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Wuhan Lab Might be COVID Origin

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Shofercia
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Wuhan Lab Might be COVID Origin

Postby Shofercia » Tue May 25, 2021 9:18 pm

Linky: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5 ... rious-look

Top U.S. public health officials and experts are increasingly lending credibility to the need for a deeper investigation into the origins of the coronavirus. Scientists who previously downplayed or dismissed the hypothesis that the virus could have leaked from a lab in Wuhan, China, are now increasingly saying there is a need for further investigation. Scientists haven’t discovered definitive proof the virus leaked from a lab. But they also have not found hard evidence that shows the virus started in animals before naturally infecting humans, which is why some now argue an investigation is needed

In addition, recent reporting from The Wall Street Journal cited a U.S. intelligence report that several researchers at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology fell ill with flu-like symptoms in November 2019 — just before the coronavirus began infecting people across China and then the world — and that they required hospitalization. The first confirmed case in Wuhan, according to the Chinese government, was Dec. 8, 2019...

White House medical adviser and top infectious diseases expert Anthony Fauci, who downplayed the lab leak theory in the past, recently said he thinks an investigation is warranted. “I do not have any accounting of what the Chinese may have done, and I'm fully in favor of any further investigation of what went on in China,” Fauci said during a Senate hearing after sparring with Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) over the virus's origins...

Earlier this month, a group of 18 leading scientists published a letter in the academic journal Science calling for further investigation into the origin of the virus. The scientists noted that they were not advocating for one possibility over another but that the lack of evidence called into question any existing hypothesis. “We must take hypotheses about both natural and laboratory spillovers seriously until we have sufficient data,” the scientists wrote...


So what does NSG think?

I think the usually dog and pony media show happened, where we had two equally likely hypothesis, but the media pretended that one was the absolute truth and the other was a raving mad conspiracy theory, so I'm glad that today, more than a year after the fact, real scientists are acknowledging that both theories should be taken seriously.
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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Tue May 25, 2021 9:22 pm

I never dismissed the possibility but I've never assumed it as an absolute fact either. Of course it's possible and something that needs investigating, but I'm not making any assertions about the origins without conclusive proof. The people that think they know 100% it either was or wasn't from a lab usually have some political agenda.
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Porde
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Postby Porde » Tue May 25, 2021 9:22 pm

I think this virus is syntethically occuring. WHO earns a lot of money from it.

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Tue May 25, 2021 9:23 pm

I think it's natural, and that it was just discovered months before the outbreak. China just kept it a secret because, you know, China.
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-SARS-
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Postby -SARS- » Tue May 25, 2021 9:27 pm

Porde wrote:I think this virus is syntethically occuring. WHO earns a lot of money from it.


It is not synthetic.

Humans should stop flattering themselves by trying to take credit for the innovations of wild viruses. We are very innovative!
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Postauthoritarian America
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Postby Postauthoritarian America » Tue May 25, 2021 9:27 pm

WTF difference does it make where COVID came from? The previous US administration's ignorance and inertia would still have led to 500k+ unneccesary deaths if it came from a lab, a bat, a pangolin or Bun E. Carlos.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Tue May 25, 2021 9:27 pm

I can't say for certain whether this is the right time to back this as fact. I wouldn't make any similar such topic here because of the risk of being hit by the COVID misinformation rule. This is playing with fire in a way. But it is what I'd recognize as the most logical point of origin.

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue May 25, 2021 9:28 pm

Oh I knew this since a long time and have been repeatedly called a conspiracy theorist over it.

In fact I've was sort of aware of this of since April 2020(!)

See also this politico article from March 2021

I told you so.
Last edited by Nakena on Tue May 25, 2021 9:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Tue May 25, 2021 9:29 pm

Postauthoritarian America wrote:WTF difference does it make where COVID came from? The previous US administration's ignorance and inertia would still have led to 500k+ unneccesary deaths if it came from a lab, a bat, a pangolin or Bun E. Carlos.


The difference, as Rand Paul correctly pointed out, is critical to determine whether or not Gain of Function research should continue. We probably shouldn't spend US taxpayer dollars to drive small businesses to bankruptcy, although you are welcome to disagree.
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Resilient Acceleration
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Tue May 25, 2021 9:31 pm

Postauthoritarian America wrote:WTF difference does it make where COVID came from? The previous US administration's ignorance and inertia would still have led to 500k+ unneccesary deaths if it came from a lab, a bat, a pangolin or Bun E. Carlos.

For one, the Chinese people themselves will obviously not be very happy about it.

