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Is the EU worth it?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Jestar Falls
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Is the EU worth it?

Postby Jestar Falls » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:35 pm

Right now I would like to discuss the EU. Specifically, if it's good for its citizens and we should keep it, or is it not worth it and we should end it. Here is a good reference source I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxutY7ss1v4

You can discuss:
  • The social policies of the EU
  • The economic policies of the EU
  • The scientific policies of the EU
  • The military of the EU
  • The political process of the EU

Rember this is a discussion, not an argument. Please respect other's views and ideas regardless of your own.
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Willtime
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Posts: 161
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Willtime » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:47 pm

Jestar Falls wrote:Right now I would like to discuss the EU. Specifically, if it's good for its citizens and we should keep it, or is it not worth it and we should end it. Here is a good reference source I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxutY7ss1v4

You can discuss:
  • The social policies of the EU
  • The economic policies of the EU
  • The scientific policies of the EU
  • The military of the EU
  • The political process of the EU

Rember this is a discussion, not an argument. Please respect other's views and ideas regardless of your own.


Economic,military,political process.

It worths,of course.
Or you would like to be ruled by the US?
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The Nihilistic view
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Posts: 10057
Founded: May 14, 2013
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The Nihilistic view » Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:20 pm

This will trigger some people and I can sit back safe in a knowledge we decided it wasn't worth it and watch. :lol:
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57525
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:16 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:This will trigger some people and I can sit back safe in a knowledge we decided it wasn't worth it and watch. :lol:


And what have we actually gained from that decision and what have we lost?

Something about a trillion pounds of assets being pulled out of the country. And the only reason it's not more is because COVID slowed the pullout down.
Last edited by Vassenor on Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:16 am

It is worth it.

I don't want to go through the hassle of getting a work permit.
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Greater Miami Shores
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9024
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:25 am

Jestar Falls wrote:Right now I would like to discuss the EU. Specifically, if it's good for its citizens and we should keep it, or is it not worth it and we should end it. Here is a good reference source I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxutY7ss1v4

You can discuss:
  • The social policies of the EU
  • The economic policies of the EU
  • The scientific policies of the EU
  • The military of the EU
  • The political process of the EU


Rember this is a discussion, not an argument. Please respect other's views and ideas regardless of your own.

Please create a good Poll for your thread if you wish to do so?

I support a Union of European Nations, not a United States of Europe. But the current European administration needs reform, it thinks and acts like a United State's of Europe. It thinks it is a United States of Europe. No one is perfect, only God is Perfect for those who believe there is a God and Sprits, or Ghosts if you prefer. Like I believe there is a God and Spirits, as I have posted about a few times on the forums in details of when I lived in my native nation of Cuba. I RP the nation of Budapest Hungary, with Prime Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary. He really does believe in a Union of European Nations for Europeans, not a United States of Europe, as the European Administration thinks it is. Contrary to popular opinion Prime Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary, is a great Prime Minister of Hungary. Prime Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary has done and does a lot for Hungary. Prime Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary is a masterful Politician.

Prime Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary, builts schools and other projects for the Hungarian minorities in the Surrounding Nations, he lets them vote in Hungarian elections, since I RP Budapest Hungary I follow him and Hungary news from time to time, even if I don't update my nation, but I learn about the real world nation of Hungary.

I have many real world nations of European nations and a few EU nations, with my real world nations, regional world nations and empire nations , I have taken over the real world :) lol. I am Political RP addict with real world nations, real world statistics with real world leaders and VIPs with Pics, with real world statistics as much as possible, contrary to popular opinion, it is not easy to gather all of the real world statistics of real world nations. I even have the Kingdom of the Continent of Atlantis, it would be awesome if any part of Platos Atlantis is discovered as true. I also RP the Constitutional Monarchy of the Continent of Antarctica.

I strongly support a Union of European Nations, not a United States of Europe, the current number one issue of Europe is immigration listen to Prime Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary, he can save Europe as a Union of European Nations, and listen to the leaders of Poland and a few other nations. I RP NS Poland, many European and real world nations, and a few EU Nations.

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Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:16 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Kilobugya
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5630
Founded: Apr 05, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Kilobugya » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:27 am

I've a very contrasted view on EU. In short I like the idea of it but not the implementation of it.

In one hand, freedom of movement, uniformed regulations on industrial standards or customer protections, single currency, and being able to negotiate as a united front in many international dealings is good and required thing.

