[DEFEATED] Against Quorum Raiding

[Team Lennox]

All of this over some telegram spam huh? You do possess the ability to block them you know? Also who is getting so many telegrams, that they can't take the 10 seconds out of their lives to read one? Seriously, there is far bigger shit to get worked up about. Do we really need to fight the cosmetic fights?

Plus we need people to support this to just sayin'.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

Plus we need people to support this to just sayin'.

Ain’t happening sunshine. This Declaration is being declared DOA.

[Jutsa]

I'm afraid the battle is a lost cause. It seems the vast majority of people are not in favor of officially condemning the act of brute forcing resolutions out of queue for political reasons particularly those of anti-fascist movements despite the fact that provisions in the resolution make exceptions particularly to those relating to fascists and does not actually serve any genuine purpose other than to say "please don't do that".

Or most don't care and are voting for other reasons. (Other results I got were "telegram spam", "author", and, for the vast majority, things I should not repeat on forum.)

Alas.

[Tinhampton]

"Against Quorum Raiding" was defeated 8,121 votes to 5,854. (41.89% support)

For: 5,854: Amerion (672), The Atlae Isles (547), Wischland (342), Agalaesia (206), Thaelle (134), Ruinenlust (117), Brototh (101), Chitral (87), Stephenese Republic (68), The Salaxalans (64), Josephtan (57), The Glorious Hypetrain (56), Sylh Alanor (55), Vancouvia (53), South Boston Irishmen (46), Mikeswill (45), Dabberwocky (39), Quinceria (37), Boris Cult (35), Candensia (32), Imperial Eagle (32), Hindu Puri (31), Sanctaria (29), Paleocacher (28), Yodle (27), Lamerdon (25), Nationific (21), Nagistan (20), Suter (20), Castle Federation (19), New Scottsville (18), Sirian (16), Ecclestia (16), Calnodia (16), Greater Cuba (14), ScotlandSerenity (13), One Small Island (12), Isaris (12), Aera Ninel (12), Gatchina (12), The Hard Part (11), Yafetistan (11), Ko-oren (11), Derthalen (10), Romanian Sultanate (10), Seludong (10), The Voltarum (10), Halcyon Nova (10), Thee Imperium 0f Man (10), Aftenheim (10), The Free Northern Isles (10), Ktchenia (8), Golanchia (8), Otaku Stratus (8), Grand Empire of Prussia (8), Rogue River (7), Orennica (7), TheRuhr (7), GoodKingWenceslas (7), Catrabania (7), The Scottish Republic (7), Birb Bois United Front (6), Norvew (6), Kustonia (6), The Soviet state of Svalbard (6), Creative Branding (6), El Varctica (6), Killzone35 (6), Hetairaea (5), Wadelhelpia (5), Koxor (5), Omniabstracta (5), The Dark Crusaders (5), The Sovereign Kingdom of Immobilia (5), Tianjastan (5), A Puppy Dies When You Ban This Nation (5), Almerdonia (5), Libonesia (5), Imperialist Bonaparte (5), Krovnik (5), Voxija (5), The Candy Of Bottles (4), Socialist Amogus (4), Pasaistan (4), Edmundian Pluto (4), Smiley Bob (4), Reultan (4), Conservativealia (4), Socruell (4), Willtechia (4), Republic of Dixie (4), Eastern Carpathian Free States (4), Auxorii (4), United McCormack Empire (4), Beazlend (3), Dragons of Power (3), Wallace Country (3), Gumeus (3), Auruna (3), Atcquatica (3), Littjara (3), Alistia (3), Ethwelistan (3), Donau Federation (3), United Lammunist Republic (3), Chiarje (3), Herby (3), South Abrada (3), Rokdoverstan (3), Rexcaeli (3), Friendton (3), Ravenstan (2), Meliant (2), Vennos (2), Eotheood (2), The Republic of Abe (2), Erloane (2), For The worlds of the midrim (2), The Islands of Europe and the Americas (2), Tarlag (2), Feujia (2), Fooger Booger (2), Antrun (2), Erisure (2), Molopovia (2), The Ancient World (2), Sedgistan (2), North-West Commland (2), CoraSpia (2), Islands Of Ventro (2), Robotox Empire (2), West Vesteria (2), Republic of Blank (2), United Dependencies (2), Nasset (2), The Anarchist Federation of Spain (2), Greenkeep (2), Kinben-ism (2), Wisea (2), Vipathe (2), Silver-Tree (2), Merulla (2), Imperial Felchah (2), Dinaris (2), Adrianicana (2), Karyeena (2), Greater Eireann (2), SherpDaWerp (2), NinjitsUtopia (2), Zombiedolphins (2), Rosmana (2), Warrior 25 (2), Saganye (2), Qudrath (2), South Olpen (2), Imperiya Snezhnaya (2), Lower Slobbovia (2), The Pirates of the West (2), The Eurasian SFSR (2), Hometania (2), Great Primrosia (2), Gronsted (2), ErykCarrillo (2), and (2,167) individual member nations.

