[suggestion] new WA classifications and/or description text

[SherpDaWerp]

Following discussion here, here, and here - I've decided to just make a new thread to discuss new/amended text for WA classification names and description sentences.

Currently, the names/texts are as follows:

• Anarchy - live in a state of perpetual fear, as a complete breakdown of social order has led to the rise of order through biker gangs.
• Civil Rights Lovefest - hold their civil and political rights very dear, although the wealthy and those in business tend to be viewed with suspicion.
• Left-Wing Utopia - are free to do what they want with their own bodies, and vote for whomever they like in elections; if they go into business, however, they are regulated to within an inch of their lives.
• Capitalizt - enjoy some of the most opulent lifestyles in the region, unless they are unemployed or working-class, in which case they are variously starving to death or crippled by easily preventable diseases.
• Left-Leaning College State - enjoy extensive civil freedoms, particularly in social issues, while business tends to be more regulated.
• Scandinavian Liberal Paradise - enjoy extensive civil rights and enjoy a level of social equality free from the usual accompanying government corruption.
• Benevolent Dictatorship - enjoy great individual freedoms in everything except elections, which, where they exist at all, are populist shams for a dictatorship government that has no intention of ever giving up power.
• Libertarian Police State - are proud of their wide-ranging civil freedoms, and those who aren't tend to be dragged off the streets by men in dark suits and hustled into cars with tinted windows.
• Iron Fist Socialist - are ruled with an iron fist by the socialist government, which grants its people the freedom to do whatever they like so long as it doesn't involve getting richer than anybody else or challenging the government.
• Corporate Bordello - are effectively ruled by a group of massive corporations, who run for political office and provide their well-off citizens with world-class goods and services. Their poorer citizens, however, are mostly starving to death while being urged to go out and get real jobs. The populace has reasonably extensive civil rights, although these are mostly aimed at allowing them to buy whatever they like.
• New York Times Democracy - enjoy a sensible mix of personal and economic freedoms, while the political process is open and the people's right to vote held sacrosanct.
• Liberal Democratic Socialists - love a good election, and the government gives them plenty of them. Universities tend to be full of students debating the merits of various civil and political rights, while businesses are tightly regulated and the wealthy viewed with suspicion.
• Inoffensive Centrist Democracy - have some civil rights, but not too many, enjoy the freedom to spend their money however they like, to a point, and take part in free and open elections, although not too often.
• Democratic Socialists - are fiercely patriotic and enjoy great social equality; they tend to view other, more capitalist countries as somewhat immoral and corrupt.
• Compulsory Consumerist State - are rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night.
• Mother/Father Knows Best State - are ruled by a mostly-benevolent dictator, who grants the populace the freedom to live their own lives but watches carefully for anyone to slip up.
• Corrupt Dictatorship - are ruled with an iron fist by the dictatorship government, which ensures that no-one outside the party gets too rich. In their personal lives, however, citizens are relatively unoppressed; it remains to be seen whether this is because the government genuinely cares about its people, or if it hasn't gotten around to stamping out civil rights yet.
• Free-Market Paradise - enjoy frequent elections, which are uniformly corrupted by big-spending corporations buying politicians who best suit their interests.
• Conservative Democracy - are known throughout the region for their efficiency and work ethic, as well as their general suspicion of leisure.
• Tyranny By Majority - enjoy great social freedoms and frequent elections, where the majority of the populace regularly votes to increase its benefits at the expense of various hapless minorities.
• Right-Wing Utopia - are free to succeed or fail in life on their own merits; the successful tend to enjoy an opulent (but moralistic) lifestyle, while the failures can be seen crowding out most jails.
• Moralistic Democracy - are highly moralistic and fiercely conservative, in the sense that they tend to believe most things should be outlawed. People who have good jobs and work quietly at them are lauded; others are viewed with suspicion.
• Authoritarian Democracy - are prohibited from doing almost everything except voting, which they do timidly and conservatively.
• Corporate Police State - are ruled with an iron fist by the corrupt, dictatorship government, which oppresses anyone who isn't on the board of a Fortune 500 company. Large corporations tend to be above the law, and use their financial clout to gain ever-increasing government benefits at the expense of the poor and unemployed.
• Iron Fist Consumerists - are kept under strict control by the oppressive government, which measures its success by the nation's GDP and refers to individual citizens as "human resources."
• Psychotic Dictatorship - are ruled without fear or favor by a psychotic dictator, who outlaws just about everything and refers to the populace as "my little playthings."

