[Scrapped] Ban on Overbooking

[Abbeyverne]

"The Abbeyvernian Delegation will unilaterally oppose this absurd legislation. That the WA frequently creates policy that limits national sovereignty in undue ways is abhorrent enough, now you will reach your corrupt hand even deeper, into private companies?! Ludicrous."
- Abbeyvernian World Assembly Ambassador, Friedhold Kuntz

[Philimbesi]

As has been stated over and over, this is hardly a matter for our national courts let alone an international court. As such there is no advise we can give other than abandoning this attempt at micromanagement of civil law.

Nigel S Youlkin
USP Ambassador to the WA

[Separatist Peoples]

If the contract is to provide carriage of a person on a ship from Dubris to Burdigala and the ship owners refuse to permit entrance because no cabin can be found for the traveller, surely there is a breach of contract to provide carriage.

"You certainly know more about contract law than I do, but is it not possible for a contract to explicitly allow the seller to rescind the product or service to one buyer if another buyer shows up claiming the same product or service? That could hardly leave the seller liable for breach of contract, as they were well within their contractual rights."

"No, that is still breach. One cannot contractually specify that breach is not breach. One can specify the details of breach, but if a party does not receive the goods for which they contracted, breach has occurred."

[Molopovia]

"The Abbeyvernian Delegation will unilaterally oppose this absurd legislation. That the WA frequently creates policy that limits national sovereignty in undue ways is abhorrent enough, now you will reach your corrupt hand even deeper, into private companies?! Ludicrous."
- Abbeyvernian World Assembly Ambassador, Friedhold Kuntz

"I would be concerned about your people's average income rates going down, because more of their money goes into spending for things they reserved for but they didn't get. Insignificant it may look, it still lies wrong on moral grounds, and it only gives more profit to your companies, so unless you want to tax them higher and drive them away to compensate for overselling, I think this bill is fine"

Broska Tarlishak - WA Delegation Ambassador

[Molopovia]

As has been stated over and over, this is hardly a matter for our national courts let alone an international court. As such there is no advise we can give other than abandoning this attempt at micromanagement of civil law.

Nigel S Youlkin
USP Ambassador to the WA

"Justification can come in the form of moral grounds and profiteering. Selling the same thing twice can still constitute as a violation of consumer's trust, I sure think there are many, many more important matters, but I do not think this particular one is too insignificant to be addressed as such."

-Broska Tarlishak
WA Delegation Ambassador

[Molopovia]

"Not every nation--not even my own, which prohibits the practice in question--treats overbooking as a criminal offense, so fines would likely not apply. As to the first two things listed, that would only be the case if every single person aggrieved by overbooking filed suit and had a sympathetic judge or jury, when a great many unscrupulous businesses rely--often correctly--on the assumption that most people do not have the resources, time, and/or interest to file a lawsuit, or will just accept a settlement for less than the value of the loss. With all that in mind, overbooking would still be quite a profitable activity, which is why normal breach of contract and other civil laws will not be enough, and why separate legislation is generally required. Which leads me back to my original point--I am not convinced such legislation needs to be done on the international level."

"That also leads back to one point: nations with inefficient legal systems. Now I know they wouldn't have the resources to enforce it, but as stated, those same weak legal systems can be covered with international legislation. How will they legislate the international law if their legal system is, well, inefficient? Maybe an option to send WA judges or try the business in a small division of the court, and be aware that so far I have not seen any legislation that prohibits the action of such.

Correct me if I'm wrong about that last part."

-Broska Tarlishak
WA Delegation Ambassador

[Barfleur]

"Not every nation--not even my own, which prohibits the practice in question--treats overbooking as a criminal offense, so fines would likely not apply. As to the first two things listed, that would only be the case if every single person aggrieved by overbooking filed suit and had a sympathetic judge or jury, when a great many unscrupulous businesses rely--often correctly--on the assumption that most people do not have the resources, time, and/or interest to file a lawsuit, or will just accept a settlement for less than the value of the loss. With all that in mind, overbooking would still be quite a profitable activity, which is why normal breach of contract and other civil laws will not be enough, and why separate legislation is generally required. Which leads me back to my original point--I am not convinced such legislation needs to be done on the international level."

