The Second Southern Crisis (OOC/MT)

[South Americanastan]

Not a cruise speed, a top speed. The cruise speed would be about Mach 1.5. .50 BMG flies at 4,000 ft/s, which equals 2,727 MPH, which is about Mach 4.

…Which doesn’t fix anything at all. MiG-25 too had a top speed of 3 M and a lower cruise speed, still behaving like a brick at subsonic speeds. If you’re looking for a more modern example, latest modifications of MiG-31 are pretty much the same story.
That depends on what it was fired from. Since you’ve specified that the guns installed on your fighters are Brownings, I’ll assume that you’re using an M3 Browning which has a muzzle velocity around 890 ms or 3204 kph. However, if we factor in the distances which the bullet has to travel before reaching the target, as well as the relative speed of the Fokker and Lightning the speed will drop even further. Compare that to an M-61 20-mm cannon which has a way higher muzzle velocity of approx 1050 ms AND which one’s round weights more, thus having higher intention thus loosing speed slower.

First off, don't even try to use the speed of the Fokker, because you don't have a goddamn factbook on it. And considering you can't be flying any faster than Mach 2 by your own logic, the .50 cal would still have a relative speed of Mach 2. I'm using M903 SLAP rounds, by the way, which can go at 4,000 ft/s and can penetrate 3/4" of armor at nearly a mile away.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

First off, don't even try to use the speed of the Fokker, because you don't have a goddamn factbook on it. And considering you can't be flying any faster than Mach 2 by your own logic, the .50 cal would still have a relative speed of Mach 2. I'm using M903 SLAP rounds, by the way, which can go at 4,000 ft/s and can penetrate 3/4" of armor at nearly a mile away.

Yes, because it was stated before that a Fokker is pretty much an Su-57. It’s in the plane’s number, it’s in my app.

Well congratulations on using AP ammo on aerial targets, guess what’s going to go wrong. (Also please don’t use imperial measurements only you amerikans can measure things in football fields and giraffes).

My main argument of problems that arise with using MG ammo as fighter aircraft ammo in modern combat still stands: you’re rounds have lower inertia thus will have worse ballistics thus wil, be easier to evade.

Furthermore you’ve stated nothing against my main argument of all planes that can go above M3 behaving like bricks at M1

[South Americanastan]

First off, don't even try to use the speed of the Fokker, because you don't have a goddamn factbook on it. And considering you can't be flying any faster than Mach 2 by your own logic, the .50 cal would still have a relative speed of Mach 2. I'm using M903 SLAP rounds, by the way, which can go at 4,000 ft/s and can penetrate 3/4" of armor at nearly a mile away.

Yes, because it was stated before that a Fokker is pretty much an Su-57. It’s in the plane’s number, it’s in my app.

Well congratulations on using AP ammo on aerial targets, guess what’s going to go wrong. (Also please don’t use imperial measurements only you amerikans can measure things in football fields and giraffes).

My main argument of problems that arise with using MG ammo as fighter aircraft ammo in modern combat still stands: you’re rounds have lower inertia thus will have worse ballistics thus wil, be easier to evade.

Furthermore you’ve stated nothing against my main argument of all planes that can go above M3 behaving like bricks at M1

Again, it can't go above M3. It's top speed is M3. It's cruising speed is M1.5, so it being able to behave well at M1 is very plausible.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Again, it can't go above M3. It's top speed is M3. It's cruising speed is M1.5, so it being able to behave well at M1 is very plausible.

Again you’ve misunderstood me. What I mean to say is that planes designed to fly at M-3 ALWAYS behave like barely flying bricks at M1. If you have an example of IRL planes that can prove otherwise please present it. I can also go in deep into explaining using basic aerodynamics why designing an aircraframe that can resist flutter at M3 while still allowing the plane to be at least decently maneuverable at M1 is impossible.

[South Americanastan]

Again, it can't go above M3. It's top speed is M3. It's cruising speed is M1.5, so it being able to behave well at M1 is very plausible.

Again you’ve misunderstood me. What I mean to say is that planes designed to fly at M-3 ALWAYS behave like barely flying bricks at M1. If you have an example of IRL planes that can prove otherwise please present it. I can also go in deep into explaining using basic aerodynamics why designing an aircraframe that can resist flutter at M3 while still allowing the plane to be at least decently maneuverable at M1 is impossible.

Since your the only person who's ever had a problem with the speed (Even Svenska, who had to fight the godmod edition I had back when I first started), please, enlighten me.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Again you’ve misunderstood me. What I mean to say is that planes designed to fly at M-3 ALWAYS behave like barely flying bricks at M1. If you have an example of IRL planes that can prove otherwise please present it. I can also go in deep into explaining using basic aerodynamics why designing an aircraframe that can resist flutter at M3 while still allowing the plane to be at least decently maneuverable at M1 is impossible.

