Christianity and mental illness

[The Cat-Tribe]

I need help convincing someone that believes in Christianity that mental illness is real and is not just something made up by the Devil.

I know this is a weird topic. I have a new, close friend who is bi-polar and a substance abuser. She has important figures in her life that, although they accept she should get treatment for the substance abuse, say that her diagnoses of mental illness are just lies the Devil has convinced her of and she needs no help for those issues other than prayer.

She won't listen to me because I am not a Christian, so I just don't know.

Obviously any information or links that might be persuasive would be appreciated, but I'm also curious as to what debate this might stir on NSG.

[Parthenon]

Convert to Christianity then help her. Sounds to be your only solution.

[Rejistania]

Maybe one way to explain them the issue is to correlate it with physical illness. They will go to the doctor if they have a broken leg, so why not accept help against a 'broken' brain chemistry?

(If they don't search medical help even for these issues, you cannot help them, I guess)

[Smunkeeville]

Many Christians avoid help for their mental health problems because they view the profession of psychiatry as threatening to their worldview. There is a lot of pressure in Christianity to be "joyful" through tribulations, if someone is not happy it can be as if they are not close enough to God.

It might be helpful to refer her to her medical doctor and get on medication and then assure her she can receive counseling from pastoral care, but explain to her that her condition is physical and requires medication, it's not something she can "will" herself out of. It's too easy for people to convince her that mental illness is all in her mind.

[Muravyets]

I wouldn't convert, personally, but perhaps find some other Christian authorities to refer her to? I don't believe every single Christian group in the world dismisses mental illness as a satanic myth (irony!).

But to be honest, there may not be much you can do beside be available for when she finally does break down completely. Most recovery programs do say the person first has to admit they have a problem or else they won't even seek real help. A person blaming their problems on the devil, and dismissing treatment as a lie of the devil too, are just ways of denying that the problem is real and that they really have it.

[Galloism]

At the risk of Godwinning, didn't the Nazis experiment on their prisoners to attempt to use various substances to "induce" mental illness? If I'm remembering correctly, this is quite simple proof that an unbalanced chemistry in the body can cause aberrant behavior. By proving that, you can then jump to the fact that the body might naturally (or unnaturally, if you're so inclined) alter its chemistry so that it operates incorrectly.

That's my first thought, anyway. There's lots of scientific studies on the subject of brain chemistry and the effects of varying levels of unbalanced chemicals in the brain. However, I doubt dropping a giant stack of these studies on her desk is going to help.

[Chumblywumbly]

I recommend would get in touch with a local church group. One, obviously, that has a more realistic picture of mental health problems.

If where you live is anything like where I live, there should be many such outreach groups.

EDIT: I haven't looked at them closely, but something like this group?

[The Cat-Tribe]

Convert to Christianity then help her. Sounds to be your only solution.

Not an option, I'm afraid.

[The Cat-Tribe]

Maybe one way to explain them the issue is to correlate it with physical illness. They will go to the doctor if they have a broken leg, so why not accept help against a 'broken' brain chemistry?

(If they don't search medical help even for these issues, you cannot help them, I guess)

I've tried this argument.

I've also pointed out that mental illness has been studied in animals. Does the Devil make them fake symptoms too?

[The Cat-Tribe]

I won't respond to every post, but thank you for the helpful feedback so far. The situation is very frustrating.

It may be there is nothing I can do. My best bet is probably going to be find "good" Christian psychiatric resources to refer her too.

[Fson]

Tell her to wise the shit up, and if she still doesnt listen have her sectioned.

Its for her own good.

[Chetssaland]

I'm a Christian and I know that mental illness is real. I'm pretty sure thats not taught anywhere that the devill created mentel illness.

[The Cat-Tribe]

I'm a Christian and I know that mental illness is real. I'm pretty sure thats not taught anywhere that the devill created mentel illness.

Do you know of any examples in the Bible of someone being mentally ill?

[Domminus]

You guys are going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter if she believes that the mental illness is real or the devil. That's irrelevant. What you need to do is convince her that, if she wants to please God, she has to beat the devil and stop him from tricking her. Since she's having trouble doing it on her own, she should get one of those little magic pills to assist her until she can handle it on her own (probably never, but getting her started is a good beginning).

Ergo, play into the beliefs - don't crush them. Playing into them works better. If you can convince her that God would want her to beat the Devil any way she can, and then convince her that the doctor can help her beat the devil, she gets to take the pill and still think whatever it is she wants to think.

[Smunkeeville]

I won't respond to every post, but thank you for the helpful feedback so far. The situation is very frustrating.

It may be there is nothing I can do. My best bet is probably going to be find "good" Christian psychiatric resources to refer her too.

You might start out with visiting your local hospital, they often have a chaplain on duty. Since the chaplains have to be wiling/able to minister to many different religions they are usually from what most people would consider more "liberal" denominations and probably have ties in the community with people who might be able to help you.

[Chetssaland]

I'm a Christian and I know that mental illness is real. I'm pretty sure thats not taught anywhere that the devill created mentel illness.

Do you know of any examples in the Bible of someone being mentally ill?

I know that Moses had a bit of a mental disorder. He didn't talk well and if I remember correctly, he stuttered quite a bit. I'm sure theres more but can't think of any at the moment.