"That also leads back to one point: nations with inefficient legal systems. Now I know they wouldn't have the resources to enforce it, but as stated, those same weak legal systems can be covered with international legislation. How will they legislate the international law if their legal system is, well, inefficient? Maybe an option to send WA judges or try the business in a small division of the court, and be aware that so far I have not seen any legislation that prohibits the action of such.

Correct me if I'm wrong about that last part."

-Broska Tarlishak
WA Delegation Ambassador

"Ambassador, if overbooking is to be treated as a breach of contract, then it can very well be the cause of a civil suit or other action, but it need not be a criminal offense. In other words, if you were not given the services you rightly paid for, you can sue the other party, but that other party will not necessarily be criminally liable. That is the case in almost all nations and legal systems, including ones which are objectively 'efficient'."

[Ardiveds]

"Not every nation--not even my own, which prohibits the practice in question--treats overbooking as a criminal offense, so fines would likely not apply. As to the first two things listed, that would only be the case if every single person aggrieved by overbooking filed suit and had a sympathetic judge or jury, when a great many unscrupulous businesses rely--often correctly--on the assumption that most people do not have the resources, time, and/or interest to file a lawsuit, or will just accept a settlement for less than the value of the loss. With all that in mind, overbooking would still be quite a profitable activity, which is why normal breach of contract and other civil laws will not be enough, and why separate legislation is generally required. Which leads me back to my original point--I am not convinced such legislation needs to be done on the international level."

"That also leads back to one point: nations with inefficient legal systems. Now I know they wouldn't have the resources to enforce it, but as stated, those same weak legal systems can be covered with international legislation. How will they legislate the international law if their legal system is, well, inefficient? Maybe an option to send WA judges or try the business in a small division of the court, and be aware that so far I have not seen any legislation that prohibits the action of such.

Correct me if I'm wrong about that last part."

-Broska Tarlishak
WA Delegation Ambassador

"Ambassador, frankly if there are nations with legal systems so inefficient that you want to send WA judges to tackle cases of overbooking, they probably have far bigger issues than overbooking which are more deserving of WA regulation. This is like writing a proposal to help people who have lost their arms, tie their shoes. Yes they probably do need help with shoes but that's probably not their biggest issue."

[Molopovia]

"That also leads back to one point: nations with inefficient legal systems. Now I know they wouldn't have the resources to enforce it, but as stated, those same weak legal systems can be covered with international legislation. How will they legislate the international law if their legal system is, well, inefficient? Maybe an option to send WA judges or try the business in a small division of the court, and be aware that so far I have not seen any legislation that prohibits the action of such.

Correct me if I'm wrong about that last part."

-Broska Tarlishak
WA Delegation Ambassador

"Ambassador, frankly if there are nations with legal systems so inefficient that you want to send WA judges to tackle cases of overbooking, they probably have far bigger issues than overbooking which are more deserving of WA regulation. This is like writing a proposal to help people who have lost their arms, tie their shoes. Yes they probably do need help with shoes but that's probably not their biggest issue."

"But how do we know if there are bigger issues? There's still a good plausibility that there are nations that simply have no problem other than ineffective/inefficient legal systems."
-Delegation

[Molopovia]

"That also leads back to one point: nations with inefficient legal systems. Now I know they wouldn't have the resources to enforce it, but as stated, those same weak legal systems can be covered with international legislation. How will they legislate the international law if their legal system is, well, inefficient? Maybe an option to send WA judges or try the business in a small division of the court, and be aware that so far I have not seen any legislation that prohibits the action of such.

Correct me if I'm wrong about that last part."