I'd flag issues with the Anarchy description text, the Tyranny By Majority description text, as well as the names of "Democratic Socialists", "Capitalist Paradise", "Liberal Democratic Socialist", "Iron Fist Socialist", and potentially "Capitalizt" classifications. If anyone else spots anything out-of-place or potentially weird, raise your hand and we can discuss that too.

The Anarchy text paints @@NAME@@ as ruled by "biker gangs" regardless of the amount of existing government, law enforcement, or any other form of central organisation, and should be changed to more emphasise that the people can do whatever they want. With the further decoupling of "freedom to commit crime" from civil rights in the recent betas, this is even more prudent, as high civil rights now has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of crime you can commit (which is what I'd imply from "social order has broken down").

live without any regulation whatsoever, as the government seems to have decided they're all better off without much government.

The Tyranny By Majority text mentions high social freedoms (as brought up by Dabarastan) despite the classification being predicated on low (< 33.33) civil rights. This is contradictory and needs to be changed. We have two suggestions:

enjoy frequent elections and little all else, as the majority of the populace regularly votes to further decrease their freedoms, seemingly without any rhyme or reason.

enjoy great freedoms in the political process and not much else, as they happily vote to increase the government's power.

And the names of the various classifications I mentioned all include an economic system name, which is an entirely separate policy flag from the classification system. Indeed, it is easily possible to be a "capitalist Democratic Socialist", a "socialist Capitalist Paradise", or others. Whether this change involves a "mother/father knows best state" style system, where you get one of two classification names depending on the socialist/capitalist policy being active, or just flat out renaming, remains to be argued over.

I tried thinking of alternatives myself, but it's bloody hard to think of a single word that's an effective synonym for "Socialists" that isn't too much of a value judgement; I briefly considered "Progressives", but it just seems too much like a positive adjective. And as for Capitalist Paradise... well, Free Market Paradise already exists, otherwise it would be easy.
Thanks to Merni, we have 2/4 new names without direct references to economic systems:

• Democratic Socialists -> Social Democracy
• Liberal Democratic Socialists -> Liberal Social Democracy
• Iron Fist Socialists -> ?
• Capitalist Paradise ->

Finally, for anyone who doesn't know, or so we have the image on hand if it comes up -

[Merconitonitopia]

I'm going to ditto the sentiment that the write-up descriptions should be changed. They often make assumptions that aren't consistent with other facts present in-universe.
That said, I'm going to dispute your description of Tyranny by Majority. My nation (which was sadly declassified from TbM) has a very consistent and predictable ideology when it comes to social issues and economics.
I would replace it with something like so:

...enjoy great freedoms in the political process and not much else, as they happily vote to increase the government's power.

I'm also going to say that I'm not a fan of renaming categories to remove reference to economic systems. This would make the names less meaningful, and you'd have to rename at least eight categories.
But if you really wanted to solve the economic system problem, I'd instead add a fourth category to the economic axis exclusive to socialists (of any underlying EF score). Then we'd get to keep our existing categories and add nine more for a total of 36 (quite a few, but not too many IMO).

[Merni]

Perhaps "democratic socialism" and its "liberal" counterpart could be replaced with "social democracy" in nations without the Socialism policy.

[Sedgistan]

I think that as part of what we're going to do, is go over each part of the nation page and review for any improvements / updates that can be made, and the text descriptors for WA classifications will be part of that (no timeframe on this, there's a lot on our plate). Adding more flavour and ironing out inconsistencies will be part of that when feasible. But it's important that the satirical angle of NS isn't lost in that process - and the biker gangs are part of that character.

[Frankland]

I thought “Capitalizt” was Max’s word for a society that has seen private enterprises surpass the state in terms of authority. Or your employer has more control over you than a government perhaps.

Y’know. Like the book this game is based on. I think that is a government type, and something I like. The game was based on a fictional book where an economic system became the political system basically.

[Most Catholic Empire of Antarctica]

Please consider these revisions:


Anarchy as it is now is acceptable. More insulting would be better though- I suggest comparing them to an ape or perhaps a diseased camel.

I propose replacing Libertarian Police State with "Fascist Homosexuals", New York Times Democracy with "Reactionary Dog-Jews", and Free Market Paradise with "Domain of Satan".

Tyranny by Majority should be described as "a highly disturbing state of affairs where the people seem to do the job of our glorious general secretary themselves".

"Liberal Democratic Socialists" should be changed to "Well Disguised Capitalists" description: "these feckless swine pretend at socialism with their foolish "elections"- do not be fooled by their tactics of appeasement."

