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Who is America's greatest president?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

According to you, who was America's greatest President?

George Washington
42
12%
Thomas Jefferson
5
1%
James Madison
1
0%
Abraham Lincoln
78
23%
Theodore Roosevelt
46
13%
Franklin D. Roosevelt
71
21%
Dwight Eisenhower
5
1%
John F. Kennedy
18
5%
Ronald Reagan
18
5%
Other
57
17%
 
Total votes : 341

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-Ra-
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Who is America's greatest president?

Postby -Ra- » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:12 pm

Hello, NationStates.

The United States has been fortunate enough to have a very diverse cast of characters serve in the government's top job, the presidency. Men from all over the country, representing different ideals, professions, and backgrounds have assumed the post. Of the 44 different men (not 45! Remember that Cleveland served twice) who have occupied the position, some are hailed as visionary statesmen, others as incredibly ineffective and incompetent do-nothings who led corrupt or sclerotic governments, and most are largely forgotten by the general public.

Opinions on which man we should confer the title "greatest president" vary widely. In the poll I included some of the most common contenders, specifically this ranking, though my list excludes Truman and Jackson in favor of adding a Reagan and Other option to keep things interesting. The top choices usually come around to George Washington (America's first president), Abraham Lincoln (president during the Civil War who issued the Emancipation Proclamation) and Franklin D. Roosevelt (president who steered the country during the Great Depression and Second World War).

So, in your opinion, which president do you think has left the greatest positive impact on the American nation? Tell us why you think so.



Image
I would like to briefly make the case why I think George Washington is undoubtedly America's greatest leader. In my opinion, George Washington is not only America's greatest president, but he also stands with Caesar Augustus and Cyrus the Great as one of the three greatest statesmen to have ever lived.

Born in Virginia and trained as a surveyor, George Washington rose to prominence for his feats in the French and Indian War, a theatre of the Seven Years' War. Washington was selected as one of Virginia's representatives to the Continental Congress, where he supported the colonists' cause for independence. When the Continental Army was created, Washington was made its commander-in-chief.

As a military leader, Washington was not particularly noteworthy in his own right. He never showed Napoleon's tactical and strategic brilliance, and his greatest victory, defeating Cornwallis at Yorktown, can be attributed more accurately to superior logistics than mastery over the art of war. Nevertheless, Washington was an exceptionally formidable commander, leading a plucky, rag-tag and poorly-equipped army against what was then the greatest military power in the world, famously crossing the Delaware River in the heart of winter and dealing impressive defeats against the British in the battles of Trenton and Princeton. Washington's genius also lay in the men he chose as his subordinates, particularly John Knox and Alexander Hamilton, and his cultivation of America's first spy network, the Culper Ring.

Out of all of Washington's military achievements, none are quite as impressive as the respect that his men gave to him. One of my favorite stories from all of history is Washington's suppression of the Newburgh Conspiracy. Patriot soldiers who were dissatisfied with their lack of pay circulated plans for a coup against the Confederation Congress. Washington, who caught wind of the plot, showed up at Newburgh unannounced and read a speech, now known as the Newburgh Address, attacking the attempted coup and defending republicanism. After he finished the speech, the tired and aging Washington took out his glasses, which few ever saw him wear, and said, "Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my country." At once, Washington's words moved many of the men in the room to tears, and quickly put to rest any talk of conspiracy. Although Napoleon was the greater general, no man has ever so embodied the principles he preached as Washington.

Image

Following the Thirteen Colonies' victory over the British, it was natural for many to expect that Washington, the leader of the victorious army, would swiftly move to seize power and wrest control of the new nation from the Congress. He did not. Instead, in what artist John Trumbull described as "one of the highest moral lessons ever given to the world", George Washington voluntarily resigned his commission, returned to his beloved Mount Vernon, and left the country in the hands of the Congress. This move greatly shocked many in Europe. George III, the British monarch during the American Revolution, remarked that Washington's decision to resign his commission made him "the greatest character of the age." Washington's decision to resign, to go away, and not to take power is arguably the most pivotal development in the history of modern democracy.

