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A Thought Experiment Regarding Punishment vs Rehabilitation

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What happens to the murderer?

Punishment
31
54%
Rehabilitation (with the future knowledge)
26
46%
 
Total votes : 57

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Infected Mushroom
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A Thought Experiment Regarding Punishment vs Rehabilitation

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:57 am

Please consider the following very straightforward hypothetical:

Someone has murdered someone very close to you. They did so in cold blood, with pre-planning, and with malice.

They are arrested and put on trial.

A supernatural being comes to you and tells you that you must choose between two outcomes (whatever you choose, the court will be influenced to find in that direction by supernatural mechanisms and no appeal will be successful):

Option 1: The murderer gets punished with the harshest sentence in the land (you can decide whether that’s life or death sentence)

Option 2: The murderer gets sent down a path of rehabilitation and restorative justice. After 3 years, they are free to walk again. Please assume that you have pre-existing knowledge that if you pick Option 2, the murderer’s rehabilitated state will be genuine in that for the rest of their lives, they will literally never break the law again. Under this option, they feel genuine remorse while being able to contribute productively to both the economy and society. After a while, they are able to lead a normal life.


Which option will you choose? Please assume that both options are somehow legally defensible outcomes in the hypothetical “land” and that your foreknowledge of the future for Option 2 is genuine.

Please justify.

I would go with Option 2 because it seems to be more socially productive. If I have pre-knowledge that they won’t commit another crime again, then what’s the point in destroying their life just because they destroyed someone else’s?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:59 am

Can I punch the ghost in the face?
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:04 am

Heloin wrote:Can I punch the ghost in the face?

I would also like to beat up this supernatural entity.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:17 am

Ifreann wrote:
Heloin wrote:Can I punch the ghost in the face?

I would also like to beat up this supernatural entity.

'Beat up the ghostie' is sounding like a pretty good option to me, too, honestly.

EDIT: And, no, I don't think that three years is enough for someone who killed with malice aforethought (that is the minimum sentence for non-premeditated manslaughter). To plan a murder, consider it over a period of time and carry it out suggests a level of psychopathy. Someone with such a personality cannot be rehabilitated (although they can feign emotions). Although rehabilitation is a fine principle, some people can never be rehabilitated.

Where that is the case, life-long incarceration for the protection of society is an important possibility.

Anyone who kills with premeditation should automatically be considered for a full-life tariff.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:17 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I would also like to beat up this supernatural entity.

'Beat up the ghostie' is sounding like a pretty good option to me, too, honestly.

Bustin' makes me feel good. 8)
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He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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A m e n r i a
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Postby A m e n r i a » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:19 am

"If you kill a killer, the number of killers stay the same."
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:33 am

Jesus wouldn't kill a criminal so I cannot.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:34 am

Sundiata wrote:Jesus wouldn't kill a criminal so I cannot.

I am opposed to the death penalty. I am not opposed to a full life tariff (whole life sentence, no parole) for the criminals who can't be rehabilitated (I favour rehabilitation and non-custodial sentences for those where it is possible). The OP makes it clear that it does not have to be execution if you pick option one.

Infected Mushroom wrote:Option 1: The murderer gets punished with the harshest sentence in the land (you can decide whether that’s life or death sentence)
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:35 am

I like rehabilitation.... for some crimes. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles, corrupt police/judges, and white collar criminals should face the full punishments. They would be imprisoned for life.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:37 am

Option 3. I tell the supernatural entity thanks, but it's all good, then build my own version of the Saw Games, kidnap the killer and throw him in there and leave him to live or die, the choice is his.

John "Jigsaw" Kramer did say his games rehabilitated those who survived.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:38 am

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:I like rehabilitation.... for some crimes. Murderers, rapists, pedophiles, corrupt police/judges, and white collar criminals should face the full punishments. They would be imprisoned for life.

Absolutely reeling from white collar criminals being equated to child rapists.
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He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:46 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Jesus wouldn't kill a criminal so I cannot.

I am opposed to the death penalty. I am not opposed to a full life tariff (whole life sentence, no parole) for the criminals who can't be rehabilitated (I favour rehabilitation and non-custodial sentences for those where it is possible). The OP makes it clear that it does not have to be execution if you pick option one.

Infected Mushroom wrote:Option 1: The murderer gets punished with the harshest sentence in the land (you can decide whether that’s life or death sentence)

We have to visit prisoners. People in prison are still people, made in the image and likeness of God.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:01 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Option 3. I tell the supernatural entity thanks, but it's all good, then build my own version of the Saw Games, kidnap the killer and throw him in there and leave him to live or die, the choice is his.

John "Jigsaw" Kramer did say his games rehabilitated those who survived.


I’ve heard those movies are really scary. My friend said he went in for one of the Saws at the cinema and within 8 minutes of the start he left because it was too much!

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:04 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Option 3. I tell the supernatural entity thanks, but it's all good, then build my own version of the Saw Games, kidnap the killer and throw him in there and leave him to live or die, the choice is his.

John "Jigsaw" Kramer did say his games rehabilitated those who survived.


I’ve heard those movies are really scary. My friend said he went in for one of the Saws at the cinema and within 8 minutes of the start he left because it was too much!


Maybe I'm a little fucked up but I was struggling not to laugh through the film.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Postby Galloism » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:15 am

A m e n r i a wrote:"If you kill a killer, the number of killers stay the same."

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Postby Senkaku » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:46 am

You're trying to think of a way to get people to not take a literal ghost up on an offer of supernaturally-enforced revenge for the murder of a loved one?
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:46 am

Senkaku wrote:You're trying to think of a way to get people to not take a literal ghost up on an offer of supernaturally-enforced revenge for the murder of a loved one?

Imma fuck this ghost up so bad he's gonna wish I didn't fuck him up so bad.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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VoVoDoCo
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Postby VoVoDoCo » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:52 am

I want to say I’d pick option 2, but in the heat of the moment it would be hard to say.
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Postby Northern Socialist Council Republics » Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:18 pm

I would be rather concerned at the idea of our judicial system being controlled by the whims of a ghost. That’s probably a more serious issue than what happens to a single murderer.

If someone kills a person I love, what I would want is bloody revenge. This is why we have our (at least theoretically) impartial justice system and don’t simply let the relatives of victims decide what happens to violent criminals.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:26 pm

Senkaku wrote:You're trying to think of a way to get people to not take a literal ghost up on an offer of supernaturally-enforced revenge for the murder of a loved one?


I think both answers are defensible.

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Postby The Two Jerseys » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:13 pm

Neither.

Because if I'm choosing the punishment, there will be war crimes committed.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:20 pm

Can I please stop being visited by supernatural entities in the middle of the night?
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:21 pm

Swear to God I'm about to call a priest and make these demons go away.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:49 pm

It's actually rehabilitation, but I wouldn't do the right thing. There must be a third option [Other] + I would ask supernatural beings where they came from and what they knew about the afterlife.
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Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:38 pm

New haven america wrote:Can I please stop being visited by supernatural entities in the middle of the night?

When we moved into this forum they said they moved the Indian cemetery but they only moved the headstones.
Last edited by Heloin on Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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