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[DRAFT] Captive Animals Act

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Jedinsto
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[DRAFT] Captive Animals Act

Postby Jedinsto » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:53 pm

I know this draft may sound crazy, but zoos (as defined here) are extremely cruel. One of the best examples would be dolphin shows, which plenty of research has shown to essentially be torture. While not all captive animals are in such extreme suffering, the shortened life spans and terrible quality of life so many animals experience is not right. If your zoos aren't cruel to the animals, you can keep them under this draft. Also I was too lazy to write this in character.


The World Assembly,

Noting the detrimental psychological effects on many captive animals,

Disgusted by the exploitation of suffering animals for entertainment,

Wishing to put an end to this immediately,

Hereby bans the holding of non-sapient, living animals capable of having emotions on public display in a manner far more damaging to their health compared to that of the same species in their natural habitats.
Last edited by Jedinsto on Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Drew Durrnil
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Postby Drew Durrnil » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:55 pm

As the author of the now-abandoned "Zoo Regulations" proposal, I suggest you abandon this proposal immediately.
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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:58 pm

Drew Durrnil wrote:As the author of the now-abandoned "Zoo Regulations" proposal, I suggest you abandon this proposal immediately.

I remember that draft well, and it somewhat served as an inspiration for this. Regulating zoos is a national issue sure, but banning them altogether.... that's just straight up civil rights imo. I still firmly believe civil rights is always an international issue.
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Drew Durrnil
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Postby Drew Durrnil » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:00 pm

Jedinsto wrote:
Drew Durrnil wrote:As the author of the now-abandoned "Zoo Regulations" proposal, I suggest you abandon this proposal immediately.

I remember that draft well, and it somewhat served as an inspiration for this. Regulating zoos is a national issue sure, but banning them altogether.... that's just straight up civil rights imo. I still firmly believe civil rights is always an international issue.

You have yet to have created a category and strength/area of effect. Also, this is a blanket ban on zoos, which is contradicted by your OOC.
Last edited by Drew Durrnil on Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:01 pm

Drew Durrnil wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:I remember that draft well, and it somewhat served as an inspiration for this. Regulating zoos is a national issue sure, but banning them altogether.... that's just straight up civil rights imo. I still firmly believe civil rights is always an international issue.

You have yet to have created a category and strength/area of effect. Also, this is a blanket ban on zoos, which is contradicted by your OOC.

I know, I like to determine all of that later into the drafting phase. This could be moral decency or civil rights, it's a decision I am yet to make.
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Drew Durrnil
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Postby Drew Durrnil » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:25 pm

Jedinsto wrote:
Drew Durrnil wrote:You have yet to have created a category and strength/area of effect. Also, this is a blanket ban on zoos, which is contradicted by your OOC.

I know, I like to determine all of that later into the drafting phase. This could be moral decency or civil rights, it's a decision I am yet to make.

Seems more like moral decency to me.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:27 pm

You could just say 'Hereby bans any location holding non-sapient, living animals capable of having emotions on public display in a manner detrimental to the health of any of the captive animals'
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Postby Tinhampton » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:31 pm

Alexander Smith, Tinhamptonian Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: Opposed in principle. A zoo in which animals are treated humanely would not in this proposal be treated as a zoo itself.
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Postby Molopovia » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:00 pm

Opposed

I think your main point should be prohibiting inhumane conditions in zoos and penalizing them for such, and not an all-out ban. That would just be ridiculous.

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Last edited by Molopovia on Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:08 pm

"Zoos are profoundly not an international issue."

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Postby Bananaistan » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:24 am

"Zoos are indeed an international issue. Most zoos "host" species well away from their natural habitat and often so far away, they're in an entirely different contintent.

"Full support. This particular nasty Victorian practice has gone on far too long."
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:20 am

Bananaistan wrote:"Zoos are indeed an international issue. Most zoos "host" species well away from their natural habitat and often so far away, they're in an entirely different contintent.

"Full support. This particular nasty Victorian practice has gone on far too long."

"There is no strong argument for why the interests of landscaping animals is of international note except insofar as it effects, directly, critical ecosystems. To the extent that this proposal effects endangered species and protected ecosystems, it is covered by extant law or can be covered by future law specifying which ecosystems should be protected. To the extent it imposes a moral rule about the welfare of animals, this is not an international issue."
Last edited by Separatist Peoples on Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ardiveds » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:23 am

"We do not believe any zoo exists which is not detrimental to the health of animals. Even the most humane zoos have some detrimental effects on an animal's health, even the natural habitat of animals have some detrimental effects on their. health. So do you really want to ban each and every zoo?"
Last edited by Ardiveds on Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jedinsto » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:27 am

Ardiveds wrote:"We do not believe any zoo exists which is not detrimental to the health of animals. Even the most humane zoos have some detrimental effects on an animal's health, even the natural habitat of animals have some detrimental effects on their. health. So do you really want to ban each and every zoo?"

"If what you're saying is true, then yes, that's exactly what I'm saying."

OOC: The definition will be reworded to more of what Honeydew suggested. I will still provide support with the preamble and everything.

Edit: Done. I'm not sure what it takes to earn a co-author credit so I will credit Honeydew if he so requests.
Last edited by Jedinsto on Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ardiveds » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:44 am

Jedinsto wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:"We do not believe any zoo exists which is not detrimental to the health of animals. Even the most humane zoos have some detrimental effects on an animal's health, even the natural habitat of animals have some detrimental effects on their. health. So do you really want to ban each and every zoo?"

"If what you're saying is true, then yes, that's exactly what I'm saying."

OOC: The definition will be reworded to more of what Honeydew suggested. I will still provide support with the preamble and everything.