Shay's Rebellion convinced Washington that the political order ordained by the Articles of Confederation could not last, and he went to Philadelphia to serve as the chairman of the Constitution Convention. Soon after the American Constitution was ratified, Washington was elected America's first president, a post he would hold for the next eight years. His presidency saw the development of America's core cabinet institutions, the creation of the First National Bank, rapprochement with Britain with the signing of Jay's Treaty and improved relations with Spain through Pinckney's Treaty, and suppression of the Whiskey Rebellion. Following two successful terms in office, Washington decided to recede from political life forever, issuing his Farewell Address, which warned the nation's future leaders against foreign entanglements and the emergence of new political parties. Washington set the precedent of American presidents serving no more than two terms, a tradition that was only broken by FDR. Washington once more gave up what could have been absolute power, retiring to Mount Vernon where he would die a few years later.

Washington also embodied many of the virtues and values for which the United States is often celebrated. Speaking about refugees, Washington said, “I had always hoped that this land might become a safe and agreeable asylum to the virtuous and persecuted part of mankind, to whatever nation they might belong.” In a letter to the Jewish community of Newport R.I., Washington wrote, "For happily the Government of the United States gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." Washington was the only slaveholding president to free all of his slaves on the occasion of his death.

In summary view, I think Washington's decision to voluntarily cede power not once, but twice and deny the crown already makes him one of history's most virtuous statesmen, and that does not even consider the rest of his monumental achievements. Washington's status as an icon of republicanism is well deserved. John Locke created liberal democracy, but Washington's valour and virtue ensured that it survived to the present day. You only have to look at the history of South America or Africa to see how horribly common it is for post-revolutionary leaders to seize power for themselves and betray the very principles around which they organised their revolution. What if America had a leader like Rupert Mugabe as its revolutionary leader? The history of the country, of democracy, and of the world would be much darker for it. In all of recorded human history we can find very few examples of leaders who, faced with the temptation of amassing total power in their own person, instead decline it and remit their authority into the hands of others. Washington could have been king, and he would have probably been a very good one, but he decided not to be, and he's the greater man for it.

Napoleon himself once said, "Posterity will talk of Washington as the founder of a great empire, when my name shall be lost in the vortex of revolution." Lincoln freed the slaves and FDR established the American welfare state. But Washington, he is for all time.
Last edited by -Ra- on Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Kubra » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:14 pm

Me
I'm the greatest president of the United States
The working class can kiss my ass
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Postby Badjuristan » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:16 pm

great ol' abe
he's a great guy
abolished slavery
did some other stuff
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:27 pm

Taft was certainly the largest president, does that count?
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Postby Kowani » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:31 pm

my man william henry harrison did nothing wrong
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Postby Nilokeras » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:46 pm

As the immortal angry South Korean grandma said best:

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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:47 pm

Kowani wrote:my man william henry harrison did nothing wrong


Well there was all that land grab he did in Indiana and then of course he saved us from the people who were pissed their land was taken.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:48 pm

Nilokeras wrote:As the immortal angry South Korean grandma said best:



Sorry. I already forgot her after I clicked hide.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:50 pm

George Washington. He was one of the few presidents to fight his own war, and despite being allowed to be president for more than 2 terms, he decided to step down and allow someone else a turn.
Last edited by Borderlands of Rojava on Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Deblar » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:51 pm

Badjuristan wrote:great ol' abe
he's a great guy
abolished slavery
did some other stuff

To be fair, Lincoln abolished slavery mostly as another reason to win the civil war and keep Britain from getting involved on the Confederate side. While he did believe that slavery was awful, he was still a bit of a white supremacist.
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:52 pm

Deblar wrote:
Badjuristan wrote:great ol' abe
he's a great guy
abolished slavery
did some other stuff

To be fair, Lincoln abolished slavery mostly as another reason to win the civil war and keep Britain from getting involved on the Confederate side. While he did believe that slavery was awful, he was still a bit of a white supremacist.


Tbh most white Americans were back then. People who really believed in racial equality were the radical left at the time.
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Postby Kowani » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:53 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kowani wrote:my man william henry harrison did nothing wrong


Well there was all that land grab he did in Indiana and then of course he saved us from the people who were pissed their land was taken.

i was mostly speaking about as president, but yes
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Postby Lady Victory » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:56 pm

Deblar wrote:
Badjuristan wrote:great ol' abe
he's a great guy
abolished slavery
did some other stuff

To be fair, Lincoln abolished slavery mostly as another reason to win the civil war and keep Britain from getting involved on the Confederate side. While he did believe that slavery was awful, he was still a bit of a white supremacist.


