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Feat Thes
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We totally need more cards.

Postby Feat Thes » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:43 pm

Okay. So I joined this game at the end of last year and am really into the trading cards (non-ironically). I'd really love to have another season of them. 8)

It's been two years since the last one came out and a lot of the nations that the cards are for no longer exist. Plus, I feel like there would be a lot of opportunity to make the cards more interesting - maybe they could have their values assigned based off the event to find the best nation? That would be cool.

Sometimes the market feels a bit dead and I think this could help revive it. (Plus, I totally need a card for my own nation)

What are your thoughts? :ugeek:

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The Python
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Postby The Python » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:34 pm

Feat Thes wrote:Okay. So I joined this game at the end of last year and am really into the trading cards (non-ironically). I'd really love to have another season of them. 8)

It's been two years since the last one came out and a lot of the nations that the cards are for no longer exist. Plus, I feel like there would be a lot of opportunity to make the cards more interesting - maybe they could have their values assigned based off the event to find the best nation? That would be cool.

Sometimes the market feels a bit dead and I think this could help revive it. (Plus, I totally need a card for my own nation)

What are your thoughts? :ugeek:

Currently, the suspicions are that Season 3 will come in about a month or something (because that's when it would be assuming they space Season 2 and 3 the same as they spaced 1 and 2). There is also a megathread about Season 3 fyi.
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Postby Valentine Z » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:40 pm

Every time Season 3 is mentioned or we pestered the Admins/Mods about it, the release date is shifted by one day. And in the cards server, S3/Season 3 has been found mentioned 3714 times.

At this current moment, S3 release date is estimated to be 2031-08-26 10:39:49. GMT +8.

/s
Last edited by Valentine Z on Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Postby Tim-Opolis » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:23 pm

What's funny is that Card Farmers are likely a direct detriment to achieving S3 of Cards because of how much server space their Card Farming Puppets take up.

All of those puppets will all get Cards. That's a lot of server bloat. My money is on S3 of Cards being MIA specifically because they're trying to figure out how to implement them without burning down the site stability-wise.
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Qvait
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Postby Qvait » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:52 pm

Valentine Z wrote:Every time Season 3 is mentioned or we pestered the Admins/Mods about it, the release date is shifted by one day. And in the cards server, S3/Season 3 has been found mentioned 3714 times.

At this current moment, S3 release date is estimated to be 2031-08-26 10:39:49. GMT +8.

/s

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Dabarastan
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Postby Dabarastan » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:39 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:What's funny is that Card Farmers are likely a direct detriment to achieving S3 of Cards because of how much server space their Card Farming Puppets take up.

All of those puppets will all get Cards. That's a lot of server bloat. My money is on S3 of Cards being MIA specifically because they're trying to figure out how to implement them without burning down the site stability-wise.

If that's the case, then one card per IP (player is allowed to choose which nation) mightn't such a bad idea. Even though I was quite looking forward to the S3 cards of some of my puppets. Either way, the new cards will come when and if they come. I'm sure it's being sorted.

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Frisbeeteria
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Postby Frisbeeteria » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:39 pm

Dabarastan wrote:If that's the case, then one card per IP

Let's just stop this silly idea before it starts. "IP addresses" are not personal identification numbers. You've personally got at least 40 of them. Everyone on the same router (home, office, school, mobile network) shares one or more IP addresses with everyone else. If you use the public Wifi at MaDonalds or your public library, you get a new IP address. If you visit the homes of Granny, Uncle Pete, and Cousin Sue, you get 3 new IP addresses.

Sorry, pet peeve. Most people have no idea how modern networking operates.

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The Mountains
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Postby The Mountains » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:53 pm

Dabarastan wrote:
Tim-Opolis wrote:What's funny is that Card Farmers are likely a direct detriment to achieving S3 of Cards because of how much server space their Card Farming Puppets take up.

All of those puppets will all get Cards. That's a lot of server bloat. My money is on S3 of Cards being MIA specifically because they're trying to figure out how to implement them without burning down the site stability-wise.