Against: 8,121: Francois Isidore (928), Dilber (482), East Durthang (421), Imperium Anglorum (396), Kethania (307), North East Somerset (249), Primorye Oblast (209), Luna State (186), New Samon (184), Duby (159), Lesser Velutaria (114), TESDAI (106), Levont (99), ShrewLlamaLand (97), Bearded Dragones (81), Enlais (62), Nulkia (54), Brys questions (53), Particle (33), Noble Titans (32), International Socialist Union (30), Karteria (29), Tostandia (27), NewTexas (24), Orioni 2 (23), Swiftlandian Peoples Republic (22), Alentejo and Algarve (22), Tinhampton (21), Asian Lands (19), Cruciland (19), Martinilinian (18), Wentshire (17), Oi Barbaroi (16), Sheepiania (16), Bassiliya (15), Ecolaria (15), German Federal Reich (14), Fachumonn (14), Zamastan (14), Orca and Narwhal (12), Niveusium (12), Baloo Kingdom (12), Conflagration City 5 (11), Xanarchea (11), Azgoghk (11), Vegaga (11), Albarusija (10), Oslana (10), Whallhall (9), Echidona (9), Candanadium (9), Federal republic of Socialsts (9), Chodean Kal (9), The Independent States of Allied Forces (9), Calamari Lands (9), Lurusitania (8), The Reich of my People (8), Brocklandia (8), Of The Glorious Soviet Onion (7), Aelythium (7), Russia Major (7), Angry Saffron (7), Olde Towne (7), Taki Calxur (7), Miseria (6), Lesbian Piraters (6), The Regalian Underland (6), Cynetia (6), Libertarian Communist Planets (6), Taraom (6), Wobbegong (6), Tuandle (6), Lost Village Mayohiga (6), Wagastan (6), Lithuanian Ireland (6), New Delfos (5), ColdHeartedBastards (5), Lamoni (5), FORKTASTICSTAN (5), Crawlaysia (5), Dellettia (5), Demokratische Volksrepublik Ozeanien (4), Wabacha (4), Novum Orientis (4), Milkination (4), Chap Ven (4), Barak Khalad (4), Sord land (4), Communo-Slavocia (4), Zhong-guo (4), The Giantik (4), San Teodoro de Haro (4), ObramaNation (4), The Flyin (4), Vestra-Sverige (4), Karnitia (4), Baccalieu (3), The Neolithic German Empire (3), Tsaivao (3), Flor-Fina (3), Matonis (3), Frontier Isles (3), Islae (3), Davelands (3), The Palentine (3), AEthelgard (3), Easway (3), Tomisburg (3), New Walaca (3), North Power (3), Swideri (3), Terminum (3), Libertatia 2 (3), Madrocea (3), Achain (3), Dagnia (3), Republic of Washinton (3), Somalwilandia (3), Jacobopolus (3), Talthesia (3), 11 Templar Knights (3), CrithDung (2), Necropole Of Savoie (2), Agife (2), The Hazar Amisnery (2), Kaznotski (2), North Aqusomia (2), Voneisen (2), United Corporate States (2), Zfhmpnaf (2), Shnrubton (2), Antelen (2), Whitemore (2), Calcaterra (2), Estamonia (2), GraySoap (2), Il Osoris (2), Neim (2), Romulus III (2), Adinesi (2), The Pop Punk Union (2), Ze Faderland (2), Gibraltarica (2), Adeiatic (2), Southeast Marajarbia (2), Rivgalia (2), Imren (2), Ibarkla (2), Greater Zhanland (2), Dracolia (2), Peoples Republic of Lower Saxony (2), Cerata (2), West Axeton (2), Melanocytes (2), The Hermetic Order of The Baal (2), Imperioa (2), Ands Ryu Quat (2), Habianclazia (2), Snowy Town Island (2), Real Gamers (2), Duhhhmurica (2), Lacmhacarh (2), Nopengie (2), Chundukeratopia (2), Copristan (2), Thineshist (2), Fsdh E (2), Ujes Ryand (2), Unified Democratic Europe (2), Consigahria (2), Some People on Planet Arcadia (2), Hakuri (2), Union of Noovistian (2), Suvmia (2), Nisasia (2), North Mack (2), Hongli (2), East Thule (2), His Excellency (2), and (2,918) individual member nations.