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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Tue May 25, 2021 9:32 pm

Saiwania wrote:I can't say for certain whether this is the right time to back this as fact. I wouldn't make any similar such topic here because of the risk of being hit by the COVID misinformation rule. This is playing with fire in a way. But it is what I'd recognize as the most logical point of origin.


I'd say that quoting stellar scientists saying that the odds are roughly 50/50, is the very definition of COVID information and the Hill's reporting on COVID has been surprisingly accurate, which is why I picked them as a source.
Stonk Power! Apparently I go off topic so recklessly that NVI felt a warning was needed...
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

(North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia! DonBass is De Facto Independent! Let's have a Referendum for NovoRossiya!
Tecumseh was a Real American

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue May 25, 2021 9:33 pm

Postauthoritarian America wrote:WTF difference does it make where COVID came from? The previous US administration's ignorance and inertia would still have led to 500k+ unneccesary deaths if it came from a lab, a bat, a pangolin or Bun E. Carlos.


Well yeah

It makes all the hell of a difference. Or are you afraid of the consequences of facing a possible horrible truth?
Last edited by Nakena on Tue May 25, 2021 9:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Rusozak
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Postby Rusozak » Tue May 25, 2021 9:34 pm

Resilient Acceleration wrote:
Postauthoritarian America wrote:WTF difference does it make where COVID came from? The previous US administration's ignorance and inertia would still have led to 500k+ unneccesary deaths if it came from a lab, a bat, a pangolin or Bun E. Carlos.

For one, the Chinese people themselves will obviously not be very happy about it.


Like they'll ever find out. Everything not from the "all knowing" CCP is "western propaganda" after all.
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Sannyamathland
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Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Sannyamathland » Tue May 25, 2021 9:35 pm

Yes, I knew that the US will say something like thus one day. Man, I understand that America is extremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus, although it was the country of origin, while the US health system has stumbled and absolutely collapsed trying to fight it. Now, the US will make this dogshit theories to divert people's attention from the fact that the US healthcare system is weaker than China's.
Last edited by Sannyamathland on Tue May 25, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kiu Ghesik
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Postby Kiu Ghesik » Tue May 25, 2021 9:36 pm

Rusozak wrote:Like they'll ever find out. Everything not from the "all knowing" CCP is "western propaganda" after all.

Sannyamathland wrote:Yes, I knew that the US will say something like thus one day. Man, I understand that America is extremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus, although it was the country of origin, while the US health system has stumbled and absolutely collapsed trying to fight it. Now, the US will make this dogshit theories to divert people's attention from the fact that the US healthcare system is weaker than China's.

speak of the devil.
Last edited by Kiu Ghesik on Tue May 25, 2021 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Tue May 25, 2021 9:36 pm

Sannyamathland wrote:Yes, I knew that the US will say something like thus one day. Man, I understand that America is extremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus

What makes you so sure that China, an actual fascist dictatorship, isn't lying about its numbers like North Korea (probably) or Turkmenistan are?
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Whitemore
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Postby Whitemore » Tue May 25, 2021 9:37 pm

*grabs popcorn*

This thread will be fun to watch. Let's see just how many people jump to a conclusion first before any proper investigation can be started.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Tue May 25, 2021 9:37 pm

Sannyamathland wrote:Yes, I knew that the US will say something like that one day. Man, I understand that America is eetremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus, although it was the country of origin, while the US health system has stumbled and absolutely collapsed trying to fight it. Now, the US will make this dogshit theories to divert people's attention from the fact that the US healthcare system is weaker than China's.


Uh, as someone who repeatedly criticized US Healthcare System, I can tell you that COVID-19 wasn't needed to make that determination. Nor is it a dog shit theory, since even Fauci, who has everything to lose if the Wuhan Lab ends up being the origin, acknowledged that it's plausible.
Stonk Power! Apparently I go off topic so recklessly that NVI felt a warning was needed...
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

(North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia! DonBass is De Facto Independent! Let's have a Referendum for NovoRossiya!
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-SARS-
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Postby -SARS- » Tue May 25, 2021 9:38 pm

Rusozak wrote:
Resilient Acceleration wrote:For one, the Chinese people themselves will obviously not be very happy about it.


Like they'll ever find out. Everything not from the "all knowing" CCP is "western propaganda" after all.


Not all of them are so disconnected from the outside world.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Tue May 25, 2021 9:39 pm

Whitemore wrote:*grabs popcorn*

This thread will be fun to watch. Let's see just how many people jump to a conclusion first before any proper investigation can be started.