Since your the only person who's ever had a problem with the speed (Even Svenska, who had to fight the godmod edition I had back when I first started), please, enlighten me.

Well, putting the things extremely simple, when an aircraft is flying at M3 it possesses, simply put, different characteristics then when it’s flying at M1 and/or lower. Basically when the aircraft goes supersonic, local shock waves from small and not very aircraft elements add up to one - a shock wave that follows the aircraft throughout the entire flight at supersonic. The location of this shockwave changes as the speed of the plane increases, moving backwards thus changing the aicraft’s characteristics. During this, all values ​​change abruptly. Most importantly, the location of the CoT and CoL change. It is because of this thing that the aicrafts that are built to be controllable at M-3 tend to turn into bricks at M1. Surer this can be countered by doing things like pumping fuel between different tanks, and in some cases, variable sweep wings (Sukhoi T-4MS project is a good example of this, but that’s another story). Still, this isn’t a panacea. Moreover than that, wings designed not to rip because of flutter at M3 produce a very small amount of lift at M1 and lower, thus resulting in worse maneuverability and stability overall. While some of these problems can be solved with modern fly by wire systems, again, it’s not a panacea.

If you have trouble understanding anything I’ve said above please tell be- I’m not very good in technical English

[South Americanastan]

Since your the only person who's ever had a problem with the speed (Even Svenska, who had to fight the godmod edition I had back when I first started), please, enlighten me.

Well, putting the things extremely simple, when an aircraft is flying at M3 it possesses, simply put, different characteristics then when it’s flying at M1 and/or lower. Basically when the aircraft goes supersonic, local shock waves from small and not very aircraft elements add up to one - a shock wave that follows the aircraft throughout the entire flight at supersonic. The location of this shockwave changes as the speed of the plane increases, moving backwards thus changing the aicraft’s characteristics. During this, all values ​​change abruptly. Most importantly, the location of the CoT and CoL change. It is because of this thing that the aicrafts that are built to be controllable at M-3 tend to turn into bricks at M1. Surer this can be countered by doing things like pumping fuel between different tanks, and in some cases, variable sweep wings (Sukhoi T-4MS project is a good example of this, but that’s another story). Still, this isn’t a panacea. Moreover than that, wings designed not to rip because of flutter at M3 produce a very small amount of lift at M1 and lower, thus resulting in worse maneuverability and stability overall. While some of these problems can be solved with modern fly by wire systems, again, it’s not a panacea.

If you have trouble understanding anything I’ve said above please tell be- I’m not very good in technical English

While yes it isn’t a panacea it’s still possible. Not optimal by any means, but it’s possible.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

While yes it isn’t a panacea it’s still possible. Not optimal by any means, but it’s possible.

When such “not impossible just extremely hard” solutions overlay you start to get shit like XP-67 Moonbat or early MiG-23’s. That’s because there are small, say, under-the-water problems in each and every single of the technical solutions that I’ve mentioned above. I also forgot to mention that planes that fly at Mach-3 tend to either being literally built around thermal protection (SR-71 being a very good example of this) or tend to suffer extreme stress in the airframe and the engine at such speeds (MiG-25) and require a lot of service once their land. A LOT of service- MiG’s engines had to be literally replaced after M3 flights.

[Kauzat]

- Full nation name: The Republic Of Kauzatia
- What side are you supporting? (Erduit or the rebels): Erduit
- Stated reason for support: just helping out
- Private reason for support (if any): rebels don't sound good, Kauzatia wants to get rid of them
- Military aid (if any): occasional airdrops, and bombing the rebels.
- Monetary aid (if any): n/a
- Other aid (if any):
- Rule confirmation: i have read the rules

ooc note: I hope I filled this out correctly.

[South Americanastan]

While yes it isn’t a panacea it’s still possible. Not optimal by any means, but it’s possible.

When such “not impossible just extremely hard” solutions overlay you start to get shit like XP-67 Moonbat or early MiG-23’s. That’s because there are small, say, under-the-water problems in each and every single of the technical solutions that I’ve mentioned above. I also forgot to mention that planes that fly at Mach-3 tend to either being literally built around thermal protection (SR-71 being a very good example of this) or tend to suffer extreme stress in the airframe and the engine at such speeds (MiG-25) and require a lot of service once their land. A LOT of service- MiG’s engines had to be literally replaced after M3 flights.

Alright, I'll edit it so they go at Mach 2.