by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:08 pm
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Nilokeras » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:31 pm
by Lady Victory » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:46 pm
Nilokeras wrote:It's amazing, I can actually feel the neurons in my prefrontal cortex dying as they try to parse this disjointed muddle. What exactly is the point of this other than as a vehicle to deliver potshots against 'the left' about student loans and some strange misogynist ideas about sexual politics?
by Conservative Republic Of Huang » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:47 pm
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:02 pm
Lady Victory wrote:Nilokeras wrote:It's amazing, I can actually feel the neurons in my prefrontal cortex dying as they try to parse this disjointed muddle. What exactly is the point of this other than as a vehicle to deliver potshots against 'the left' about student loans and some strange misogynist ideas about sexual politics?
I believe what he's trying to get at is that men shouldn't have to pay child support if they don't want anything to do with the kid.
Why he didn't just say that, I've no idea.
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Lady Victory » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:04 pm
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Lady Victory wrote:
I believe what he's trying to get at is that men shouldn't have to pay child support if they don't want anything to do with the kid.
Why he didn't just say that, I've no idea.
Because it's not what I was saying?
I specifically referred to situations where having to pay right away would throw him into poverty, like if he has to drop out of college or something. I specifically mentioned, within the OP, the idea of having them pay back what they owe once they're back on their feet.
But at least now I know you're not above putting words in people's mouths.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:12 pm
Lady Victory wrote:I have to put words in your mouth, because otherwise I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say.
Lady Victory wrote:And apparently neither does anyone else.
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Sparanoda » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:16 pm
Lady Victory wrote:GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Because it's not what I was saying?
I specifically referred to situations where having to pay right away would throw him into poverty, like if he has to drop out of college or something. I specifically mentioned, within the OP, the idea of having them pay back what they owe once they're back on their feet.
But at least now I know you're not above putting words in people's mouths.
I have to put words in your mouth, because otherwise I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say. And apparently neither does anyone else.
by Lady Victory » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:20 pm
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Lady Victory wrote:I have to put words in your mouth, because otherwise I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say.
That's not how logic works. That's what follow-up questions are for.
Suppose I claimed to think you were accusing invisible dragons of snorting cocaine. Would it be okay to say I could make up a placeholder if I "didn't know" what you were trying to say? If not, what basis is there, if any, for your placeholder, and why should I take someone who misrepresented what I was saying at their word on it?Lady Victory wrote:And apparently neither does anyone else.
Either that or they don't want to admit to holding unpopular opinions on child support but can't bring themselves to defend the status quo either.
Sparanoda wrote:Lady Victory wrote:
I have to put words in your mouth, because otherwise I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say. And apparently neither does anyone else.
I understood it. It makes sense. Not sure where some of you are getting "potshots at the left" from. Still, it seems like there were a few different points put together, making it a bit confusing, but there is no need to strawman their argument and dismiss it by essentially saying they are strawman-ing. That's rude and shameful, honestly.
by Nilokeras » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:21 pm
Sparanoda wrote:Lady Victory wrote:
I have to put words in your mouth, because otherwise I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say. And apparently neither does anyone else.
I understood it. It makes sense. Not sure where some of you are getting "potshots at the left" from. Still, it seems like there were a few different points put together, making it a bit confusing, but there is no need to strawman their argument and dismiss it by essentially saying they are strawman-ing. That's rude and shameful, honestly.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:23 pm
Lady Victory wrote:That's not at all what I was doing. I misinterpreted what he was saying, is all.
Lady Victory wrote:Which is considerably easy giving how poorly worded the OP is and confusing it is to follow.
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Lady Victory » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:31 pm
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Lady Victory wrote:That's not at all what I was doing. I misinterpreted what he was saying, is all.
No. Excuses.
Anyone can strawman someone and then claim misunderstanding. If you're not sure what someone's saying, you ask. That's it.Lady Victory wrote:Which is considerably easy giving how poorly worded the OP is and confusing it is to follow.
Tell me where in the post you got lost, then.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:36 pm
Nilokeras wrote:Sparanoda wrote:I understood it. It makes sense. Not sure where some of you are getting "potshots at the left" from. Still, it seems like there were a few different points put together, making it a bit confusing, but there is no need to strawman their argument and dismiss it by essentially saying they are strawman-ing. That's rude and shameful, honestly.
What is the bizarre side note about student loan forgiveness and calling the left 'entitled' to it if not a potshot?
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:54 pm
Lady Victory wrote:Literally all of it. It's completely incohesive and just trails off into barely related topics of discussion using hamfisted anecdotes and cheap jabs at Leftists.