If that's the case, then one card per IP (player is allowed to choose which nation) mightn't such a bad idea. Even though I was quite looking forward to the S3 cards of some of my puppets. Either way, the new cards will come when and if they come. I'm sure it's being sorted.

Or exclude all nations that used one of the standard NS-provided flags. That way every card you pulled would have a custom flag...

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Postby New Eestiball » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:58 pm

The Mountains wrote:
Dabarastan wrote:If that's the case, then one card per IP (player is allowed to choose which nation) mightn't such a bad idea. Even though I was quite looking forward to the S3 cards of some of my puppets. Either way, the new cards will come when and if they come. I'm sure it's being sorted.

Or exclude all nations that used one of the standard NS-provided flags. That way every card you pulled would have a custom flag...

No. I have a small collection titled ‘real flags’, and I want to keep it.
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Roadkill-Cafe
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Postby Roadkill-Cafe » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:48 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:What's funny is that Card Farmers are likely a direct detriment to achieving S3 of Cards because of how much server space their Card Farming Puppets take up.

All of those puppets will all get Cards. That's a lot of server bloat. My money is on S3 of Cards being MIA specifically because they're trying to figure out how to implement them without burning down the site stability-wise.

Got an idea here, don't know if it's feasible.

How about all nations get their own card but limit the amount of puppets which can draw cards. Arbitrarily let's say ten. So each player can only "enable" ten of it's nations to draw cards at any time for the entirety of S3. This could prevent more of these card farms from forming and cause many preexisting ones to vanish.

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Giovanniland
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Postby Giovanniland » Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:21 pm

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:Got an idea here, don't know if it's feasible.

How about all nations get their own card but limit the amount of puppets which can draw cards. Arbitrarily let's say ten. So each player can only "enable" ten of it's nations to draw cards at any time for the entirety of S3. This could prevent more of these card farms from forming and cause many preexisting ones to vanish.

This is basically like the idea of restricting packs to WA nations, I don't think it's feasible. All it would do is make it impossible for new traders to rise through the ranks, due to the wealth accumulated by all the farmers before this change.

Answering the OP's question, a new season would certainly be interesting, especially with so many farmers (including the #1, Koem Kab, himself) seemingly getting more inactive. However there's nothing we can do except wait for when the Admins release it.
Last edited by Giovanniland on Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Roadkill-Cafe
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Postby Roadkill-Cafe » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:53 am

Tim-Opolis wrote:What's funny is that Card Farmers are likely a direct detriment to achieving S3 of Cards because of how much server space their Card Farming Puppets take up.

All of those puppets will all get Cards. That's a lot of server bloat. My money is on S3 of Cards being MIA specifically because they're trying to figure out how to implement them without burning down the site stability-wise.

Giovanniland wrote:
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:Got an idea here, don't know if it's feasible.

How about all nations get their own card but limit the amount of puppets which can draw cards. Arbitrarily let's say ten. So each player can only "enable" ten of it's nations to draw cards at any time for the entirety of S3. This could prevent more of these card farms from forming and cause many preexisting ones to vanish.

This is basically like the idea of restricting packs to WA nations, I don't think it's feasible. All it would do is make it impossible for new traders to rise through the ranks, due to the wealth accumulated by all the farmers before this change.

Answering the OP's question, a new season would certainly be interesting, especially with so many farmers (including the #1, Koem Kab, himself) seemingly getting more inactive. However there's nothing we can do except wait for when the Admins release it.


Why don't you think it's feasible? Seems like it could be accomplished in settings by reworking the No Cards option.

In answering Tim-Opolis' post I chose ten as an arbitrary number. The limit could be set at whatever number is determined by technical to be safe for the stability of the site. I admit to having no idea what that number would be.

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Giovanniland
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Postby Giovanniland » Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:59 am

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Giovanniland wrote:This is basically like the idea of restricting packs to WA nations, I don't think it's feasible. All it would do is make it impossible for new traders to rise through the ranks, due to the wealth accumulated by all the farmers before this change.

