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Regarding Work Ethic: CEO vs Worker

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who is the harder worker?

The CEO
15
37%
The Worker
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63%
 
Total votes : 41

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Infected Mushroom
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Regarding Work Ethic: CEO vs Worker

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:52 pm

Please consider the following hypothetical:

The CEO of Basic Psych is a workaholic. Close to 24/7 they are at meetings, running things from the phone, planning, creating documents, coming up with and administering new projects. We are talking far far far in excess of the 9 to 5; there is burning of the midnight oil. However, the CEO loves his job and it is their life’s passion.

Now let’s pick an employee of Basic Psych. This Worker works from 9 to 5. Sometimes they are asked to work overtime. They absolutely loathe their job but as a matter of social convention and economic necessity, they work hard to keep the job and stay relevant. When the Worker is Off, they party, drink, and completely turn off from work. 5-6 days of the week though, it’s a living hell from 9 to 5-7. However, they are determined to not show any cracks in their performance.

Who is the harder worker? Who works harder?

Society looks at people like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Warren Buffet and go... hey they are in the office all the time, they are motivated, competitive... that’s a hard worker. Or are they just fortunate to have their passions align with their work? Meanwhile, the worker is often (unfairly?) seen as someone who just punches a clock while in actuality, they’ve possibly sacrificed close to their whole life.

The CEO or the Worker? Who works harder? How do you decide.

The Worker actually works harder because they make more sacrifices (in fact, they sacrifice the majority of their lives). The CEO, while I’m sure with the massive overtime and off the clock work does have sacrifice, is for the most part doing work that is in tune with their life’s actual passion.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Tsarus 2142 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:01 pm

The CEO is more passionate, and is motivated to work harder, yet his life is fulfilling.

The worker's sacrifice is significantly greater. While the CEO's occupation is literally his meaningful life, simultaneously making millions or billions, the worker is simply wasting 8 hours of his life for 5 days a week, only to partake in various activities which mmmm make this dull, monotonous, HELLISH life a bit enjoyable.

The worker's life is utterly humiliating.

I want to go off on a tangent about industrialism, but I will restrain myself.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:20 pm

Tsarus 2142 wrote:The CEO is more passionate, and is motivated to work harder, yet his life is fulfilling.

The worker's sacrifice is significantly greater. While the CEO's occupation is literally his meaningful life, simultaneously making millions or billions, the worker is simply wasting 8 hours of his life for 5 days a week, only to partake in various activities which mmmm make this dull, monotonous, HELLISH life a bit enjoyable.

The worker's life is utterly humiliating.

I want to go off on a tangent about industrialism, but I will restrain myself.


You don’t like industrialism?

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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:26 pm

Tsarus 2142 wrote:The CEO is more passionate, and is motivated to work harder, yet his life is fulfilling.

The worker's sacrifice is significantly greater. While the CEO's occupation is literally his meaningful life, simultaneously making millions or billions, the worker is simply wasting 8 hours of his life for 5 days a week, only to partake in various activities which mmmm make this dull, monotonous, HELLISH life a bit enjoyable.

The worker's life is utterly humiliating.

I want to go off on a tangent about industrialism, but I will restrain myself.

The CEO is lazier, but tries to justify their exploitation of the masses by lying to the public and sometimes themselves about how they earned it through hard work. I'm gonna call their bluff and say they're delusional if they think they're that dedicated.


The worker, on the other hand, is pretty accurate to what you said.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:31 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Tsarus 2142 wrote:The CEO is more passionate, and is motivated to work harder, yet his life is fulfilling.

The worker's sacrifice is significantly greater. While the CEO's occupation is literally his meaningful life, simultaneously making millions or billions, the worker is simply wasting 8 hours of his life for 5 days a week, only to partake in various activities which mmmm make this dull, monotonous, HELLISH life a bit enjoyable.

The worker's life is utterly humiliating.

I want to go off on a tangent about industrialism, but I will restrain myself.

The CEO is lazier, but tries to justify their exploitation of the masses by lying to the public and sometimes themselves about how they earned it through hard work. I'm gonna call their bluff and say they're delusional if they think they're that dedicated.


The worker, on the other hand, is pretty accurate to what you said.


