, I don't understand why the OP thinks that there would be no political conflict if this "imperial confederalism" came about. Like, which ideologies will be in control of the world's oil fields or other resources? What happens if the primitivists end up in control of the world's cobalt? Or, what if the OP's Fashtown is downstream from Commiegrad and we decide to dam the river? And lots of people's politics just wouldn't be satisfied by there being a place they could live which is governed according to those politics. I imagine the OP already knows this, but lots of people's politics aren't just not fascist, but are anti-fascist. The say-so of the empire isn't going to stop those people from trying to bring down Fashtown. Antifa super soldiers will assassinate your fuhrers regardless of the fact that there are places they can live that aren't fascist.

[Farnhamia]

I’d suggest that you may play too many video games.

The single-lined edginess continues. Continue drinking beer instead of bogging your mind with politics perhaps?

Fact is, this type of system already existed and spanned centuries despite its flaws, as we have clearly stated. All it needs is refining.

*** 10 day ban for flaming ***

[Vikanias]

The single-lined edginess continues. Continue drinking beer instead of bogging your mind with politics perhaps?

Fact is, this type of system already existed and spanned centuries despite its flaws, as we have clearly stated. All it needs is refining.

*** 10 day ban for flaming ***

Ooo, well the guy who thought that there would be no wars or political conflicts in this imperium if it did happen. And other things he said is gone for 10 days. Well that was an end for a saga.

[Greater Bingustan]

Most of these issues have been addressed already. I don't even play HOI4, but I do advise people in power still. You seem a bit jealous or something.
The thing is, the things I have not specifically addressed, empires have addressed in the past. Now, as a rule of thumb here, peaceful solutions are preferable to violent ones. Since we have seen structures like I am proposing, or similar to it, having worked in the past, and all I am really suggesting is the improvements to such structures, you know deep down my suggestion is sound. You are only jealous you didn't think of it first.

oh, you've addressed issues alright, but none of the real important ones that will make or break your system. effectively your solution to these glaring matters of statecraft is "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, and somehow everything will turn out fine." this is why you shouldn't try and play god king. there are simply too many intricacies and complexities to the matter of building civilization anew to simply just throw up your hands and improvise. this will inevitably end up in ruin.

the ultimate issue with your solution is plain to see. you haven't fully thought it through. your plans are not laid well enough. this is the problem that most esoteric political circles have. you can theorize all you please in your ivory tower, but when it comes down to it, you must interact with the boring and mundane aspects of civilization that don't exactly fit into the narrative of your philosophies. taxation, land and resource management, legacy into the future, the actual establishing of your regime, peoples and their cultures, among other things. in other words, you forget that you have to perform rulership and stewardship, which means having to do actual labor and creative thinking to efficiently manage your system and political dynasty.

now, as a rule of thumb here, well-thought-out solutions are better than improvised ones. here's what i'd recommend you meditate on to improve your system:

-solve the geography question. this will have the most long lasting impact into the ages, ergo it must be carefully considered.
-work out a taxation scheme that is both politically neutral and efficient. your central authority will need funds to sustain itself.
-consider how you're going to ensure that the central authority remains true to your vision into the future. you cannot rule as an immortal god king, therefore you must contend with the entropy and uncertainty of the future and your successors. futureproof your designs.
-design mechanisms to ensure that no political actor from the city states can influence the central authority in any way. this will be crucial to ensure that the city states can survive amongst eachother and not subjugate each other politically.
-find a way to deal with the legacy of the world before this scenario. you will need to destroy as many vestiges as you can in order to truly build things anew. old money, old connections, the previously mentioned "old boy networks" that will crop up from liquifying entire political and economic establishments. they will cooperate, and they will conspire to return to an era before your glorious revolution.
-work out how you're going to arm your central authority. in the end, everything relies on a strong arm and a sword. do so in a manner that keeps you politically neutral, as state-owned factories and arms deal contracts with corporations will politically shift your realm.
-solve the currency problem. making worthless the current world's currencies is bound to end in economic ruin. make sure to do so in a way that doesn't politically shift your regime one way or another.
-consider how you're going to handle civil service. having any political ideology have a hook in the bureaucracy is a threat to the central authority and the city states. find a way to squash all political pluralism in your government staffing, else it may come back to bite you.
-finally, once you are done fleshing out your system, consider if it will actually work in practice and is logically consistent. you will find conflict over arbitrary differences extends further than political ideologies, religions, and ethnicities.

if the whole errand seems much too complicated, time consuming, or simply downright frustrating, that's the point. welcome to statecraft. your job is to contain the infinitely complex and chaotic forces of entropy that are humans and the human condition. and when fighting those, no solution is ever enough. good luck. you'll need it.