Answering the OP's question, a new season would certainly be interesting, especially with so many farmers (including the #1, Koem Kab, himself) seemingly getting more inactive. However there's nothing we can do except wait for when the Admins release it.


Why don't you think it's feasible? Seems like it could be accomplished in settings by reworking the No Cards option.

In answering Tim-Opolis' post I chose ten as an arbitrary number. The limit could be set at whatever number is determined by technical to be safe for the stability of the site. I admit to having no idea what that number would be.

I guess we had different interpretations of the word "feasible", sorry for the confusion. In the tech side of things, I believe it could surely be accomplished without admin spending too much time and effort to code it, if we use your suggestion of adapting the "No Cards" button.

However, in the cards gameplay side, which is what I was referring to, the effects would be devastating as I explained in my previous post. It would be an unfair playing level between those who were here before the change and those who were not.
Last edited by Giovanniland on Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Roadkill-Cafe
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Postby Roadkill-Cafe » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:13 am

Giovanniland wrote:
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Why don't you think it's feasible? Seems like it could be accomplished in settings by reworking the No Cards option.

In answering Tim-Opolis' post I chose ten as an arbitrary number. The limit could be set at whatever number is determined by technical to be safe for the stability of the site. I admit to having no idea what that number would be.

I guess we had different interpretations of the word "feasible", sorry for the confusion. In the tech side of things, I believe it could surely be accomplished without admin spending too much time and effort to code it, if we use your suggestion of adapting the "No Cards" button.

However, in the cards gameplay side, which is what I was referring to, the effects would be devastating as I explained in my previous post. It would be an unfair playing level between those who were here before the change and those who were not.


Oh, well that's great it's technically feasible.
As far as the gameplay side, it's time for a full reset anyway if we're looking at what's fair. The administration could acknowledge a list of winners of season 1 & 2 (maybe the top 100) and just move on to S3 with a clean slate.

I'd suggest this - every player gets to keep all their cards but S1 & S2 cards are not included in the S3 deck values. Cap banks at 500.00 available or some reasonable figure. Only allow excess bank from S1/S2 to be spent on increasing deck size only. Koem Kab's deck capacity is currently 300 cards, so this would use a lot of his excess bank if not all. There are other players where this imbalance needs correcting, including my own deck. Adding cards through auction while over deck capacity should also end.

Anyone wishing to know their all time total DV can just add the final S1/S2 totals to their current S3 DV. Perhaps do this reset going forwards every two seasons to keep the game fresh. Just an idea, Gio.
Last edited by Roadkill-Cafe on Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Fauzjhia
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Postby Fauzjhia » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:44 am

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Giovanniland wrote:I guess we had different interpretations of the word "feasible", sorry for the confusion. In the tech side of things, I believe it could surely be accomplished without admin spending too much time and effort to code it, if we use your suggestion of adapting the "No Cards" button.

However, in the cards gameplay side, which is what I was referring to, the effects would be devastating as I explained in my previous post. It would be an unfair playing level between those who were here before the change and those who were not.


Oh, well that's great it's technically feasible.
As far as the gameplay side, it's time for a full reset anyway if we're looking at what's fair. The administration could acknowledge a list of winners of season 1 & 2 (maybe the top 100) and just move on to S3 with a clean slate.

I'd suggest this - every player gets to keep all their cards but S1 & S2 cards are not included in the S3 deck values. Cap banks at 500.00 available or some reasonable figure. Only allow excess bank from S1/S2 to be spent on increasing deck size only. Koem Kab's deck capacity is currently 300 cards, so this would use a lot of his excess bank if not all. There are other players where this imbalance needs correcting, including my own deck. Adding cards through auction while over deck capacity should also end.

Anyone wishing to know their all time total DV can just add the final S1/S2 totals to their current S3 DV. Perhaps do this reset going forwards every two seasons to keep the game fresh. Just an idea, Gio.


I believe the idea of a reset might be harmful to the game.