OOC: That still sets an impossible standard for any irl zoo to achieve. If you just want to make sure animals are treated humanely, you've chosen an absolutely terrible approach. The topic pf zoo regulation could defnitely use a resolution but not this lazy knee jerk.
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Postby Jedinsto » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:49 am

Ardiveds wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:"If what you're saying is true, then yes, that's exactly what I'm saying."

OOC: The definition will be reworded to more of what Honeydew suggested. I will still provide support with the preamble and everything.

OOC: That still sets an impossible standard for any irl zoo to achieve. If you just want to make sure animals are treated humanely, you've chosen an absolutely terrible approach. The topic pf zoo regulation could defnitely use a resolution but not this lazy knee jerk.

I understand this post did not account for the new draft but I will respond to it anyways. If animals are to be held captive, why should they be treated like absolute horse shit? There are IRL zoos that hold animals for the purposes of protecting the species, i.e. pandas on reserves, and their life spans have been nearly doubled in captivity. If animals are to be held captive for entertainment and money, they are not going to suffer.
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Postby Ardiveds » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:31 am

Jedinsto wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:
OOC: That still sets an impossible standard for any irl zoo to achieve. If you just want to make sure animals are treated humanely, you've chosen an absolutely terrible approach. The topic pf zoo regulation could defnitely use a resolution but not this lazy knee jerk.

I understand this post did not account for the new draft but I will respond to it anyways. If animals are to be held captive, why should they be treated like absolute horse shit? There are IRL zoos that hold animals for the purposes of protecting the species, i.e. pandas on reserves, and their life spans have been nearly doubled in captivity. If animals are to be held captive for entertainment and money, they are not going to suffer.

OOC: Indeed I didn't see the new draft. It is far more reasonable.
And I do think they shouldn't be treated like horse shit which is why I said that proposals for regulation of zoos is necessary but you're approaching it from the wrong angle. Instead of this 'defining zoos as inhumane zoos' and then ban ""zoos"", you should do what Drew's proposal did and lay out clear regulations for all zoos to follow. That you have a much higher chance avoiding loopholes and unintended interpretations.
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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:29 pm

Ardiveds wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:I understand this post did not account for the new draft but I will respond to it anyways. If animals are to be held captive, why should they be treated like absolute horse shit? There are IRL zoos that hold animals for the purposes of protecting the species, i.e. pandas on reserves, and their life spans have been nearly doubled in captivity. If animals are to be held captive for entertainment and money, they are not going to suffer.

OOC: Indeed I didn't see the new draft. It is far more reasonable.
And I do think they shouldn't be treated like horse shit which is why I said that proposals for regulation of zoos is necessary but you're approaching it from the wrong angle. Instead of this 'defining zoos as inhumane zoos' and then ban ""zoos"", you should do what Drew's proposal did and lay out clear regulations for all zoos to follow. That you have a much higher chance avoiding loopholes and unintended interpretations.

Regulating zoos in and of itself is a national issue, which seems to be the main reason Drew's proposal failed. With a resolution like this, instead of making specific mandates to achieve what I want, I'm just directly attacking the inhumane treatment I wish to avoid, which stays away from micromanagement, keeps the resolution shorter, and in fact should have less loopholes. Will loopholes be found, I'm sure they will and I will be very glad to patch them where they appear.
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Postby Ardiveds » Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:41 pm

Jedinsto wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:
OOC: Indeed I didn't see the new draft. It is far more reasonable.
And I do think they shouldn't be treated like horse shit which is why I said that proposals for regulation of zoos is necessary but you're approaching it from the wrong angle. Instead of this 'defining zoos as inhumane zoos' and then ban ""zoos"", you should do what Drew's proposal did and lay out clear regulations for all zoos to follow. That you have a much higher chance avoiding loopholes and unintended interpretations.

Regulating zoos in and of itself is a national issue, which seems to be the main reason Drew's proposal failed. With a resolution like this, instead of making specific mandates to achieve what I want, I'm just directly attacking the inhumane treatment I wish to avoid, which stays away from micromanagement, keeps the resolution shorter, and in fact should have less loopholes. Will loopholes be found, I'm sure they will and I will be very glad to patch them where they appear.

OOC: The very word humane is a subjective. Yes, it does have a dictionary definition but its exact meaning in the context of zoos doesn't. One can easily say that the very act of keeping an animal in a zoo, outside it's natural habitat, is inhumane. On what guidelines will the WA judge a particular zoo to be humane or inhumane? You gave the conditions shouldn't be worse than in their natural habitat. Animals often starve in their natural habitat so surely a starving animal is being treated humanely right?
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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:39 pm

Ardiveds wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:Regulating zoos in and of itself is a national issue, which seems to be the main reason Drew's proposal failed. With a resolution like this, instead of making specific mandates to achieve what I want, I'm just directly attacking the inhumane treatment I wish to avoid, which stays away from micromanagement, keeps the resolution shorter, and in fact should have less loopholes. Will loopholes be found, I'm sure they will and I will be very glad to patch them where they appear.

OOC: The very word humane is a subjective. Yes, it does have a dictionary definition but its exact meaning in the context of zoos doesn't. One can easily say that the very act of keeping an animal in a zoo, outside it's natural habitat, is inhumane. On what guidelines will the WA judge a particular zoo to be humane or inhumane? You gave the conditions shouldn't be worse than in their natural habitat. Animals often starve in their natural habitat so surely a starving animal is being treated humanely right?

THe language I used was "detrimental to their health" compared to in a natural habitat, not inhumane. I'll change this up a little bit to make more sense and be more clear of what it's actually doing.
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Postby Jedinsto » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:04 am

Not sure how much I will pursue this, but I will continue for now. Bump.
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:07 am

Don't.

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