On the other hand, the treaties that make the EU are pretty bad - not very democratic, with a strong emphasis on "free market" as the solution to everything, putting social and fiscal systems against each others forcing a downward spiral. And it's hard to reform it.

I voted "NO" in 2005 referendum on the "constitution", and if my country (France) were not part of EU (like say Norway or Switzerland) I would probably vote against joining it in the current situation. But on the other hand, I would definitely vote against a Frexit, and I think Brexit was a very silly idea. The harm done in leaving once you're in is much greater than the (very real) problems the current EU has.
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Cameroi
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Posts: 15667
Founded: Dec 24, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cameroi » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:30 am

it is worth not being swallowed up by either the u.s. nor its adversaries.
it is not however, the little green pieces of paper that are unhappy.
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Gunov
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 24
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Gunov » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:32 am

I know that this will be controversial but I believe that the EU in its current state is not worth it. It is mainly an organization whose main goal is to make profits for capitalism. I believe that a European Union could be good if it can be reformed. However in its current form I don't see it being reformed so I believe that it would be beneficial for the workers if some nations left the EU. It has done bad things to several of the more poorer nations in Europe, because it is useful for capitalists to exploit the poor.

So TLDR is that the EU needs to be reformed. If it can't be reformed then it should be reorganized in a way that would be good for the workers and not the elite.

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Risottia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53480
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:41 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:I support a Union of European Nations, not a United States of Europe.

So you're a supporter of the status quo? The EU is effectively ruled by the member countries through the Council - the directly-elected Parliament doesn't have the power to propose bills, unlike the Council.


Anyway, the sooner we get an EU with:
a) a proper bicameral parliament, directly elected, with confidence power over the Commission
b) exclusive competence over military, foreign, border and immigration policies
c) common tax code
d) common penal and civil codes
e) common banking and share market system
the better.

The countries that don't want an unification can just move to the EEA or straight out.
Last edited by Risottia on Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Austreylia
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Mar 07, 2021
New York Times Democracy

Postby Austreylia » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:44 am

The E.U. is a bureaucratic dumpster fire. Of course it's not worth it.
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Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 57525
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Vassenor » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:46 am

Austreylia wrote:The E.U. is a bureaucratic dumpster fire. Of course it's not worth it.


Lets see some actual examples of this then.
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Greater Miami Shores
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9024
Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:52 am

Risottia wrote:
Greater Miami Shores wrote:I support a Union of European Nations, not a United States of Europe.

So you're a supporter of the status quo? The EU is effectively ruled by the member countries through the Council - the directly-elected Parliament doesn't have the power to propose bills, unlike the Council.


Anyway, the sooner we get an EU with:
a) a proper bicameral parliament, directly elected, with confidence power over the Commission
b) exclusive competence over military, foreign, border and immigration policies
c) common tax code
d) common penal and civil codes
e) common banking and share market system
the better.

The countries that don't want an unification can just move to the EEA or straight out.

Dude, you did not read my post in full context, I am not a supporter of the current status quo? The EU as a UN of European nations needs massive reform, so the current and future EU administrations don't continue to think they are a United States of Europe.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Engadine Mcdonalds 1997
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 137
Founded: Jan 21, 2021
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:09 am

The European Union is tough to get an opinion of, speaking as an outsider. On the one hand, you have freedom of movement that could be interpreted as either a positive or negative, a somewhat inefficient bureaucracy that has to deal with many differant political chambers, and how the organisation is practically dictated by the whims of Germany and France (both having the largest populations and economies). But ultimately... it still gets results that are beneficial for the diplomatic relations between member states, as well as adopting a firmer stance on climate change.

However I believe that the EU should either 'devolve' into more of a loose conglomeration of trading nations, or 'centralise' into a sort of Federation of European Nations to "cut the shit" in terms of bureaucracy, as well as forming a stronger bulwark against American, Russian and Chinese influence for Europe as a whole. The EU as it stands is simultaneously both too de-centralised and over-centralised for what it is, and it should take a solid stance as to what it is. Want to be a loose collection of nations that is primarily tied by trade agreements? Cool, want to federalise into one mega-nation? Cool.
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Greater Miami Shores
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Founded: Aug 06, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Greater Miami Shores » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:17 am

Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 wrote:The European Union is tough to get an opinion of, speaking as an outsider. On the one hand, you have freedom of movement that could be interpreted as either a positive or negative, a somewhat inefficient bureaucracy that has to deal with many differant political chambers, and how the organisation is practically dictated by the whims of Germany and France (both having the largest populations and economies). But ultimately... it still gets results that are beneficial for the diplomatic relations between member states, as well as adopting a firmer stance on climate change.