CEO's are many things but lazy isn't one of them, that's a claim entirely separate from reality and really only exists in the minds of middle class Twitter socialists. The average CEO works for nearly 20 more hours every week than the average worker.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:40 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:The CEO is lazier, but tries to justify their exploitation of the masses by lying to the public and sometimes themselves about how they earned it through hard work. I'm gonna call their bluff and say they're delusional if they think they're that dedicated.


The worker, on the other hand, is pretty accurate to what you said.


CEO's are many things but lazy isn't one of them, that's a claim entirely separate from reality and really only exists in the minds of middle class Twitter socialists. The average CEO works for nearly 20 more hours every week than the average worker.


But what about sacrifice?

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:42 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
CEO's are many things but lazy isn't one of them, that's a claim entirely separate from reality and really only exists in the minds of middle class Twitter socialists. The average CEO works for nearly 20 more hours every week than the average worker.


But what about sacrifice?


Yeah the average worker makes a lot more of those. There's no way to get around that in industrial society really, life sucks for the majority of people.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:43 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
But what about sacrifice?


Yeah the average worker makes a lot more of those. There's no way to get around that in industrial society really, life sucks for the majority of people.


Is there an alternative?

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Postby Nevertopia » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:49 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Please consider the following hypothetical:

The CEO of Basic Psych is a workaholic. Close to 24/7 they are at meetings, running things from the phone, planning, creating documents, coming up with and administering new projects. We are talking far far far in excess of the 9 to 5; there is burning of the midnight oil. However, the CEO loves his job and it is their life’s passion.

Now let’s pick an employee of Basic Psych. This Worker works from 9 to 5. Sometimes they are asked to work overtime. They absolutely loathe their job but as a matter of social convention and economic necessity, they work hard to keep the job and stay relevant. When the Worker is Off, they party, drink, and completely turn off from work. 5-6 days of the week though, it’s a living hell from 9 to 5-7. However, they are determined to not show any cracks in their performance.

Who is the harder worker? Who works harder?

Society looks at people like Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Warren Buffet and go... hey they are in the office all the time, they are motivated, competitive... that’s a hard worker. Or are they just fortunate to have their passions align with their work? Meanwhile, the worker is often (unfairly?) seen as someone who just punches a clock while in actuality, they’ve possibly sacrificed close to their whole life.

The CEO or the Worker? Who works harder? How do you decide.

The Worker actually works harder because they make more sacrifices (in fact, they sacrifice the majority of their lives). The CEO, while I’m sure with the massive overtime and off the clock work does have sacrifice, is for the most part doing work that is in tune with their life’s actual passion.


The worker works harder, the CEO has chosen work as their lifestyle and doesnt care about sacrificing anything at the altar of their job since life is work. While a worker is working for life.
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Postby Sahuarita » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:51 pm

Tsarus 2142 wrote:The worker's sacrifice is significantly greater. While the CEO's occupation is literally his meaningful life, simultaneously making millions or billions.

You do have to remember that not every CEO is making $10 million dollars a year. Many startup CEO’s don’t make much money, especially the lesser experienced ones. Some entrepreneurs that are starting up owning their companies make almost no money, because they put much of it into their company. While I do think that workers should be paid more, especially at larger companies, it is important to remember that not every CEO is super rich.
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Postby Alcala-Cordel » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:01 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:The CEO is lazier, but tries to justify their exploitation of the masses by lying to the public and sometimes themselves about how they earned it through hard work. I'm gonna call their bluff and say they're delusional if they think they're that dedicated.


The worker, on the other hand, is pretty accurate to what you said.


CEO's are many things but lazy isn't one of them, that's a claim entirely separate from reality and really only exists in the minds of middle class Twitter socialists. The average CEO works for nearly 20 more hours every week than the average worker.

source?
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:09 pm

Thus far in the poll, it doesn’t look like the American Dream is doing very well in 2021

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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:11 pm

Alcala-Cordel wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
CEO's are many things but lazy isn't one of them, that's a claim entirely separate from reality and really only exists in the minds of middle class Twitter socialists. The average CEO works for nearly 20 more hours every week than the average worker.

source?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/harvard ... l-day.html

The study, launched in 2006 by Harvard professors Michael Porter and Nitin Nohria, tracked how 27 CEOs (only two women and 25 men) of companies with an average annual revenue of $13.1 billion spent their days. Data was collected from the CEOs in 15 minutes increments, 24 hours a day, seven days a week for three months. Overall, the study collected 60,000 CEO hours.