No he didn't. He abolished slavery because he was morally opposed to it and because it was a more potent cause to rally around than just "keep the Union together".

The British were never going to help the Confederacy and only the Confederates believed otherwise. That was a Southern pipe dream cooked up by the same propagandists that came up with the "King Cotton" nonsense. The cotton gin made slave labor obsolete.
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:01 pm

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Postby New Swaraelia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:04 pm

Polls conducted generally put Abraham Lincoln, George Washington or Franklin Roosevelt as first, in that order, generally due to their presumably timeless qualities of competence. I would agree.
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Postby Deblar » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:08 pm

Out of these choices, I’m gonna have to go with FDR. When he was elected, he had inherited quite the mess from Hoover, and he managed to turn it all around. He created relief programs for the worse off during the Depression, managed to get people back up on their feet in large thanks to the New Deal, and steered America through most of the bloodiest conflict in American history.

Also, who could forget, he made alcohol legal again, absolute legend.
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Postby Catsfern » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:13 pm

my vote goes for good ol Teddy Roosevelt
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:17 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Black Forrest wrote:
Well there was all that land grab he did in Indiana and then of course he saved us from the people who were pissed their land was taken.

i was mostly speaking about as president, but yes


Oh I know. Him dying probably saved him from future scrutiny. He probably would have continued his views as POTUS……
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* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
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Postby Atheris » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:17 pm

Good question. Very good question. I don't think there's necessarily a single answer to who was the greatest president. You have a lot of good choices; Washington, Lincoln, the Roosevelts, Eisenhower, and Kennedy, to just name a few who I believe were the most influential.

Washington single-handedly forged the first modern liberal democracy in the world, served with aplomb during the Revolution, and set the two-term precedent. Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery and proved to be an intelligent and capable man in times of stress. Teddy Roosevelt trust-busted, established national parks, brokered the 1906 treaty between Russia and Japan (for which he earned a Nobel Prize), and gave an hour long speech after getting shot. Frankie Roosevelt brought us out of the Depression, ended prohibition, established a robust security net (that's sadly been bastardized), led the war against fascism for 3 years before his untimely death, and knew how to reach out to the common man. Eisenhower established the interstate system, led to a peaceful conclusion of the Suez Crisis, signed the first substantial civil rights legislation since 1875, authorized NASA, and if you want to include his accomplishments in War devised the D-Day operation which saved Western Europe from five decades of Soviet domination and Operation Torch which liberated western Africa from the Axis. John F. Kennedy swore to land a man on the Moon, which we did in 1969, saved the world from thermonuclear annihilation, possibly supported African nationalism (he gave a speech where he said "we, too, founded a new nation on revolt from colonial rule"), pushed forward major civil rights legislation, and signed the first nuclear testing ban treaty. He also thought he was a jelly donut.

Not to say that their times as President were all good. Washington owned slaves, Lincoln was arguably authoritarian, Teddy Roosevelt was an imperialist who destabilized Colombia and Panama, FDR went for an unprecedented 4 terms in office and potentially withheld information about Pearl Harbor (which is still a subject for debate) so that the US would be dragged into WW2, Eisenhower orchestrated anti-government coups in Guatemala, Iran, and set in motion the Bay of Pigs invasion, Kennedy hid his health problems and extramarital affairs as well as funding South Vietnam and botched the Bay of Pigs.

I feel like the idea of a "greatest" president in American history can really be boiled down to two men; George Washington and Theodore Roosevelt.
Last edited by Atheris on Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby The Democratic Nation of Unovia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:18 pm

I am a major fanboy of FDR. He fought the Great Depression, lead us during WWII, brought alcohol back, created the modern American alliances, set the stage for the middle class, and showed that the Federal Government was needed to bring the Nation out of the depths.

All while being disabled. As they said about him, "He lifted himself from a chair to save a nation on its knees".
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Postby Drongonia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:18 pm

Richard Nixon.

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Postby Atheris » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:21 pm

Drongonia wrote:Richard Nixon.

No, I will not elaborate ;)

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