[The Cat-Tribe]

You guys are going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter if she believes that the mental illness is real or the devil. That's irrelevant. What you need to do is convince her that, if she wants to please God, she has to beat the devil and stop him from tricking her. Since she's having trouble doing it on her own, she should get one of those little magic pills to assist her until she can handle it on her own (probably never, but getting her started is a good beginning).

Ergo, play into the beliefs - don't crush them. Playing into them works better. If you can convince her that God would want her to beat the Devil any way she can, and then convince her that the doctor can help her beat the devil, she gets to take the pill and still think whatever it is she wants to think.

Good idea. I've tried a similar tact. I think that, just as God would want one to get medical help to heal a broken leg or fight cancer, God would want one to use the tools available -- medicine, therapy, etc -- to fight mental illness.

Basically, I am arguing with someone that is irrational and is being fed a viewpoint that is ignorant and harmful and I'm trying to fight that influence. Apparently, the very idea of psychiatric medicine is a Devil's tool.

[Conserative Morality]

I'm sure the Catholic Church has dealt with this before. At least ever since they got past their 'Science = Irrelevant' stage. Try checking up with a priest, see if he can convince her.

[Domminus]

You guys are going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter if she believes that the mental illness is real or the devil. That's irrelevant. What you need to do is convince her that, if she wants to please God, she has to beat the devil and stop him from tricking her. Since she's having trouble doing it on her own, she should get one of those little magic pills to assist her until she can handle it on her own (probably never, but getting her started is a good beginning).

Ergo, play into the beliefs - don't crush them. Playing into them works better. If you can convince her that God would want her to beat the Devil any way she can, and then convince her that the doctor can help her beat the devil, she gets to take the pill and still think whatever it is she wants to think.

Good idea. I've tried a similar tact. I think that, just as God would want one to get medical help to heal a broken leg or fight cancer, God would want one to use the tools available -- medicine, therapy, etc -- to fight mental illness.

Basically, I am arguing with someone that is irrational and is being fed a viewpoint that is ignorant and harmful and I'm trying to fight that influence. Apparently, the very idea of psychiatric medicine is a Devil's tool.

Yeah, it's not unheard of sadly to say.

However, if you can use logic (twisted logic, but logic based on premises that she's constructed) to show that she needs to beat the devil, then it becomes a moral imperative to do so. Rather than simply being a medical issue that needs correction, it becomes an issue of morality where she must do anything to beat the Devil. That might swing some more weight. Then again, maybe not. I don't know her and can't accurately predict her reaction. It's just a thought I had.

Take it or leave it, as you wish.

[Glen Belt]

I'm a Christian and I know that mental illness is real. I'm pretty sure thats not taught anywhere that the devill created mentel illness.

what have you been everywhere?

[Smunkeeville]

I'm a Christian and I know that mental illness is real. I'm pretty sure thats not taught anywhere that the devill created mentel illness.

Do you know of any examples in the Bible of someone being mentally ill?

Nebuchadnezzar went crazy about the 4th chapter of Daniel, it wasn't demon possessed or a lie of the devil, he just went crazy... it was implied heavily that it was punishment from God for being arrogant and generally disrespecting the Jewish religion.

I'm not sure that example would be very helpful though, because after wandering around insane for a while, he eventually recovered miraculously.

[Chetssaland]

You guys are going about this the wrong way. It doesn't matter if she believes that the mental illness is real or the devil. That's irrelevant. What you need to do is convince her that, if she wants to please God, she has to beat the devil and stop him from tricking her. Since she's having trouble doing it on her own, she should get one of those little magic pills to assist her until she can handle it on her own (probably never, but getting her started is a good beginning).

Ergo, play into the beliefs - don't crush them. Playing into them works better. If you can convince her that God would want her to beat the Devil any way she can, and then convince her that the doctor can help her beat the devil, she gets to take the pill and still think whatever it is she wants to think.

Good idea. I've tried a similar tact. I think that, just as God would want one to get medical help to heal a broken leg or fight cancer, God would want one to use the tools available -- medicine, therapy, etc -- to fight mental illness.

Basically, I am arguing with someone that is irrational and is being fed a viewpoint that is ignorant and harmful and I'm trying to fight that influence. Apparently, the very idea of psychiatric medicine is a Devil's tool.

Yes it is the misuderstood Christians that believe that medicines and such are evil. Like the story I heard when I was little: There was a flood and a man was on top of his house waiting to get rescued. A boat went by and told him to hop in and he refused and told him that God will save him. Then another boat went by and the same thing happened. One more boat came and the same happened. He drowned soon after and whe nhe was in Heaven he asked God why he didn't save him and God replied, "Well I sent 3 boats to save you."

[Aelosia]

I am a catholic, do I count as christian or not?

[Chetssaland]

I'm a Christian and I know that mental illness is real. I'm pretty sure thats not taught anywhere that the devill created mentel illness.

what have you been everywhere?

No but I'd say my church has the basics down of Christianity. Maybe its some different form that she believes in I guess.

[Chetssaland]

I am a catholic, do I count as christian or not?

Yeah. You count, you have the same basic beleifs that Christians have. Some beliefs differ though, like Purgatory.