There are countless types of collection, becoming number 1 on the leader-board is not the only we have in the card world.
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Roadkill-Cafe
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Postby Roadkill-Cafe » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:29 am

Fauzjhia wrote:
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Oh, well that's great it's technically feasible.
As far as the gameplay side, it's time for a full reset anyway if we're looking at what's fair. The administration could acknowledge a list of winners of season 1 & 2 (maybe the top 100) and just move on to S3 with a clean slate.

I'd suggest this - every player gets to keep all their cards but S1 & S2 cards are not included in the S3 deck values. Cap banks at 500.00 available or some reasonable figure. Only allow excess bank from S1/S2 to be spent on increasing deck size only. Koem Kab's deck capacity is currently 300 cards, so this would use a lot of his excess bank if not all. There are other players where this imbalance needs correcting, including my own deck. Adding cards through auction while over deck capacity should also end.

Anyone wishing to know their all time total DV can just add the final S1/S2 totals to their current S3 DV. Perhaps do this reset going forwards every two seasons to keep the game fresh. Just an idea, Gio.


I believe the idea of a reset might be harmful to the game.

There are countless types of collection, becoming number 1 on the leader-board is not the only we have in the card world.


Making the game fair to new players is good for the game.

As i envision this, collections would remain as they are ...and would still add new cards from future seasons.

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Minskiev
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Postby Minskiev » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:38 pm

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:
I believe the idea of a reset might be harmful to the game.

There are countless types of collection, becoming number 1 on the leader-board is not the only we have in the card world.


Making the game fair to new players is good for the game.

As i envision this, collections would remain as they are ...and would still add new cards from future seasons.


As a top 20 player from the past 6 months alone, I think this is a bad idea. The game is not unfair to newer players. Make more puppets, join the Discord, get scripts, profit. The idea of an S3 value is also a little bit strange: why S3? Because cards are more mainstream? If you want to get rich, don't ask for a reset which would kill all the work we've put into cards. Instead put some work in yourself and climb the ranks. It's not very difficult to do.
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Roadkill-Cafe
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Postby Roadkill-Cafe » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:43 pm

Minskiev wrote:
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Making the game fair to new players is good for the game.

As i envision this, collections would remain as they are ...and would still add new cards from future seasons.


As a top 20 player from the past 6 months alone, I think this is a bad idea. The game is not unfair to newer players. Make more puppets, join the Discord, get scripts, profit. The idea of an S3 value is also a little bit strange: why S3? Because cards are more mainstream? If you want to get rich, don't ask for a reset which would kill all the work we've put into cards. Instead put some work in yourself and climb the ranks. It's not very difficult to do.


More puppets reportedly destabilize the site. That's the point of the conversation here. Less card farms is reputedly the goal. If the site goes down there isn't any card game.

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Giovanniland
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Postby Giovanniland » Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:55 pm

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:Oh, well that's great it's technically feasible.
As far as the gameplay side, it's time for a full reset anyway if we're looking at what's fair. The administration could acknowledge a list of winners of season 1 & 2 (maybe the top 100) and just move on to S3 with a clean slate.

I'd suggest this - every player gets to keep all their cards but S1 & S2 cards are not included in the S3 deck values. Cap banks at 500.00 available or some reasonable figure. Only allow excess bank from S1/S2 to be spent on increasing deck size only. Koem Kab's deck capacity is currently 300 cards, so this would use a lot of his excess bank if not all. There are other players where this imbalance needs correcting, including my own deck. Adding cards through auction while over deck capacity should also end.

Anyone wishing to know their all time total DV can just add the final S1/S2 totals to their current S3 DV. Perhaps do this reset going forwards every two seasons to keep the game fresh. Just an idea, Gio.
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:Making the game fair to new players is good for the game.


I see the game as fair to new players right now, since the resources are there for a player to do what they want in cards: increase deck value, create a collection, hoard their own card or some other card they like, accumulate bank, having fun by simply participating on the community aspect of pull events. They just have to spend time and effort on it, which I see as fair, since you don't succeed by doing nothing.

