Moderates and right wing people aren't Nazis, aren't thus aren't affected by this ban. What the hell are you going on about?
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by Fedel » Sun Jun 13, 2021 9:45 pm
by Tsaivao » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:00 pm
Fedel wrote:Tsaivao wrote:Banishing people and openly detesting a violent and tyrannical ideology is not "elevating" it, what are you on about? It is much better to openly shun naziism than pretend like we have to give them a voice. There is no debate necessary, so why should we pretend like there should be?
The fact that you think that banning nazis means that this is a ban of moderates and right-wing people is telling enough.
If their ideas hold no power, do not act like they do by pretending they have inherent danger. Unless your problem is an inherent lack of confidence in people themselves. Though I think in the end that's all leftist's problem and it's the main thing that divides them from their opposition.
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I stated that the leftists doing this would make the divide clear. Clearly the divide is those that believe humanity is capable and responsible enough to be able to understand why something is wrong and avoid it and those who don't ( unless you view the former group as nazis ).
OPERATION TEN-GO: Tsaivao Authority confirms wormhole drives based on alien designs are functional | Gen. Tsaosin: "Operational integrity is the key to our success against the xenic threat. In a week, we will have already infiltrated into their world." | All leaders of Tsaivao send personal farewells to Ten-Go special forces unit Tsaikantan-8
by Nazi Flower Power » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:02 pm
Fedel wrote:Tsaivao wrote:Banishing people and openly detesting a violent and tyrannical ideology is not "elevating" it, what are you on about? It is much better to openly shun naziism than pretend like we have to give them a voice. There is no debate necessary, so why should we pretend like there should be?
The fact that you think that banning nazis means that this is a ban of moderates and right-wing people is telling enough.
If their ideas hold no power, do not act like they do by pretending they have inherent danger. Unless your problem is an inherent lack of confidence in people themselves. Though I think in the end that's all leftists problem and it's the main thing that divides them from their opposition.
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I stated that the leftists doing this would make the divide clear. Clearly the divide is those that believe humanity is capable and responsible enough to be able to understand why something is wrong and avoid it and those who don't ( unless you view the former group as nazis ).
by Nazi Flower Power » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:54 am
Yeerosland wrote:Nazi Flower Power wrote:
Just because someone isn't literally a threat to your safety doesn't mean they aren't really unpleasant and toxic.
Just because someone CAN explain what is wrong with Nazism doesn't mean they want to do it every day. Some of those people will just pack up and go find another website to hang out on if there are too many Nazis. Unfortunately, some Nazis have A LOT of time on their hands, and they are very prolific -- making it a hassle to argue them down if you do not have as much time on your hands.
Furthermore, it is possible that Max or [v] were concerned about NationStates' reputation with advertisers. I don't know if this factored into the decision or not, but it is possible, since some advertisers do not want to be associated with white supremacist material, and there was a large quantity of Nazi nations. It's a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation. One person making a Nazi nation isn't a big deal -- but when everyone wants one, and some people make 3 or 4 or 20, well, this is why we can't have nice things.
I think it's unfortunate that we have to have this new policy, but I do kinda get where it is coming from. It is one thing to have a region with one Nazi nation and 49 other nations representing all different ideological, cultural, and historic themes. It is something else to have a region with 50 Nazi nations, many of whose owners have OOC white supremacist tendencies. And we did have several Nazi regions. I personally find Nazi regions much more problematic than individual Nazi nations, because of the region's ability to function as an echo-chamber.
And not at all because the same rule applied to regions, would see your nation deleted? If it was applied to nations. See:Katganistan wrote:Additionally, many "trophy" regions have been captured over the years by gameplay groups who oppose nazi-style ideologies, and while these regions now have no malicious intent, they probably appear malicious to people who see their names and never click through to examine their details. The new word block means these regions can be allowed to expire, as opposed to the previous situation where they had to be held indefinitely to prevent another player from refounding them.
Your nation name is funny. But you know some people have zero sense of humor.
by Shazbotdom » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:30 am
Frisbeeteria wrote:Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:It's a sad day when nation-states begins their descent into censorship
Check your calendar. I believe that day was sometime in late 2002 or early 2003 when Max originally posted the FAQ, which states:The FAQ/Etiquette wrote:> It's free speech, so I can post whatever I like here, right?
Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.
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by The Blaatschapen » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:22 am
by Coronational Chechyans and affiliates » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:15 pm
Nazi Flower Power wrote:Yeerosland wrote:
And not at all because the same rule applied to regions, would see your nation deleted? If it was applied to nations. See:
Your nation name is funny. But you know some people have zero sense of humor.
