NATION

PASSWORD

On the Matter of Crocodiles

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Regarding the crocodiles

Option 1
9
20%
Option 2
18
39%
Option 3
6
13%
Option 4
13
28%
 
Total votes : 46

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Infected Mushroom
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On the Matter of Crocodiles

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon May 10, 2021 9:02 pm

You are a military officer in the Empire in the IM Verse parallel of the 1940s. The Empire has just emerged victorious in a long war against the Great Nations.

However, the Emperor wants to reconsider the ramifications of one particular incident. During a battle for a remote colonial outpost full of swamps and watery mangroves, Great Nation reinforcements unexpectedly arrived by sea, forcing an entire Imperial garrison to retreat while taking heavy bombardment. Out of fear of being cut off by the enemy, the Imperial garrison marched the ~1,000 soldiers across swamps, rivers, and mangroves. Using this method they were able to evade contact with the enemy military. However, whilst the troops were in transit, hundreds of vicious mutant crocodiles appeared and massacred them over several days using the high murky waters and the darkness to their advantage. The Imperial weapons didn’t work well in the swampy watery environment and the soldiers were not expecting these monsters to snatch them down with their jaws and pick them off one by one. Only 100 of the Imperials made it out alive to report the incident.

During the rest of the war, the Great Nations used the Crocodile Incident as evidence that the IM Verse’s favor for the cause of Freedom... many resistance movements began to fly crocodile sigils. The war would continue for decades before all enemies of the Empire were crushed (for now).

Following the war, the Emperor would like your (influential but non-decisive) input on whether or not to train a large force of tens of thousands of military crocodile slayers, deploy them in the colony, and wage war on the crocodiles, to avenge the prior attack (in this way restoring the honor of the Empire).

Your options:

Option 1:
It is time to avenge the honor of the Empire. Train, deploy, and utilize a large force of the Empire’s military to take down these crocodiles. The 900+ soldiers must be avenged with overwhelming firepower. For the Empire!

Option 2:
You are reluctantly impressed by the ingenuity, valor, and battle spirit of the crocodiles. Even though you are upset about the death of the Imperial soldiers, out of respect for this rare victory of animals over the master race of humanity, you will leave the crocodiles be.

Option 3:
Instead of deploying a large military force, offer a monetary reward to adventurers for killing individual crocodiles. Individuals can decide if they want to risk their necks for the reward but the overall economics should encourage some mercenary groups to try their hand at avenging the Empire. However, a downside of this option is that you will have to allow limited gun ownership in the colony by private citizens (historically a no go for the Empire).

Option 4:
The crocodiles themselves are irrelevant, it’s what they represent that matters. It has been used as a symbol of hope and freedom; this means the PR needs to change. Seal off that section of the colony and use the known crocodile grounds as a territory to execute those who rebelled against/betrayed the Empire. This will corrupt a symbol of the Resistance and indirectly undermine them. The swamps and mangroves will be used as fearsome incentive to control the people.


Please select an option and defend it. Discuss. Poll is up.

I would choose Option 1. I think the honor of the fallen Imperial soldiers would in this case, necessitate a response. The new task force would be trained and appropriately equipped for the situation. It would have to be well-planned out, well-supplied, and well-manned. I think it’s the way to go.

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon May 10, 2021 9:27 pm

Crikey...

Why? Just... just why?
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon May 10, 2021 9:33 pm

So... as the Empire are the evil dictatorship of IM Land... does that mean the Nazis won the war in this timeline?

Cos, if it does, I can't imagine a few thousand mutant crocodiles making things much worse.

Secret option five: start a mutant crocodile breeding programme. Since they apparently represent "hope and freedom" we have to keep them alive at all costs.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon May 10, 2021 9:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon May 10, 2021 9:36 pm

I'm having a hard time buying into any of this since I know quite a bit about crocodiles and about the battle on an island off Burma this urban myth came from.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon May 10, 2021 9:37 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:So... as the Empire are the evil dictatorship of IM Land... does that mean the Nazis won the war in this timeline?