Plus, while your idea might somewhat level the playing field between new and established players, it will only be a clean slate in the terms of tangible assets: cards, deck value and bank. The intangible, which is the knowledge each player keeps from their experiences, will still be there and will result in the same players eventually conquering the leaderboard again, with the main exception that inactive ones that have only held their rankings due to the stability of their cards would give the place to a few new players. Still, those are a small minority.

Regardless of that, I feel like the overall game could do with some changes. Season 3 will help create a burst of activity, which I see is something the OP wants, but it will be temporary. If Season 3 lasts too long we'd see the same we are seeing now that Season 2 has lasted one and a half year. Though proposing them here would be threadjacking... so perhaps I might get around to create threads for them soon.
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Fauzjhia
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Postby Fauzjhia » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:11 pm

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Minskiev wrote:
As a top 20 player from the past 6 months alone, I think this is a bad idea. The game is not unfair to newer players. Make more puppets, join the Discord, get scripts, profit. The idea of an S3 value is also a little bit strange: why S3? Because cards are more mainstream? If you want to get rich, don't ask for a reset which would kill all the work we've put into cards. Instead put some work in yourself and climb the ranks. It's not very difficult to do.


More puppets reportedly destabilize the site. That's the point of the conversation here. Less card farms is reputedly the goal. If the site goes down there isn't any card game.


I get understans your idea of limiting the number of puppets per players.
its has been in my mind too. I just wonder what could we do to prevent a player from having more then 1000 nations, if we say 1000 nation is the hard limit.
Last edited by Fauzjhia on Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vampire Existence of Barnabas Collins
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Postby Vampire Existence of Barnabas Collins » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:14 pm

Giovanniland wrote:
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:Oh, well that's great it's technically feasible.
As far as the gameplay side, it's time for a full reset anyway if we're looking at what's fair. The administration could acknowledge a list of winners of season 1 & 2 (maybe the top 100) and just move on to S3 with a clean slate.

I'd suggest this - every player gets to keep all their cards but S1 & S2 cards are not included in the S3 deck values. Cap banks at 500.00 available or some reasonable figure. Only allow excess bank from S1/S2 to be spent on increasing deck size only. Koem Kab's deck capacity is currently 300 cards, so this would use a lot of his excess bank if not all. There are other players where this imbalance needs correcting, including my own deck. Adding cards through auction while over deck capacity should also end.

Anyone wishing to know their all time total DV can just add the final S1/S2 totals to their current S3 DV. Perhaps do this reset going forwards every two seasons to keep the game fresh. Just an idea, Gio.
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:Making the game fair to new players is good for the game.


I see the game as fair to new players right now, since the resources are there for a player to do what they want in cards: increase deck value, create a collection, hoard their own card or some other card they like, accumulate bank, having fun by simply participating on the community aspect of pull events. They just have to spend time and effort on it, which I see as fair, since you don't succeed by doing nothing.

Plus, while your idea might somewhat level the playing field between new and established players, it will only be a clean slate in the terms of tangible assets: cards, deck value and bank. The intangible, which is the knowledge each player keeps from their experiences, will still be there and will result in the same players eventually conquering the leaderboard again, with the main exception that inactive ones that have only held their rankings due to the stability of their cards would give the place to a few new players. Still, those are a small minority.

Regardless of that, I feel like the overall game could do with some changes. Season 3 will help create a burst of activity, which I see is something the OP wants, but it will be temporary. If Season 3 lasts too long we'd see the same we are seeing now that Season 2 has lasted one and a half year. Though proposing them here would be threadjacking... so perhaps I might get around to create threads for them soon.


It would be nice to see those players who quit cards find good reasons to play again. Consider their dormant cards as deoxygenated blood cells in the body of the game. Get that blood flowing again, so to speak!
Last edited by Vampire Existence of Barnabas Collins on Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Roadkill-Cafe
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Postby Roadkill-Cafe » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:43 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
More puppets reportedly destabilize the site. That's the point of the conversation here. Less card farms is reputedly the goal. If the site goes down there isn't any card game.