-Broska Tarlishak
WA Delegation Ambassador

"Ambassador, if overbooking is to be treated as a breach of contract, then it can very well be the cause of a civil suit or other action, but it need not be a criminal offense. In other words, if you were not given the services you rightly paid for, you can sue the other party, but that other party will not necessarily be criminally liable. That is the case in almost all nations and legal systems, including ones which are objectively 'efficient'."

"Now a criminal offense would normally constitute very large fines (not just monetarily, mind you) or imprisonment of some businessmen, maybe even business suspension and that's why I've avoided mentioning it. The only penalization placed in the proposal is either a monetary fine or an informative public announcement to all citizens regarding businesses that utilize overbooking, potentially dropping customers in their business and may force them to consider stopping the predatory practice. The latter is not explicitly stated but I am still figuring out how to put that in the proposal."

-Delegation

[Ardiveds]

"Ambassador, frankly if there are nations with legal systems so inefficient that you want to send WA judges to tackle cases of overbooking, they probably have far bigger issues than overbooking which are more deserving of WA regulation. This is like writing a proposal to help people who have lost their arms, tie their shoes. Yes they probably do need help with shoes but that's probably not their biggest issue."

"But how do we know if there are bigger issues? There's still a good plausibility that there are nations that simply have no problem other than ineffective/inefficient legal systems."
-Delegation

"Unless you're trying to say their legal systems are only inefficient in cases of overbooking, those inefficient legal systems themselves will create bigger issues."

[Abbeyverne]

"The Abbeyvernian Delegation will unilaterally oppose this absurd legislation. That the WA frequently creates policy that limits national sovereignty in undue ways is abhorrent enough, now you will reach your corrupt hand even deeper, into private companies?! Ludicrous."
- Abbeyvernian World Assembly Ambassador, Friedhold Kuntz

"I would be concerned about your people's average income rates going down, because more of their money goes into spending for things they reserved for but they didn't get. Insignificant it may look, it still lies wrong on moral grounds, and it only gives more profit to your companies, so unless you want to tax them higher and drive them away to compensate for overselling, I think this bill is fine"

Broska Tarlishak - WA Delegation Ambassador

"So to deal with the immoral practices of a few businesses, we must make them criminally liable... in international court? Obscene. Now a small restaurant could be dragged before a WA body because they made a mistake in accounting. There is nothing legally wrong with this practice, and no precedent to establish it as such. I can only wish for the death of this bill. No change or exemption will satisfy us. Thank you for your time."
- Abbeyvernian World Assembly Ambassador, Friedhold Kuntz

[Molopovia]

"I would be concerned about your people's average income rates going down, because more of their money goes into spending for things they reserved for but they didn't get. Insignificant it may look, it still lies wrong on moral grounds, and it only gives more profit to your companies, so unless you want to tax them higher and drive them away to compensate for overselling, I think this bill is fine"

Broska Tarlishak - WA Delegation Ambassador

"So to deal with the immoral practices of a few businesses, we must make them criminally liable... in international court? Obscene. Now a small restaurant could be dragged before a WA body because they made a mistake in accounting. There is nothing legally wrong with this practice, and no precedent to establish it as such. I can only wish for the death of this bill. No change or exemption will satisfy us. Thank you for your time."
- Abbeyvernian World Assembly Ambassador, Friedhold Kuntz

"The Molopovian Delegation wishes you good luck in your future endeavors, and respects your opinion."
-Ambassador Tarlishak

[Molopovia]

"But how do we know if there are bigger issues? There's still a good plausibility that there are nations that simply have no problem other than ineffective/inefficient legal systems."
-Delegation

"Unless you're trying to say their legal systems are only inefficient in cases of overbooking, those inefficient legal systems themselves will create bigger issues."

"No no, not just overselling, but in other corporate-related trials. Say, you know, multi-level marketing schemes. Businesses (especially large ones) can just simply lobby against the prosecution because they want to keep their profits flowing, and that's still in violation of the moral decency the World Assembly is supposed to uphold. Those inefficient legal systems can easily be coerced."