Lady Victory wrote:I genuinely couldn't understand what you were trying to discuss, and made an assumption out of ignorant. Accuse me of "strawmanning" all you like; that's not what happened, and I don't know why you're making a big deal out of this.
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Nilokeras » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:57 pm
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Nilokeras wrote:
What is the bizarre side note about student loan forgiveness and calling the left 'entitled' to it if not a potshot?
My point is the apparent contradiction in their worldview. The sense of entitlement to having the taxpayers pay for their student loans even though they would never approve of spending their own on covering a few years' worth of child support bills so some other guy doesn't have to drop out for taking the exact same risk they did.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:07 pm
Nilokeras wrote:So much to unpack here, from the interesting proposition that leftists are not or will not be taxpayers
Nilokeras wrote:to the curious idea that people on the left would somehow not be in favour of some sort of universal childcare supports provided by the state.
Nilokeras wrote:Doubly curious that the criticism seems more aimed at the liberal and left-centrist position of using the state to enforce individual responsibility, considering you profess to be 'centre left'.
Almost as though there's more at play here behind the cutesy alt profile name and coyness about your beliefs, and maybe you don't actually identify with the 'centre left' in your heart of hearts.
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Odreria » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:11 pm
Valrifell wrote:
Disregard whatever this poster says
by Nilokeras » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:19 pm
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:A plurality of voters made abortion legal, but universal childcare supports not provided. A plurality of voters have left it up to fathers, including those who cannot yet afford children, to contribute an amount that doesn't bring the kid and mother out of poverty, just him in with them.
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:They wouldn't have been able to do that without at least SOME overlap with supporters of the right to a legal abortion, be they liberals or libertarians.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:25 pm
Nilokeras wrote:GuessTheAltAccount wrote:A plurality of voters made abortion legal, but universal childcare supports not provided. A plurality of voters have left it up to fathers, including those who cannot yet afford children, to contribute an amount that doesn't bring the kid and mother out of poverty, just him in with them.
Ah see now we've begun to retreat - now it's 'the voters' who are getting blamed for the liberal position of legally-enforced personal responsibility, not 'the left'.
Is it supposed to be some major revelation that people with an individualistic political worldview consider reproductive rights and the state's responsibility towards children in individualistic terms?
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Sparanoda » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:29 pm
Lady Victory wrote:Sparanoda wrote:I understood it. It makes sense. Not sure where some of you are getting "potshots at the left" from. Still, it seems like there were a few different points put together, making it a bit confusing, but there is no need to strawman their argument and dismiss it by essentially saying they are strawman-ing. That's rude and shameful, honestly.
That's not at all what I was doing. I misinterpreted what he was saying, is all. Which is considerably easy giving how poorly worded the OP is and confusing it is to follow. I haven't "strawmanned" anyone; that was Nilokeras, not me.
by Nilokeras » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:29 pm
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Nilokeras wrote:
Ah see now we've begun to retreat - now it's 'the voters' who are getting blamed for the liberal position of legally-enforced personal responsibility, not 'the left'.
Is it supposed to be some major revelation that people with an individualistic political worldview consider reproductive rights and the state's responsibility towards children in individualistic terms?
Votes for libertarian candidates are in single digit percentages in election after election. Not enough to be pivotal. That suggests at least a few liberal voters played a vital role in the status quo that forces fathers into poverty for taking the same risk everyone else did, while sympathizing more with mothers who took that same risk.
So no, you didn't really spot any real backpedalling. Nice try, though.
by GuessTheAltAccount » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:37 pm
Nilokeras wrote:GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Votes for libertarian candidates are in single digit percentages in election after election. Not enough to be pivotal. That suggests at least a few liberal voters played a vital role in the status quo that forces fathers into poverty for taking the same risk everyone else did, while sympathizing more with mothers who took that same risk.
So no, you didn't really spot any real backpedalling. Nice try, though.
Liberals are only 'leftists' if you position yourself to their right - which again, is a very strange thing for someone who professes to be on the 'centre left' (and therefore likely among those liberals) to do.
Bombadil wrote:My girlfriend wanted me to treat her like a princess, so I arranged for her to be married to a stranger to strengthen our alliance with Poland.
by Nilokeras » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:43 pm
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:In the original sense; as defined by the French Parliament; less traditionalist than the average person; it applies to me. Maybe following other non-traditionalists lockstep doesn't follow from it.
GuessTheAltAccount wrote:Which leaves the question of why a plurality of voters has a blind spot on this issue. Why if they make it out to be hypocritical to criminalize abortion without making motherhood affordable do they not make it out to be hypocritical to criminalize deadbeat dads without making fatherhood affordable, or at least covering the bill until he's back on his feet?
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