Cos, if it does, I can't imagine a few thousand mutant crocodiles making things much worse.

Secret option five: start a mutant crocodile breeding programme. Since they apparently represent "hope and freedom" we have to keep them alive at all costs.

Riding an army of crocadillies into BerlinOslo.
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Mon May 10, 2021 9:40 pm

Heloin wrote:I'm having a hard time buying into any of this since I know quite a bit about crocodiles and about the battle on an island off Burma this urban myth came from.

I recommend we simply send Rick Sanchez in to demoralize them. Since that's at least more realistic then anything else going on here.
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Socialist States of Ludistan
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Postby Socialist States of Ludistan » Mon May 10, 2021 9:40 pm

The crocodiles could take down trained soldiers with weapons? I’m very impressed, leave them alone, they’re obviously better fighters than the best of us, we don’t deserve the honour and glory.
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Tsaivao
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Postby Tsaivao » Mon May 10, 2021 9:42 pm

Well, Option 3 definitely worked out great historically! (see also, India's snake problem...)

Honestly I'm not really sure how to answer as this assumes that I'm somehow already A) a significant advisor to an emperor and B) that I am an ideologue of this particular regime. I can say that 3 and 4 are bad options objectively, since 3 will encourage private breeding and 4 will encourage man-eating in general. 1 is too time-consuming and overall kind of a dumb idea anyway, especially since as you mentioned in option 4 the problem isn't the crocs, it's the people.

What I think I will do is just explain to the emperor that the tales of these 100 or so survivors was probably just some confabulated legend to cover up for the overall logistical and practical failures of trying to invade the enemy through a freaking swamp. Seriously, even on Tsaivao you don't fucking do that.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon May 10, 2021 9:44 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Heloin wrote:I'm having a hard time buying into any of this since I know quite a bit about crocodiles and about the battle on an island off Burma this urban myth came from.

I recommend we simply send Rick Sanchez in to demoralize them. Since that's at least more realistic then anything else going on here.

No, we must give the crocodiles courage by making a mocking Disney movie featuring the leader of the Empire.

Tsaivao wrote:Well, Option 3 definitely worked out great historically! (see also, India's snake problem...)

Honestly I'm not really sure how to answer as this assumes that I'm somehow already A) a significant advisor to an emperor and B) that I am an ideologue of this particular regime. I can say that 3 and 4 are bad options objectively, since 3 will encourage private breeding and 4 will encourage man-eating in general. 1 is too time-consuming and overall kind of a dumb idea anyway, especially since as you mentioned in option 4 the problem isn't the crocs, it's the people.

What I think I will do is just explain to the emperor that the tales of these 100 or so survivors was probably just some confabulated legend to cover up for the overall logistical and practical failures of trying to invade the enemy through a freaking swamp. Seriously, even on Tsaivao you don't fucking do that.

Truly, there is no way to answer the poll if you don't believe the Nazi stand-ins are the "master race of humanity" (per option two) and wouldn't want them to win the IM Land equivalent of WWII (which, I'd hazard a guess, is likely a sizeable percentage, and likely a clear majority).

Even an "other" option would be a considerable improvement.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon May 10, 2021 9:56 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon May 10, 2021 10:05 pm

Socialist States of Ludistan wrote:The crocodiles could take down trained soldiers with weapons? I’m very impressed, leave them alone, they’re obviously better fighters than the best of us, we don’t deserve the honour and glory.


Fair enough.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon May 10, 2021 10:07 pm

The mutant crocodiles have great speed, strength and above average predator intelligence (comparable to the Xenomorphs from the Alien movies). They are highly adaptable. They also have limited (not complete) invulnerability to standard military rounds. If shot at a few times though the rounds can get through (there are also weak spots).

However, if you’re organized you can bring bigger firepower to bear.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Mon May 10, 2021 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon May 10, 2021 10:11 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:The mutant crocodiles have great speed, strength and above average predator intelligence (comparable to the Xenomorphs from the Alien movies). They are highly adaptable. They also have limited (not complete) invulnerability to standard military rounds. If shot at a few times though the rounds can get through (there are also weak spots).