[Praeceps]

That was an incredibly surprising result. Who could have possibly predicted that result?

Well, regardless, it was interesting to see XKI blatantly demonstrate their hypocrisy.

[Neo-Western East Korea]

great success

[Mapperdonia]

It was a complete failure. With the defeat of the resolution "Against Quorum Raiding", it proves that the World Assembly simply has no value in determining the future of the nations willing to have their consent. Those who made it possible should be ashamed of themselves because they would continue to have an undemocratic practice in the halls of this sacred institution. I stand with Jutsa and the 5,854 who strongly deserve to keep their freedoms and express their contempt against those who wished to undermine the World Assembly. Therefore, it is with regret that because of the defeat of the resolution "Against Quorum Raiding", I effectively resign from the World Assembly and I call other nations to follow suit as well.

[The Python]

Sad to see this defeated.

[Sincluda]

It was a complete failure. With the defeat of the resolution "Against Quorum Raiding", it proves that the World Assembly simply has no value in determining the future of the nations willing to have their consent. Those who made it possible should be ashamed of themselves because they would continue to have an undemocratic practice in the halls of this sacred institution. I stand with Jutsa and the 5,854 who strongly deserve to keep their freedoms and express their contempt against those who wished to undermine the World Assembly. Therefore, it is with regret that because of the defeat of the resolution "Against Quorum Raiding", I effectively resign from the World Assembly and I call other nations to follow suit as well.

This wouldn't remove quorum raiding, you know...

[Mapperdonia]

It was a complete failure. With the defeat of the resolution "Against Quorum Raiding", it proves that the World Assembly simply has no value in determining the future of the nations willing to have their consent. Those who made it possible should be ashamed of themselves because they would continue to have an undemocratic practice in the halls of this sacred institution. I stand with Jutsa and the 5,854 who strongly deserve to keep their freedoms and express their contempt against those who wished to undermine the World Assembly. Therefore, it is with regret that because of the defeat of the resolution "Against Quorum Raiding", I effectively resign from the World Assembly and I call other nations to follow suit as well.

This wouldn't remove quorum raiding, you know...

However, quorum raiding is undemocratic. Why can't nations have their say on any matter?

[Sincluda]

This wouldn't remove quorum raiding, you know...

However, quorum raiding is undemocratic. Why can't nations have their say on any matter?

I'm still confused as to how this would ensure what you want. It's a declaration. Quorum raiding is still something that can be done whether or not this did pass. There's just no official statement against it.

Also, you are the one giving up your say on matters because you are resigning.

[Jutsa]

However, quorum raiding is undemocratic. Why can't nations have their say on any matter?

I understand your frustration. Personally, I would still stay in the World Assembly to keep fighting for its rights.
But in the end, all this proposal would have done would be to condemn such actions - which would have been a step in the right direction,
but it would have still existed. Regardless, it's ultimately your decision, and I and many nations understand if you were to remain parted with this august union.

(That said, you very much can still be in the World Assembly and ignore legislation, save for stat changes caused by General Assembly resolutions passing. But don't tell anyone I said that.)

[Xoriet]

However, quorum raiding is undemocratic. Why can't nations have their say on any matter?

Easy fix. Learn how to defend and start defending against quorum raids if you want a say in the matter. There's nothing stopping natives who oppose quorum raiding from trying to stop it on their own other than their decision to rely on words that accomplish nothing when mechanical action is needed to put a stop to that to which they object. The declaration would have stopped absolutely no-one. If you want something done about quorum raiding, take the initiative to learn how to stop it yourselves. This is a lesson that nobody ever seems to learn: Words don't stop any form of raiding.

[Slavic Democratic Nations]

All of this over some telegram spam huh? You do possess the ability to block them you know? Also who is getting so many telegrams, that they can't take the 10 seconds out of their lives to read one? Seriously, there is far bigger shit to get worked up about. Do we really need to fight the cosmetic fights?