However I believe that the EU should either 'devolve' into more of a loose conglomeration of trading nations, or 'centralise' into a sort of Federation of European Nations to "cut the shit" in terms of bureaucracy, as well as forming a stronger bulwark against American, Russian and Chinese influence for Europe as a whole. The EU as it stands is simultaneously both too de-centralised and over-centralised for what it is, and it should take a solid stance as to what it is. Want to be a loose collection of nations that is primarily tied by trade agreements? Cool, want to federalise into one mega-nation? Cool.

I strongly agree with you on these parts, However I believe that the EU should either 'devolve' into more of a loose conglomeration of trading nations, or 'centralise' into a sort of Federation of European Nations to "cut the shit" in terms of bureaucracy, Want to be a loose collection of nations that is primarily tied by trade agreements?
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Chan Island
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5540
Founded: Nov 26, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Chan Island » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:44 am

Yeah, it's worth it, the EU's pretty cool.
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The Huskar Social Union
Khan of Spam
 
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Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:37 am

Chan Island wrote:Yeah, it's worth it, the EU's pretty cool.

Has its issues and a lot of stupid tape but yeah its absolutely worth it.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7170
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:42 am

Absolutely, I wish we in the UK had not left.
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-Ocelot-
Minister
 
Posts: 2235
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby -Ocelot- » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:45 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:This will trigger some people and I can sit back safe in a knowledge we decided it wasn't worth it and watch. :lol:


Eh, not so sure about that. The UK will have to pay 7 billion pounds in 2021, with the total amount being ~33 billion pounds. Just to leave the union.

Not to mention the gigantic flight of capital that ensued when the UK left. London's role as a global financial center will decline in the future, which will impact the British people in the long run.

I hope Britain prospers outside the EU, but I can't see it happening.

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Gotland
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Gotland » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:57 am

To the major net beneficiaries of the EU, it is undoubtedly worth it: Germany's massive manufacturing export market is essentially protected by the EU; France's agricultural sector is propped up by the CAP; Poland is the single biggest recipient of direct EU funding; Spanish roads are paved with EU money; Eastern Europeans can work in the wealthy west for double their wages back home and then return enriched.

Meanwhile, you can see why the UK and others may feel (felt) aggrieved by membership: the UK and Germany are (were) the single largest contributors but, unlike Germany, the UK got membership of the single market but none of the manufacturing perks – indeed, the EU gave funding to companies to move from the UK to Eastern Europe. France receives billions in agricultural grants that protect its markets but the UK received pittance for its fisheries while all were allowed to fish there (looking at you in particular, Spain).

The EU probably was/is more good than harm but it's essentially the political legacy of a transcontinental experiment in neoliberalism and trickle down economics: the wealthiest people and companies have massively benefited from the EU. The middle classes got cheaper overseas holiday homes. The working class got cheaper holidays.

Personally, I think it should never have evolved past the EEC.
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Gotland
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Gotland » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:07 am

Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 wrote:as well as forming a stronger bulwark against American, Russian and Chinese influence for Europe as a whole.

For all I'm sometime pro-EU and sometimes anti-EU, I'm always in favour of this. We need a, frankly, sensible world power. The EU as it stands is a bit toothless, though. For all France has nukes and military prowess in West Africa, the UK (and especially the Royal Navy) – IMO – provided the real reach of "EU" clout.
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Dakini
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21580
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Dakini » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:09 am

I thought it was traditional for an OP to provide an opinion and not just a list of things to discuss?

I think the EU is fantastic. If my homeland (Canada) was eligible for membership I'd love for it to join.

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Islamic Holy Sites
Minister
 
Posts: 2169
Founded: Mar 20, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:13 am

Totally worth it.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1331
Founded: Sep 24, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:40 am

The European Union model is our future. This is the only model that will benefit humanity, rather than behave as ridiculous and anachronistic as fighting.
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Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Islamic Holy Sites
Minister
 
Posts: 2169
Founded: Mar 20, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Islamic Holy Sites » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:42 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The European Union model is our future.

Wait, why is Azerbaijan in there?
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