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1 Mosque Built, 1 Christian Monument Destroyed Every 2 Weeks

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The Sovereign Realist State
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1 Mosque Built, 1 Christian Monument Destroyed Every 2 Weeks

Postby The Sovereign Realist State » Mon May 10, 2021 1:32 pm

(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”
"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...

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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Mon May 10, 2021 1:35 pm

I, for one, applaud OP for being totally fair and unbiased whatsoever by not making baseless insinuations on nothing more than pure coincidence without any hard evidence to back up his claims.

Hats off to you, OP.

/s
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GuessTheAltAccount
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Postby GuessTheAltAccount » Mon May 10, 2021 1:41 pm

Do you really need Christianity as an antidote to Islam? Some of Islam's most fervent critics happen to be anti-theists.
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Postby Shofercia » Mon May 10, 2021 1:41 pm

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”
"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...


Can I see the source for that timeline, namely one Mosque erected every 15 days and one Christian Church destroyed every 15 days. I highly doubt that destroyers and builders would coordinate to such a degree, unless we're talking about Hollywood movies.

That said, for me the biggest issue would be that according to the most recent figures from France’s central criminal intelligence unit, 877 attacks on Catholic places of worship were recorded across the country in 2018 alone. Europe really needs to stop playing softball with those attackers.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon May 10, 2021 1:44 pm

The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”
"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...


So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?
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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Mon May 10, 2021 1:45 pm

Vassenor wrote:
The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”
"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...


So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?


The existence of Muslims in France, apparently.
Last edited by Lady Victory on Mon May 10, 2021 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Mon May 10, 2021 1:49 pm

Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

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Sword Island
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sword Island » Mon May 10, 2021 1:49 pm

Vassenor wrote:
The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”
"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...


So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?

Well the recent hijab and halal meat bans haven't been helpful for Muslim- Christan relations
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Postby National Capitalist United States » Mon May 10, 2021 1:50 pm

Sussy amog us imposter wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?


yo you gay?

What does that have to do with anything?
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Postby Kowani » Mon May 10, 2021 1:51 pm

It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from
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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Mon May 10, 2021 1:51 pm

Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.


But what about the weird foreigners!? They're so strange and different! Surely they must be up to something?

:roll:
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Lady Victory
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Postby Lady Victory » Mon May 10, 2021 1:53 pm

Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from


I can tell you where it smells like it came from if you like... :unsure:
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Postby New yugoslavaia » Mon May 10, 2021 1:54 pm

Lady Victory wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.


But what about the weird foreigners!? They're so strange and different! Surely they must be up to something?

:roll:


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Postby Kowani » Mon May 10, 2021 1:55 pm

Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

Ironically, that was in the OP's article
they just didn't choose to show us that bit

Apart from the growing hostility to which they are subject, these religious sites are also suffering from deep negligence on the part of public authorities.

This state of affairs is partly explained by the fact that, by virtue of the 1905 law on the Separation of the Churches and the State, municipalities became the owners of France’s religious buildings. In many cases, they have been unable to meet the costs of maintaining the sites.

“These buildings have not been maintained for over a century, and they have never been subject to restoration work or protection measures against theft or fire,” Lamaze said.

He explained that only 15,000 Catholic sites are officially protected as historical monuments, while the other 30,000 buildings are practically left to decay.[...] He continued: “Fires are also sharply increasing because buildings are more and more dilapidated, and this negligence also attracts a lot of thefts of paintings, statues, or gold chalices...”
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon May 10, 2021 1:59 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

Ironically, that was in the OP's article
they just didn't choose to show us that bit

Apart from the growing hostility to which they are subject, these religious sites are also suffering from deep negligence on the part of public authorities.

This state of affairs is partly explained by the fact that, by virtue of the 1905 law on the Separation of the Churches and the State, municipalities became the owners of France’s religious buildings. In many cases, they have been unable to meet the costs of maintaining the sites.

“These buildings have not been maintained for over a century, and they have never been subject to restoration work or protection measures against theft or fire,” Lamaze said.

He explained that only 15,000 Catholic sites are officially protected as historical monuments, while the other 30,000 buildings are practically left to decay.[...] He continued: “Fires are also sharply increasing because buildings are more and more dilapidated, and this negligence also attracts a lot of thefts of paintings, statues, or gold chalices...”

The 5head quantum muslim plot of allowing Catholic sites to go unattended and without maintenance for over 100 years so they catch fire.
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Postby Velem » Mon May 10, 2021 1:59 pm

I see no problem in that.

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Wink Wonk We Like Stonks
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Postby Wink Wonk We Like Stonks » Mon May 10, 2021 2:00 pm

interesting fake-sounding-statement, but more importantly, how many guillotines are built and palaces vandalized in modern france?

even if this was true, certainly there are many more churches than mosques in france? title seems misleading.
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Postby Nilokeras » Mon May 10, 2021 2:00 pm

Kowani wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:Quite the reach OP. Couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that the majority of the churches that fall victim to vandalism are old and probably disused in depopulated mostly Christian and white parts of France rather than some sinister plot by the Moslems.