I love me some popcorn threads! That said, I'd encourage posters to cite legitimate sources, like the Hill, or heck even their own past NSG posts, before they jump the gun. Also, the OP's really clear that the investigation's still ongoing.
Stonk Power! Apparently I go off topic so recklessly that NVI felt a warning was needed...
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

(North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia! DonBass is De Facto Independent! Let's have a Referendum for NovoRossiya!
Tecumseh was a Real American

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Tue May 25, 2021 9:39 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Sannyamathland wrote:Yes, I knew that the US will say something like that one day. Man, I understand that America is eetremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus, although it was the country of origin, while the US health system has stumbled and absolutely collapsed trying to fight it. Now, the US will make this dogshit theories to divert people's attention from the fact that the US healthcare system is weaker than China's.


Uh, as someone who repeatedly criticized US Healthcare System, I can tell you that COVID-19 wasn't needed to make that determination. Nor is it a dog shit theory, since even Fauci, who has everything to lose if the Wuhan Lab ends up being the origin, acknowledged that it's plausible.

Wait, why would Fauci lose everything if COVID was made in a lab? It's almost 1 AM and I'm too tired to think.
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Sannyamathland
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Postby Sannyamathland » Tue May 25, 2021 9:40 pm

Atheris wrote:
Sannyamathland wrote:Yes, I knew that the US will say something like thus one day. Man, I understand that America is extremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus

What makes you so sure that China, an actual fascist dictatorship, isn't lying about its numbers like North Korea (probably) or Turkmenistan are?

Because, the WHO has agreed with the numbers that China provided. The fact that China has been able to contain the virus is universally known now, I fail to understand from where you are getting the data that China is trying to hide it's numbers. Or is this out of pure jealousy?
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Yes, I am a Communist and I am proud of it!

Contrary to what American propaganda teaches us, a truly Communist society, is much more democratic than a Capitalist democracy. Capitalist democracy is an autocratic democracy, while a Communist democracy is direct democracy. TG me if you want to know the real reason why I say this.

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-SARS-
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Postby -SARS- » Tue May 25, 2021 9:41 pm

Atheris wrote:
Sannyamathland wrote:Yes, I knew that the US will say something like thus one day. Man, I understand that America is extremely jealous because China has managed to contain the Covid-19 virus

What makes you so sure that China, an actual fascist dictatorship, isn't lying about its numbers like North Korea (probably) or Turkmenistan are?


Even if they have fudged things, there is a limit to how much you can fudge before it becomes obvious. I don't know if China's official figures are 100% accurate, but it's pretty safe to say that China controlled the virus more successfully than the US. If they had huge outbreaks overflowing hospitals and overflowing the morgues -- as some US cities had when they were at their worst -- that news would have leaked by now.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Tue May 25, 2021 9:41 pm

Atheris wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
Uh, as someone who repeatedly criticized US Healthcare System, I can tell you that COVID-19 wasn't needed to make that determination. Nor is it a dog shit theory, since even Fauci, who has everything to lose if the Wuhan Lab ends up being the origin, acknowledged that it's plausible.

Wait, why would Fauci lose everything if COVID was made in a lab? It's almost 1 AM and I'm too tired to think.


Fauci is a mad cheerleader for Gain of Function Research. If the study says that Gain of Function Research caused COVID, Fauci is extremely likely to lose his Gain of Function Research funding from Congress.
Stonk Power! Apparently I go off topic so recklessly that NVI felt a warning was needed...
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
If we tell the radical Republicans that there's proof that Global Warming doesn't exist in Death Valley, and the radical Democrats that there's proof of Russian Collusion there, would we have a better America?

(North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia! DonBass is De Facto Independent! Let's have a Referendum for NovoRossiya!
Tecumseh was a Real American

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Atheris
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Founded: Oct 05, 2018
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Postby Atheris » Tue May 25, 2021 9:41 pm

Sannyamathland wrote:
Atheris wrote:What makes you so sure that China, an actual fascist dictatorship, isn't lying about its numbers like North Korea (probably) or Turkmenistan are?

Because, the WHO has agreed with the numbers that China provided. The fact that China has been able to contain the virus is universally known now, I fail to understand from where you are getting the data that China is trying to hide it's numbers. Or is this out of pure jealousy?

Oh, I didn't know that about the WHO.

And no, this isn't out of jealousy? What would I have to be jealous about, that the US isn't exterminating religious minorities as efficiently as the PRC?

*sigh* Alas, that's for another thread.
Last edited by Atheris on Tue May 25, 2021 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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