Replace Iron Fist Consumerist with "Dengist Revisionist Pig-Scum" and the pathetic "Inoffensive Centrist Democracy" with "Future Missile Base"

Corrupt Dictatorship with "People's Democratic Republic" description: "scandalously licentious, excellent political freedoms"

Civil Rights Lovefest, Left-Leaning College State, Scandinavian Liberal Paradise, and Leftwing Utopia (obviously wrong BTW, that is our glorious quadrant) should all be changed to reference their mutual love of gays, rioters, vegans, furries, twitter accounts, and expensive lattes.

Capitalizt and Capitalist Paradise should be "Ayn Rand Fan Club" and "Autistic Colony" description: "The leader of this country read atlas shrugged and has narcissistic personality disorder, so do the insufferable citizens".

Pro-tip- if you must use "election" or "rights" put these in scare quotes as they do not exist!!! Both were invented by Freemasons to deceive the masses

Here is a list of synonyms for socialist for you to use: "Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-People's Glorious Antarctican Revolutionist"- there are no others! ALL other so-called "socialists" are fascists!!! We are not, stop calling us fascist!!!

Finally and MOST critically, "Psychotic Dictatorship", this massive slander of our glorious people's state should be replaced with "RIGHTEOUS EMPIRE OF THE PEOPLE'S ETERNAL REVOLUTION" description: "The ultimate form of government in which reactionary elements can never prevail over the GREAT DICTATORSHIP OF THE PEOPLE- GLORY TO THE CENTRAL PARTY COMITEE FOR ALL TIME!!!!"

Thank you- for more descriptions though you will have to wait as our diplomatic staff in the department of insults are severely overworked at the moment as we had to send one undersecretary and his juniors to a nickel mine.

[Sedgistan]

<snip>

*** Warned for trolling *** And don't even think about claiming that post was "in character"; Technical is a 100% OOC forum.

[Bears Armed]

Please consider these revisions:
*<snip>*

Go the the 'Settings' page for your nation, and look at the drop-down menu for Themes: The 'Liberal' one (preserved, like the 'Conservative' one, from an April Fools' Day event...) is probably as close as you're likely to get in that direction.

[Merconitonitopia]

I think that as part of what we're going to do, is go over each part of the nation page and review for any improvements / updates that can be made, and the text descriptors for WA classifications will be part of that (no timeframe on this, there's a lot on our plate). Adding more flavour and ironing out inconsistencies will be part of that when feasible. But it's important that the satirical angle of NS isn't lost in that process - and the biker gangs are part of that character.

The humour isn't lost on me. And NS's characteristic humour is part of what makes it NS. But you have to ask whether that humour is appropriate when it's in blatant contradiction with in-universe facts.
The game tells you about Mad Max in one breath, and in the next, about your big government, strong economy, low crime rates, and well-funded police force.
There's a trade-off to be reckoned with here.

[SherpDaWerp]

I'm also going to say that I'm not a fan of renaming categories to remove reference to economic systems. This would make the names less meaningful, and you'd have to rename at least eight categories.

I'm not interested in removing all references, just the ones that let blatantly contradictory stuff happen, like having a socialist Capitalist Paradise. For instance, "Libertarian" socialists sound like an oxymoron, but you can have a generally-less-regulated socialism according to whatever specific subfreedoms are being measured.

Perhaps "democratic socialism" and its "liberal" counterpart could be replaced with "social democracy" in nations without the Socialism policy.

That would be a decent alternative name, thanks!

I think that as part of what we're going to do, is go over each part of the nation page and review for any improvements / updates that can be made, and the text descriptors for WA classifications will be part of that (no timeframe on this, there's a lot on our plate). Adding more flavour and ironing out inconsistencies will be part of that when feasible. But it's important that the satirical angle of NS isn't lost in that process - and the biker gangs are part of that character.

Cool. I'd attempted something along the lines of that with the "government not doing government" thing, but my satire isn't as good as Max, for obvious reasons. Feel free to imagine me saying something like what Merconitonitopia said here, too, cause I agree with their latest post entirely.

I thought “Capitalizt” was Max’s word for a society that has seen private enterprises surpass the state in terms of authority. Or your employer has more control over you than a government perhaps.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned it as a very tentative change. "Capitalizt" was Max's own invention for the Jennifer Government book that kinda started this whole thing, so it's probably worth overlooking the occasional erroneous "socialist Capitalizt" that might crop up just for the value of keeping that one.