My nation is well-known to the mods, and they said I could keep it.
The thing with Nazi regions is that some of them would kick out people that weren't OOCly Nazi enough. At that point, it is not just a name or an image. It's an echo-chamber where people can be radicalized. The idea that people should be willing to debate with Nazis and argue them down does not work if the Nazis have a private space where they can eject anyone they don't agree with.
by Tsaivao » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:55 pm
Coronational Chechyans and affiliates wrote:Nazi Flower Power wrote:
My nation is well-known to the mods, and they said I could keep it.
The thing with Nazi regions is that some of them would kick out people that weren't OOCly Nazi enough. At that point, it is not just a name or an image. It's an echo-chamber where people can be radicalized. The idea that people should be willing to debate with Nazis and argue them down does not work if the Nazis have a private space where they can eject anyone they don't agree with.
So Nazi isn't ok but their making exceptions? Is it a grandfathering type situation
OPERATION TEN-GO: Tsaivao Authority confirms wormhole drives based on alien designs are functional | Gen. Tsaosin: "Operational integrity is the key to our success against the xenic threat. In a week, we will have already infiltrated into their world." | All leaders of Tsaivao send personal farewells to Ten-Go special forces unit Tsaikantan-8
by Kargintinia » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:11 pm
by Minoa » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:33 pm
Nazi Flower Power wrote:Fedel wrote:
If their ideas hold no power, do not act like they do by pretending they have inherent danger. Unless your problem is an inherent lack of confidence in people themselves. Though I think in the end that's all leftists problem and it's the main thing that divides them from their opposition.
-
I stated that the leftists doing this would make the divide clear. Clearly the divide is those that believe humanity is capable and responsible enough to be able to understand why something is wrong and avoid it and those who don't ( unless you view the former group as nazis ).
Just because someone isn't literally a threat to your safety doesn't mean they aren't really unpleasant and toxic.
Just because someone CAN explain what is wrong with Nazism doesn't mean they want to do it every day. Some of those people will just pack up and go find another website to hang out on if there are too many Nazis. Unfortunately, some Nazis have A LOT of time on their hands, and they are very prolific -- making it a hassle to argue them down if you do not have as much time on your hands.
Furthermore, it is possible that Max or [v] were concerned about NationStates' reputation with advertisers. I don't know if this factored into the decision or not, but it is possible, since some advertisers do not want to be associated with white supremacist material, and there was a large quantity of Nazi nations. It's a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation. One person making a Nazi nation isn't a big deal -- but when everyone wants one, and some people make 3 or 4 or 20, well, this is why we can't have nice things.
I think it's unfortunate that we have to have this new policy, but I do kinda get where it is coming from. It is one thing to have a region with one Nazi nation and 49 other nations representing all different ideological, cultural, and historic themes. It is something else to have a region with 50 Nazi nations, many of whose owners have OOC white supremacist tendencies. And we did have several Nazi regions. I personally find Nazi regions much more problematic than individual Nazi nations, because of the region's ability to function as an echo-chamber.
by THVLE » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:18 pm
The Archregimancy wrote:The discussion of the black sun is a distraction from the main point of this thread.
This thread is outlining a policy regarding specific words and phrases relating to Nazism that was implemented at the request of senior figures who outrank the moderation team.
The moderation team have not been asked by these senior figures to look at additional visual symbols, so these lie outside the current scope of this policy change - and therefore outside the scope of this discussion. Existing policy on the use of specific symbols in flags and similar still applies, and is not up for discussion here; these will continue to be judged on a case by case basis as outlined in this post by [Violet] and this post by NERVUN (as originally written by [Violet]. If you think this needs discussing further, then please start a new Moderation discussion thread on banning symbols.
And really, the last person in NationStates who needs a lecture about the archaeological roots of particular European symbols, their (re)invention and manipulation by nationalist groups over the course of the 20th century, and/or their historical context is me.
by Fartsniffage » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:22 pm
THVLE wrote:The Archregimancy wrote:The discussion of the black sun is a distraction from the main point of this thread.
This thread is outlining a policy regarding specific words and phrases relating to Nazism that was implemented at the request of senior figures who outrank the moderation team.