It is a complete irony that the author and the supporters of the proposal that tried to condemn something "undemocratic" tried to sway those who used their democratic right to vote against this proposal with telegrams including our nation. The irony of it all. What's wrong you don't like our democratic right to say no to your proposal? Did you really think a telegram saying to change our mind about our vote would change our mind? All it did was prove that we were right voting against this. We are sick and tired of these telegrams trying to sway our nations to vote in other nations favour. If you are losing so badly that you need telegrams to try to sway nations who voted against your proposal or even those who didn't even vote yet you might as well pack it up buddy and leave cause there is no way your proposal is winning. Also it's undemocratic to try to sway voters. Again the irony of it all.

turning into an alternative for counter-campaigning any telegram getting to vote,

This is I voted against this proposal to protect my democratic right to vote how I want on the world assembly without some nation who made a bad proposal and is losing votes to suddenly try to sway my vote.

Don't ever try to use telegrams to sway our vote.

[ShrewLlamaLand]

If you want quorum raiding removed, break the game. Quorum raid every single proposal out of both the SC and GA queue for a long enough period of time and completely bring the World Assembly to a halt - eventually admins will be forced to change game mechanics.

Otherwise it seems like this bad practice is here to stay. This declaration was worthless, has no meaning regardless of whether it passed or not, and wouldn't have had any effect on quorum raiding anyway.

[Jutsa]

It is a complete irony that the author and the supporters of the proposal that tried to condemn something "undemocratic" tried to sway those who used their democratic right to vote against this proposal with telegrams including our nation.

What's undemocratic about that? We're making sure you're informed enough to make your educated decision; it's not like we're actively taking your vote away from you.
edit: in fact more people voted against this proposal after I did sent mine... if that's not fair democracy I don't know what is.

If you want quorum raiding removed, break the game. Quorum raid every single proposal out of both the SC and GA queue for a long enough period of time and completely bring the World Assembly to a halt - eventually admins will be forced to change game mechanics.

I've legitimately thought about how bonkers funny this would be.

This is a lesson that nobody ever seems to learn: Words don't stop any form of raiding.

Otherwise it seems like this bad practice is here to stay. This declaration was worthless, has no meaning regardless of whether it passed or not, and wouldn't have had any effect on quorum raiding anyway.

I openly acknowledge it's absolutely worthless. That doesn't mean we still shouldn't pass a resolution, in an assembly that generally ICly condemns raiding in general which is having its intended mechanics circumnavigated by legal abuses by shrewd politicians, which ICly condemns quorum raiding. Like.

Literally, how does that not happen?

[Religious Lennox]

Plus we need people to support this to just sayin'.

Ain’t happening sunshine. This Declaration is being declared DOA.

I ain't yo sunshine.

[Reploid Productions]

If you want quorum raiding removed, break the game. Quorum raid every single proposal out of both the SC and GA queue for a long enough period of time and completely bring the World Assembly to a halt - eventually admins will be forced to change game mechanics.

Otherwise it seems like this bad practice is here to stay. This declaration was worthless, has no meaning regardless of whether it passed or not, and wouldn't have had any effect on quorum raiding anyway.

Quick note before anyone gets the idea to try this:
Admin will not remove the ability to quorum raid. If it ever becomes a problem as described, they would probably just make adjustments to balance the difficulty of actually doing so rather than simply getting rid of it. As noted awhile back:

It is also important to remember that quorum raiding is still politics. Sleazy, dirty politics, but politics nonetheless.

I doubt the techies will be on board for any change that completely stops or bans the practice; but they would be more open to making adjustments to make it more balanced. Quorum raiding should still be possible, just not necessarily easy to do.

And with that note, back to your regularly-scheduled proposal postmortem discussion.

[Great Algerstonia]

If you want quorum raiding removed, break the game. Quorum raid every single proposal out of both the SC and GA queue for a long enough period of time and completely bring the World Assembly to a halt - eventually admins will be forced to change game mechanics.

Otherwise it seems like this bad practice is here to stay. This declaration was worthless, has no meaning regardless of whether it passed or not, and wouldn't have had any effect on quorum raiding anyway.

Quick note before anyone gets the idea to try this:
Admin will not remove the ability to quorum raid. If it ever becomes a problem as described, they would probably just make adjustments to balance the difficulty of actually doing so rather than simply getting rid of it. As noted awhile back:

It is also important to remember that quorum raiding is still politics. Sleazy, dirty politics, but politics nonetheless.

I doubt the techies will be on board for any change that completely stops or bans the practice; but they would be more open to making adjustments to make it more balanced. Quorum raiding should still be possible, just not necessarily easy to do.

And with that note, back to your regularly-scheduled proposal postmortem discussion.

Wack.