I get understans your idea of limiting the number of puppets per players.
its has been in my mind too. I just wonder what could we do to prevent a player from having more then 1000 nations, if we say 1000 nation is the hard limit.


If i had to bet, I'd guess 1000 nations was way in the high field. Maybe everything from roughly 200 on up is. My hunch the number is between 50 - 200 allowable. You don't want players using bots or forbidden script aiding them in answering issues to quickly draw cards. I understand the game stats are also of importance here.

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Fauzjhia
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Postby Fauzjhia » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:04 pm

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:
I get understans your idea of limiting the number of puppets per players.
its has been in my mind too. I just wonder what could we do to prevent a player from having more then 1000 nations, if we say 1000 nation is the hard limit.


If i had to bet, I'd guess 1000 nations was way in the high field. Maybe everything from roughly 200 on up is. My hunch the number is between 50 - 200 allowable. You don't want players using bots or forbidden script aiding them in answering issues to quickly draw cards. I understand the game stats are also of importance here.



daily. I answer issues (manually) in 249 nations (okay its not perfect, but its close to what I want) . I use got Issues script for the 331 nations, I'll admit this.

so you think that you can easily up to 300 nations, manually.
although' i am sure, many players do not play like this. I got some respect for my (stats and easter egg puppets)

as for my 331 others nations, they have 2 goals
131, worlds of colors and socialist canada, Maintain the market value of puppet cards. (non transfer nations)
200, gather bank (yeah I transfer), and give every legendary it finds to TRR nations. (excluding Fauzjhia.)
Last edited by Fauzjhia on Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Warning self-identify as liberal-communist. also as Feminist, ecologist and nationalist.

Support : non-corrupt state, human rights, women rights, wild life protection, banning fossil fuel, cooperatives, journalists, Radio-Canada, Télé-Quebec, freedom and right to be informed, Quebec's Independence, Protection of the French Language, Immigration right and integration.

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Coffin-Breathe
Minister
 
Posts: 2090
Founded: Nov 22, 2009
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Coffin-Breathe » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:49 am

Well, how about "system" would simply prohibid the use of scripts ? This would definitely drastically reduce the ammount of "farming puppets" (except for some fanatics willing to spend their whole day on farming).

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Parhe
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8285
Founded: May 10, 2011
Anarchy

We totally need more cards.

Postby Parhe » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:41 am

Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
Minskiev wrote:
As a top 20 player from the past 6 months alone, I think this is a bad idea. The game is not unfair to newer players. Make more puppets, join the Discord, get scripts, profit. The idea of an S3 value is also a little bit strange: why S3? Because cards are more mainstream? If you want to get rich, don't ask for a reset which would kill all the work we've put into cards. Instead put some work in yourself and climb the ranks. It's not very difficult to do.


More puppets reportedly destabilize the site. That's the point of the conversation here. Less card farms is reputedly the goal. If the site goes down there isn't any card game.

So, seems like this is all dependent on having some sort of account registry. Otherwise, people can just farm with other puppets. Though, I could have sworn some sort of account linking was in the works.

Anyhow, if this is possible, I can totally get behind it. Restrict how many puppets people can have for the purpose of farming cards. There are way too many puppets because of card farming and all it does it slow down the system and clog up packs with hundreds of cards all sharing the same flag.

Fauzjhia wrote:
Roadkill-Cafe wrote:
More puppets reportedly destabilize the site. That's the point of the conversation here. Less card farms is reputedly the goal. If the site goes down there isn't any card game.


I get understans your idea of limiting the number of puppets per players.
its has been in my mind too. I just wonder what could we do to prevent a player from having more then 1000 nations, if we say 1000 nation is the hard limit.

Now, this, I am against.
Hey, it is Parhe :D I am always open to telegrams.
I know it is a Work-In-Progress, but I would love it if y'all looked at my new factbook and gave me some feedback!

BRING BACK THE ICE CLIMBERS

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