The moderation team have not been asked by these senior figures to look at additional visual symbols, so these lie outside the current scope of this policy change - and therefore outside the scope of this discussion. Existing policy on the use of specific symbols in flags and similar still applies, and is not up for discussion here; these will continue to be judged on a case by case basis as outlined in this post by [Violet] and this post by NERVUN (as originally written by [Violet]. If you think this needs discussing further, then please start a new Moderation discussion thread on banning symbols.
And really, the last person in NationStates who needs a lecture about the archaeological roots of particular European symbols, their (re)invention and manipulation by nationalist groups over the course of the 20th century, and/or their historical context is me.
Today, my flag featuring a Sun Wheel was deleted by moderators. Currently, I'm at risk of having my account deleted if my flag is deemed to be incompatible with this site's rules. If the Sun Wheel is banned, would it kill the mods to lose the ambiguity and say so openly? In thesethreads that were linked to me in that fateful moderator's telegram, there's clear and visible examples of symbols to steer clear of, a rule which I respected and followed. Why is it so that my former flag was singled out and deleted?
by THVLE » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:25 pm
Fartsniffage wrote:THVLE wrote:
Today, my flag featuring a Sun Wheel was deleted by moderators. Currently, I'm at risk of having my account deleted if my flag is deemed to be incompatible with this site's rules. If the Sun Wheel is banned, would it kill the mods to lose the ambiguity and say so openly? In thesethreads that were linked to me in that fateful moderator's telegram, there's clear and visible examples of symbols to steer clear of, a rule which I respected and followed. Why is it so that my former flag was singled out and deleted?
Stop trying to be a Nazi. Problem solved.
If you are a Nazi then it seems you're not welcome here.
by The Blaatschapen » Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:28 pm
THVLE wrote:The Archregimancy wrote:The discussion of the black sun is a distraction from the main point of this thread.
This thread is outlining a policy regarding specific words and phrases relating to Nazism that was implemented at the request of senior figures who outrank the moderation team.
The moderation team have not been asked by these senior figures to look at additional visual symbols, so these lie outside the current scope of this policy change - and therefore outside the scope of this discussion. Existing policy on the use of specific symbols in flags and similar still applies, and is not up for discussion here; these will continue to be judged on a case by case basis as outlined in this post by [Violet] and this post by NERVUN (as originally written by [Violet]. If you think this needs discussing further, then please start a new Moderation discussion thread on banning symbols.
And really, the last person in NationStates who needs a lecture about the archaeological roots of particular European symbols, their (re)invention and manipulation by nationalist groups over the course of the 20th century, and/or their historical context is me.
Today, my flag featuring a Sun Wheel was deleted by moderators. Currently, I'm at risk of having my account deleted if my flag is deemed to be incompatible with this site's rules. If the Sun Wheel is banned, would it kill the mods to lose the ambiguity and say so openly? In thesethreads that were linked to me in that fateful moderator's telegram, there's clear and visible examples of symbols to steer clear of, a rule which I respected and followed. Why is it so that my former flag was singled out and deleted?
by CoraSpia » Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:39 pm
Fartsniffage wrote:THVLE wrote:
Today, my flag featuring a Sun Wheel was deleted by moderators. Currently, I'm at risk of having my account deleted if my flag is deemed to be incompatible with this site's rules. If the Sun Wheel is banned, would it kill the mods to lose the ambiguity and say so openly? In thesethreads that were linked to me in that fateful moderator's telegram, there's clear and visible examples of symbols to steer clear of, a rule which I respected and followed. Why is it so that my former flag was singled out and deleted?
Stop trying to be a Nazi. Problem solved.
If you are a Nazi then it seems you're not welcome here.
by Lamoni » Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:28 pm
CoraSpia wrote:Fartsniffage wrote:
Stop trying to be a Nazi. Problem solved.
If you are a Nazi then it seems you're not welcome here.
I thought we agreed when it came to transparency? The moderation policy really does require an update, especially as there are fascist symbols that have not been banned by moderation in the past.
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."
Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.
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by Fedel » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:36 pm
Lamoni wrote:CoraSpia wrote:I thought we agreed when it came to transparency? The moderation policy really does require an update, especially as there are fascist symbols that have not been banned by moderation in the past.
Stop trying to threadjack the thread. Also, just because we (moderation) may not have banned something in the past, does not mean that it might not be banned now.
by Lamoni » Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:31 am
Licana on the M-21A2 MBT: "Well, it is one of the most badass tanks on NS."
Vortiaganica: Lamoni I understand fully, of course. The two (Lamoni & Lyras) are more inseparable than the Clinton family and politics.
Triplebaconation: Lamoni commands a quiet respect that carries its own authority. He is the Mandela of NS.
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