[Temple State]

oh, you've addressed issues alright, but none of the real important ones that will make or break your system. effectively your solution to these glaring matters of statecraft is "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, and somehow everything will turn out fine." this is why you shouldn't try and play god king. there are simply too many intricacies and complexities to the matter of building civilization anew to simply just throw up your hands and improvise. this will inevitably end up in ruin.

Get over yourself, the system has been tried and just need modification to get over the flaws in it.

the ultimate issue with your solution is plain to see. you haven't fully thought it through. your plans are not laid well enough. this is the problem that most esoteric political circles have. you can theorize all you please in your ivory tower, but when it comes down to it, you must interact with the boring and mundane aspects of civilization that don't exactly fit into the narrative of your philosophies. taxation, land and resource management, legacy into the future, the actual establishing of your regime, peoples and their cultures, among other things. in other words, you forget that you have to perform rulership and stewardship, which means having to do actual labor and creative thinking to efficiently manage your system and political dynasty.

All modernist ideologies were mere fantasies on paper, broad strokes really, they still had movements that believed in them and yes, they crossed the bridges when they came to them as concerning the details of how to implement their ideas.
This is not even a modernist ideology but an ancient one adapted for modern needs. If you want to talk about the practical implementations, truly it is a bridge to cross, since I am not saying I know of a movement that proposes this at the moment, but if there were they would surely work out such details when edging closer to power.

now, as a rule of thumb here, well-thought-out solutions are better than improvised ones. here's what i'd recommend you meditate on to improve your system:

-solve the geography question. this will have the most long lasting impact into the ages, ergo it must be carefully considered.

Are you looking for the RPG part of the forum perhaps?
I have already addressed roughly how this issue should be solved. Based on population territory would be assigned.

-work out a taxation scheme that is both politically neutral and efficient. your central authority will need funds to sustain itself.

Taxes for infrastructure, transportation and armed forces, already wrote this. You want an exact % or what? Truly a bridge to cross, it would be silly to slap a number on that at this stage.

-consider how you're going to ensure that the central authority remains true to your vision into the future. you cannot rule as an immortal god king, therefore you must contend with the entropy and uncertainty of the future and your successors. futureproof your designs.

How do you ensure ideological orthodoxy in any state?
In this case, it would require a Magna Carta or Bill of Rights that stipulated exactly what can't be altered.

-design mechanisms to ensure that no political actor from the city states can influence the central authority in any way. this will be crucial to ensure that the city states can survive amongst eachother and not subjugate each other politically.

Laws for the obligated transparency of all ideological and politically oriented organizations so they can all be formally chartered. You have already hinted at the solution.

-find a way to deal with the legacy of the world before this scenario. you will need to destroy as many vestiges as you can in order to truly build things anew. old money, old connections, the previously mentioned "old boy networks" that will crop up from liquifying entire political and economic establishments. they will cooperate, and they will conspire to return to an era before your glorious revolution.

By them being chartered and assigned some roles in suitable City States, even though they would perhaps be limited in scope of their power compared to the past, they would either be "bought" and incorporated into the new system. Or face being branded as terrorists I guess, depending on their actions.

-work out how you're going to arm your central authority. in the end, everything relies on a strong arm and a sword. do so in a manner that keeps you politically neutral, as state-owned factories and arms deal contracts with corporations will politically shift your realm.

Obviously taxes would pay for the arming and training of conscripts. But in a sense, if taxes could be lowered by the state producing these things themselves, under licensed manufacturing e.g., I don't think anyone would mind. Sure, total right wing libertarians might decry that the state owns companies, but if it lowers taxes, are they really going to complain about it?

-solve the currency problem. making worthless the current world's currencies is bound to end in economic ruin. make sure to do so in a way that doesn't politically shift your regime one way or another.

I'm not saying we need to discard or outlaw the use of other currencies, old or new. I'm just saying an imperial, global currency, should be what taxes are paid in. What to bind the value to can't be GDP obviously, but perhaps a precious metal or just have a set amount of credits in circulation for every employed citizen.

-consider how you're going to handle civil service. having any political ideology have a hook in the bureaucracy is a threat to the central authority and the city states. find a way to squash all political pluralism in your government staffing, else it may come back to bite you.

Yes, a unity culture based around this system needs to be fostered obviously, from a young age. An imperial cult of sorts.

-finally, once you are done fleshing out your system, consider if it will actually work in practice and is logically consistent. you will find conflict over arbitrary differences extends further than political ideologies, religions, and ethnicities.