However, if you’re organized you can bring bigger firepower to bear.

...

I don't know how that made the situation less interesting but somehow it did.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon May 10, 2021 10:19 pm

I do wonder why the majority of other hypotheticals have an "other" option and this does not, even though it is by far the most presumptive in nature.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon May 10, 2021 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon May 10, 2021 10:22 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:I do wonder why the majority of other hypotheticals have an "other" option and this does not, even though it is by far the most presumptive in nature.

I join the crocodiles and then kick witch hitler in the face.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon May 10, 2021 10:24 pm

Heloin wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:I do wonder why the majority of other hypotheticals have an "other" option and this does not, even though it is by far the most presumptive in nature.

I join the crocodiles and then kick witch hitler in the face.

My answer remains: secret option five: start a programme to breed the crocodiles. I could never support a Nazi-like Empire. I could never answer that one race is "the master race of humanity" (so option two is out). I cannot support reducing biodiversity (even wasps, which I dislike). And they are apparently the symbol of "hope and freedom"; how could I get rid of that?
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon May 10, 2021 10:32 pm

The Free Joy State wrote:
Heloin wrote:I join the crocodiles and then kick witch hitler in the face.

My answer remains: secret option five: start a programme to breed the crocodiles. I could never support a Nazi-like Empire. I could never answer that one race is "the master race of humanity" (so option two is out). I cannot support reducing biodiversity (even wasps, which I dislike). And they are apparently the symbol of "hope and freedom"; how could I get rid of that?

Ah, you think the crocodile is your ally? You merely adopted the croc. I was born with them, moulded by them. I didn't see the Nazis until I was already a woman, by then they were nothing to me but tasty snacks!
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Mon May 10, 2021 11:48 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:You are a military officer in the Empire in the IM Verse parallel of the 1940s. The Empire has just emerged victorious in a long war against the Great Nations.

However, the Emperor wants to reconsider the ramifications of one particular incident. During a battle for a remote colonial outpost full of swamps and watery mangroves, Great Nation reinforcements unexpectedly arrived by sea, forcing an entire Imperial garrison to retreat while taking heavy bombardment. Out of fear of being cut off by the enemy, the Imperial garrison marched the ~1,000 soldiers across swamps, rivers, and mangroves. Using this method they were able to evade contact with the enemy military. However, whilst the troops were in transit, hundreds of vicious mutant crocodiles appeared and massacred them over several days using the high murky waters and the darkness to their advantage. The Imperial weapons didn’t work well in the swampy watery environment and the soldiers were not expecting these monsters to snatch them down with their jaws and pick them off one by one. Only 100 of the Imperials made it out alive to report the incident.

During the rest of the war, the Great Nations used the Crocodile Incident as evidence that the IM Verse’s favor for the cause of Freedom... many resistance movements began to fly crocodile sigils. The war would continue for decades before all enemies of the Empire were crushed (for now).

Following the war, the Emperor would like your (influential but non-decisive) input on whether or not to train a large force of tens of thousands of military crocodile slayers, deploy them in the colony, and wage war on the crocodiles, to avenge the prior attack (in this way restoring the honor of the Empire).

Your options:

Option 1:
It is time to avenge the honor of the Empire. Train, deploy, and utilize a large force of the Empire’s military to take down these crocodiles. The 900+ soldiers must be avenged with overwhelming firepower. For the Empire!

Option 2:
You are reluctantly impressed by the ingenuity, valor, and battle spirit of the crocodiles. Even though you are upset about the death of the Imperial soldiers, out of respect for this rare victory of animals over the master race of humanity, you will leave the crocodiles be.

Option 3:
Instead of deploying a large military force, offer a monetary reward to adventurers for killing individual crocodiles. Individuals can decide if they want to risk their necks for the reward but the overall economics should encourage some mercenary groups to try their hand at avenging the Empire. However, a downside of this option is that you will have to allow limited gun ownership in the colony by private citizens (historically a no go for the Empire).