It's a real shame since there's actually an interesting angle about how modern neoliberal governments habitually underfund the preservation of heritage buildings but you decided to go with the most boring angle possible.

Ironically, that was in the OP's article
they just didn't choose to show us that bit

Apart from the growing hostility to which they are subject, these religious sites are also suffering from deep negligence on the part of public authorities.

This state of affairs is partly explained by the fact that, by virtue of the 1905 law on the Separation of the Churches and the State, municipalities became the owners of France’s religious buildings. In many cases, they have been unable to meet the costs of maintaining the sites.

“These buildings have not been maintained for over a century, and they have never been subject to restoration work or protection measures against theft or fire,” Lamaze said.

He explained that only 15,000 Catholic sites are officially protected as historical monuments, while the other 30,000 buildings are practically left to decay.[...] He continued: “Fires are also sharply increasing because buildings are more and more dilapidated, and this negligence also attracts a lot of thefts of paintings, statues, or gold chalices...”


Ah something actually interesting. let's talk about this instead

After the Notre Dame fire the French state was under renewed pressure to increase the amount of funding provided to municipalities to maintain the many heritage buildings they inherited, and they decided to do it in peak neoliberal manner: [url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/french-landmarks-to-be-saved-with-funds-from-heritage-scratchcards through selling specialty 'heritage' branded lottery tickets.[/url]

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1 Mosque Built, 1 Christian Monument Destroyed Every 2 Weeks

Postby Deacarsia » Mon May 10, 2021 2:01 pm

This is a shameful and terrifying statistic.
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Postby Kubra » Mon May 10, 2021 2:02 pm

Call me back when the sacré cœur is on the list, so I can do a little jig.
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Postby Necroghastia » Mon May 10, 2021 2:04 pm

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Postby Shofercia » Mon May 10, 2021 2:04 pm

Vassenor wrote:
The Sovereign Realist State wrote:(not sure if already posted)
One Mosque Built, One Christian Monument Destroyed Every Two Weeks In "Modern France".

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... -two-weeks

"One religious building is disappearing in France every two weeks.

That is the conclusion of Edouard de Lamaze, president of the Observatoire du patrimoine religieux (Observatory of Religious Heritage) in Paris.

He is raising the alarm in the French media about the gradual disappearance of religious edifices in a country known as the “eldest daughter of the Church” because the Frankish King Clovis I embraced Catholicism in 496.

Lamaze’s appeal for increased awareness came after a fire destroyed the 16th-century Church of Saint-Pierre in Romilly-la-Puthenaye, Normandy, northern France. The fire, deemed accidental, took place on April 15, exactly two years after the blaze that devastated Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.
...
Lamaze told CNA in an interview that in addition to one religious building disappearing every two weeks -- by demolition, transformation, destruction by fire, or collapse -- two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson.

“Although Catholic monuments are still ahead, one mosque is erected every 15 days in France, while one Christian building is destroyed at the same pace,” Lamaze said. “It creates a tipping point on the territory that should be taken into account.”
"

A lot of those 'accidental' fires going around lately in France.
Such a drag that all the targeted vandalism seems to affect christian iconography and spare muslim.
Coincidences, coincidences...


So your evidence for vandalism rather than accident is what, exactly?


That was in the article that you quoted: two-thirds of fires in religious buildings are due to arson

Unless, of course, you can prove how arson can be accidental Vass.


Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from


You're not the only one.


Lady Victory wrote:
Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from


I can tell you where it smells like it came from if you like... :unsure:


I still can't get over the "every two weeks" claim, can you use your sense of smell to back it up? That claim seems oddly specific, almost olfactory.


Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:interesting fake-sounding-statement, but more importantly, how many guillotines are built and palaces vandalized in modern france?

even if this was true, certainly there are many more churches than mosques in france? title seems misleading.


Can we not give the French those ideas?
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Postby SKM » Mon May 10, 2021 2:05 pm

Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:interesting fake-sounding-statement, but more importantly, how many guillotines are built and palaces vandalized in modern france?

even if this was true, certainly there are many more churches than mosques in france? title seems misleading.

Actually, France abolished the death penalty 40 years ago, and of course the government cares much more for non-religious historical sites.

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Maineiacs
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Postby Maineiacs » Mon May 10, 2021 2:07 pm

Kowani wrote:It's very odd how the actual organization this guy works for, the Observatoire du Patrimoine Religieux does not actually have any analysis to back up this claim

In fact, searching their site for the word "mosquée" (mosque in french) doesn't come up with anyything more recent than 2013, and many of those don't even deal with France.

Hm
I wonder where this data came from



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Postby Insaanistan » Mon May 10, 2021 2:08 pm

The OP knows a mosque just got burned down, right?
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