The real issue will be the fair distribution of trading ports and resource deposits. But I am sure it can be worked out, man is not beneath this task, no matter his persuasions. Also, with the advancements in recycling, aerial propulsion and the new mining frontiers opening up in the deep of the Earth and in space, these issues will gradually diminish in severity.

if the whole errand seems much too complicated, time consuming, or simply downright frustrating, that's the point. welcome to statecraft. your job is to contain the infinitely complex and chaotic forces of entropy that are humans and the human condition. and when fighting those, no solution is ever enough. good luck. you'll need it.

It's just that, if you read many manifestos proposing new ideologies, they are usually not rich on details about how to implement or change societies to accommodate their ideas. If the main idea has sway, movements that pick it up work these things out by default later on.

[Heloin]

Ooo, well the guy who thought that there would be no wars or political conflicts in this imperium if it did happen. And other things he said is gone for 10 days. Well that was an end for a saga.

And thus the Saga continues.

[The Snazzylands]

This doesn't make any sense.


Politically segregated communities reined in with an iron fist from an imperial authority akin to feudal lordships and petty kingdoms of medieval Europe isn't liberation.

Yes, I am sorry but I prefer that to current globalist world domination by liberal democracy and plutocracy or having some minor anarchist warlords everywhere. I like peace and freedom. I am terribly sorry you don't.

Yes it makes perfect sense. Fascism is idealist. Hitlerism is materialist. I can go into a thousand other things that makes hitlerism at "best" a heretical version of Fascism, but we will not threadjack.

It depends. For many Nazis, especially Himmler and the SS, their ideology was as much spiritual as it was political. It was definitely idealist.

[Vikanias]

oh, you've addressed issues alright, but none of the real important ones that will make or break your system. effectively your solution to these glaring matters of statecraft is "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it, and somehow everything will turn out fine." this is why you shouldn't try and play god king. there are simply too many intricacies and complexities to the matter of building civilization anew to simply just throw up your hands and improvise. this will inevitably end up in ruin.

Get over yourself, the system has been tried and just need modification to get over the flaws in it.

the ultimate issue with your solution is plain to see. you haven't fully thought it through. your plans are not laid well enough. this is the problem that most esoteric political circles have. you can theorize all you please in your ivory tower, but when it comes down to it, you must interact with the boring and mundane aspects of civilization that don't exactly fit into the narrative of your philosophies. taxation, land and resource management, legacy into the future, the actual establishing of your regime, peoples and their cultures, among other things. in other words, you forget that you have to perform rulership and stewardship, which means having to do actual labor and creative thinking to efficiently manage your system and political dynasty.

All modernist ideologies were mere fantasies on paper, broad strokes really, they still had movements that believed in them and yes, they crossed the bridges when they came to them as concerning the details of how to implement their ideas.
This is not even a modernist ideology but an ancient one adapted for modern needs. If you want to talk about the practical implementations, truly it is a bridge to cross, since I am not saying I know of a movement that proposes this at the moment, but if there were they would surely work out such details when edging closer to power.

now, as a rule of thumb here, well-thought-out solutions are better than improvised ones. here's what i'd recommend you meditate on to improve your system:

-solve the geography question. this will have the most long lasting impact into the ages, ergo it must be carefully considered.

Are you looking for the RPG part of the forum perhaps?
I have already addressed roughly how this issue should be solved. Based on population territory would be assigned.

-work out a taxation scheme that is both politically neutral and efficient. your central authority will need funds to sustain itself.

Taxes for infrastructure, transportation and armed forces, already wrote this. You want an exact % or what? Truly a bridge to cross, it would be silly to slap a number on that at this stage.

-consider how you're going to ensure that the central authority remains true to your vision into the future. you cannot rule as an immortal god king, therefore you must contend with the entropy and uncertainty of the future and your successors. futureproof your designs.

How do you ensure ideological orthodoxy in any state?
In this case, it would require a Magna Carta or Bill of Rights that stipulated exactly what can't be altered.

-design mechanisms to ensure that no political actor from the city states can influence the central authority in any way. this will be crucial to ensure that the city states can survive amongst eachother and not subjugate each other politically.

Laws for the obligated transparency of all ideological and politically oriented organizations so they can all be formally chartered. You have already hinted at the solution.

-find a way to deal with the legacy of the world before this scenario. you will need to destroy as many vestiges as you can in order to truly build things anew. old money, old connections, the previously mentioned "old boy networks" that will crop up from liquifying entire political and economic establishments. they will cooperate, and they will conspire to return to an era before your glorious revolution.

By them being chartered and assigned some roles in suitable City States, even though they would perhaps be limited in scope of their power compared to the past, they would either be "bought" and incorporated into the new system. Or face being branded as terrorists I guess, depending on their actions.

-work out how you're going to arm your central authority. in the end, everything relies on a strong arm and a sword. do so in a manner that keeps you politically neutral, as state-owned factories and arms deal contracts with corporations will politically shift your realm.