Option 4:
The crocodiles themselves are irrelevant, it’s what they represent that matters. It has been used as a symbol of hope and freedom; this means the PR needs to change. Seal off that section of the colony and use the known crocodile grounds as a territory to execute those who rebelled against/betrayed the Empire. This will corrupt a symbol of the Resistance and indirectly undermine them. The swamps and mangroves will be used as fearsome incentive to control the people.


Please select an option and defend it. Discuss. Poll is up.

I would choose Option 1. I think the honor of the fallen Imperial soldiers would in this case, necessitate a response. The new task force would be trained and appropriately equipped for the situation. It would have to be well-planned out, well-supplied, and well-manned. I think it’s the way to go.

No thank you.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon May 10, 2021 11:53 pm

Political Geography wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:You are a military officer in the Empire in the IM Verse parallel of the 1940s.


Dude, you really should learn how Issues work and start contributing some.

(2) Is the closest, but I won't vote, and if this was an Issue I would dismiss it. Amusing assumptions, but all of the answers are bound to have bad effects on my nation.

The crocodiles were loyal defenders of our great land! It's not their fault they don't understand uniforms or "hey, let go my leg!"

I would recruit the crocodiles, and any crocs that make it through basic training with their natural savagery and ignorance intact, I would induct as para-troops to decimate any rebellious villages we may have. Bite and hold! Drag to water! For the Empire!


It’s worth considering. Though you’d have to somehow catch the crocodiles first. Unless you want to start a weaponized breeding program? Can they be trained?

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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Tue May 11, 2021 12:34 am

Feed Witch Hitler to the mutant crocodiles.

And we HEIL! :pbbbt: HEIL! :pbbbt:
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue May 11, 2021 12:53 am

An impact analysis would be necessary. The role of the crocodiles in the ecosystem must be determined before action should be taken against them.

To lash out in anger or for such illusory things as glory does not become an Emperor, and should such behavior result in a negative consequence for the empire through the alteration of the eco system in detrimental ways, the optics are terrible. It would mean you lost control of yourself, and this loss of control harmed us all. The empire must be about control and the virtue of control and how control is beneficial for everyone. Do not let the impulse to anarchy damage us all. From the lowliest peasant to the emperor himself, all must live according to order, discipline, and sacrificing their individual whims in service of the empire.

The study of the crocodiles and their role in the eco-system should form part of our memetic warfare campaign. Drown out the symbolism by making everyone aware of them and their role, and how that role is certainly not the ridiculous one of gaia's agent on behalf of anarchy. That they are simply a cog in a machine. As are we all. Any meaning ascribed to them beyond that is the desperate rationalization of those who refuse to accept reality, who seek evidence for their poorly founded notions in the most banal of things. The crocodile is a symbol of the folly of the anarchists, of their delusion, their search for meaning in places where it does not reside.

Let them see if the crocodile is an agent for liberty themselves. Let us all see it. Let us test our views. Throw them to the crocodiles.

Option 4.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue May 11, 2021 1:07 am, edited 5 times in total.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue May 11, 2021 2:00 am

How did the alarm clock, that the crocodile in Disney's Peter Pan swallowed, get wound so it kept ticking?
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The Supreme Holy Acidspitter Empire
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Postby The Supreme Holy Acidspitter Empire » Tue May 11, 2021 3:24 am

When Emperor Calixus hears about this, he says:

"Killer mutant crocodiles? Let's get them on our team."

As such, the Emperor's Own Mutant Crocodile Guard Regiment is formed.

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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Tue May 11, 2021 3:27 am

Better luck next thread, IM.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Tue May 11, 2021 3:29 am

Create the avengers but entirely consistent of these mutant crocodiles.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue May 11, 2021 4:15 am

What’s the most viable strategy to eliminate hundreds of dangerous crocodiles in combat with minimal casualties (but still showcase martial strength and firepower)? Assuming tech is circa 1940s.

What would a timeline look like?

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