Obviously taxes would pay for the arming and training of conscripts. But in a sense, if taxes could be lowered by the state producing these things themselves, under licensed manufacturing e.g., I don't think anyone would mind. Sure, total right wing libertarians might decry that the state owns companies, but if it lowers taxes, are they really going to complain about it?

-solve the currency problem. making worthless the current world's currencies is bound to end in economic ruin. make sure to do so in a way that doesn't politically shift your regime one way or another.

I'm not saying we need to discard or outlaw the use of other currencies, old or new. I'm just saying an imperial, global currency, should be what taxes are paid in. What to bind the value to can't be GDP obviously, but perhaps a precious metal or just have a set amount of credits in circulation for every employed citizen.

-consider how you're going to handle civil service. having any political ideology have a hook in the bureaucracy is a threat to the central authority and the city states. find a way to squash all political pluralism in your government staffing, else it may come back to bite you.

Yes, a unity culture based around this system needs to be fostered obviously, from a young age. An imperial cult of sorts.

-finally, once you are done fleshing out your system, consider if it will actually work in practice and is logically consistent. you will find conflict over arbitrary differences extends further than political ideologies, religions, and ethnicities.

The real issue will be the fair distribution of trading ports and resource deposits. But I am sure it can be worked out, man is not beneath this task, no matter his persuasions. Also, with the advancements in recycling, aerial propulsion and the new mining frontiers opening up in the deep of the Earth and in space, these issues will gradually diminish in severity.

if the whole errand seems much too complicated, time consuming, or simply downright frustrating, that's the point. welcome to statecraft. your job is to contain the infinitely complex and chaotic forces of entropy that are humans and the human condition. and when fighting those, no solution is ever enough. good luck. you'll need it.

It's just that, if you read many manifestos proposing new ideologies, they are usually not rich on details about how to implement or change societies to accommodate their ideas. If the main idea has sway, movements that pick it up work these things out by default later on.

A problem with this whole thing is that you imagine yourself on the top of society, and you never realize that you wouldn’t be the leader or a higher up in this new society. And that’s a problem with many peoples imaginations, they want to go to Victorian England but never think that they’d not be the one dancing in the ballroom or eating fine. In reality they most likely be the average joe scrapping up horseshit and eating hard bread.

[Temple State]

A problem with this whole thing is that you imagine yourself on the top of society, and you never realize that you wouldn’t be the leader or a higher up in this new society. And that’s a problem with many peoples imaginations, they want to go to Victorian England but never think that they’d not be the one dancing in the ballroom or eating fine. In reality they most likely be the average joe scrapping up horseshit and eating hard bread.

For all the redundant quoting, it's interesting that you couldn't find a quote where I said I imagined myself in any particular position in this society. Project much?

[Fahran]

It depends. For many Nazis, especially Himmler and the SS, their ideology was as much spiritual as it was political. It was definitely idealist.

Something something disembodied Hyperborean spirits with big solar male energy. Nazism is just astrology for German angerybois stumbling through the Inter-War Period.

[Vikanias]

A problem with this whole thing is that you imagine yourself on the top of society, and you never realize that you wouldn’t be the leader or a higher up in this new society. And that’s a problem with many peoples imaginations, they want to go to Victorian England but never think that they’d not be the one dancing in the ballroom or eating fine. In reality they most likely be the average joe scrapping up horseshit and eating hard bread.

For all the redundant quoting, it's interesting that you couldn't find a quote where I said I imagined myself in any particular position in this society. Project much?

Har har, you’ve made it clear that you see yourself establishing this imperium as no one in the universe besides you or your fellow fascists want to make this happen, as others have stated this system has many flaws, racism is a thing, nothings stopping commiegrad with a black leader deporting all the white communists and rejecting anybody else. And for the measure you’re redundant, Project much?

[Temple State]

Har har, you’ve made it clear that you see yourself establishing this imperium as no one in the universe besides you or your fellow fascists want to make this happen, as others have stated this system has many flaws, racism is a thing, nothings stopping commiegrad with a black leader deporting all the white communists and rejecting anybody else. And for the measure you’re redundant, Project much?

If I made it clear you should easily be able to quote me on it.

[Vikanias]

Har har, you’ve made it clear that you see yourself establishing this imperium as no one in the universe besides you or your fellow fascists want to make this happen, as others have stated this system has many flaws, racism is a thing, nothings stopping commiegrad with a black leader deporting all the white communists and rejecting anybody else. And for the measure you’re redundant, Project much?

If I made it clear you should easily be able to quote me on it.

Like I’d give that away

[Temple State]

If I made it clear you should easily be able to quote me on it.

Like I’d give that away

So that's a no then?