It reveals, on average, the leaders worked 9.7 hours per weekday, which totals just 48.5 hours per workweek. They also worked 79 percent of weekend days at an average of 3.9 hours daily, and 70 percent of vacation days with an average of 2.4 hours on those days. Altogether, the study found that CEOs worked an average of 62.5 hours a week.

(The average American works 44 hours per week, or 8.8 hours per day, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, with nearly a third reportedly working on the weekend.)
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:27 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:source?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/harvard ... l-day.html

The study, launched in 2006 by Harvard professors Michael Porter and Nitin Nohria, tracked how 27 CEOs (only two women and 25 men) of companies with an average annual revenue of $13.1 billion spent their days. Data was collected from the CEOs in 15 minutes increments, 24 hours a day, seven days a week for three months. Overall, the study collected 60,000 CEO hours.

It reveals, on average, the leaders worked 9.7 hours per weekday, which totals just 48.5 hours per workweek. They also worked 79 percent of weekend days at an average of 3.9 hours daily, and 70 percent of vacation days with an average of 2.4 hours on those days. Altogether, the study found that CEOs worked an average of 62.5 hours a week.

(The average American works 44 hours per week, or 8.8 hours per day, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, with nearly a third reportedly working on the weekend.)


I'm always impressed at how well informed some individual posters are and how they are such good researchers.

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Postby Ifreann » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:47 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:


I'm always impressed at how well informed some individual posters are and how they are such good researchers.

It's bizarre that you seem to have no idea how to look something up online.
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Postby Kubra » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:47 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:source?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/20/harvard ... l-day.html

The study, launched in 2006 by Harvard professors Michael Porter and Nitin Nohria, tracked how 27 CEOs (only two women and 25 men) of companies with an average annual revenue of $13.1 billion spent their days. Data was collected from the CEOs in 15 minutes increments, 24 hours a day, seven days a week for three months. Overall, the study collected 60,000 CEO hours.

It reveals, on average, the leaders worked 9.7 hours per weekday, which totals just 48.5 hours per workweek. They also worked 79 percent of weekend days at an average of 3.9 hours daily, and 70 percent of vacation days with an average of 2.4 hours on those days. Altogether, the study found that CEOs worked an average of 62.5 hours a week.

(The average American works 44 hours per week, or 8.8 hours per day, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, with nearly a third reportedly working on the weekend.)
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Postby Vorausen » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:58 am

Philosophy questions? I like that!

My thoughts: Well at first one may assume that the CEO works harder because he seems that he puts more effort into his job. However, that is because he is a workaholic and must have at least some sort of satisfaction and enjoyment (maybe some pleasure) from working.

The Employee on the other hand does not work because he wants to, it is rather a necessity to survive and make ends meet. You may think "that is a weak work ethic" and while you be right he was slacking, he works enough to not have a bad performance.

The whole concept of a job is a couple of steps up from slavery (or a less harsh word "volunteer work"), with there being basic protection for workers and basic pay. Of course, if you could get all your needs and wants from not working, would you quit your job?

As I said, I bet that employee does not see working at an office from 9-5 as his passion, it is instead a job, not a career. Maybe he wants to be an artist, a dancer, a musician, whatever. The job is restricting him from fully achieving his dreams, and is limiting his potential. Yet he still works there and doesn't slack around.

A closer look and the average worker is the real hero of this scenario. More so than the CEO (since he probably saw being CEO as his career and passion).

( I know I sound kind of socialist, that is because I am, or well at least a democratic socialist one. I ee the conventional 9-5 schedule at the office as an old fashioned part of our society that must be fixed.)

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Postby Grinning Dragon » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 am

You are comparing apples to oranges here. They both work hard.
Comparing the type of work load vs another isn't comparable as each require different skill sets.
The 9 to 5 fellow most likely wouldn't be able to do the CEO's job and the CEO most likely wouldn't be able to the 9 to 5 job.
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:22 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:You are comparing apples to oranges here. They both work hard.
Comparing the type of work load vs another isn't comparable as each require different skill sets.
The 9 to 5 fellow most likely wouldn't be able to do the CEO's job and the CEO most likely wouldn't be able to the 9 to 5 job.

That’s even more evident when it’s blue collar employee and the CEO. The CEO would most definitely not being doing the blue collar job and the blue collar guy would most definitely not be able to run a multi billion dollar company
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Postby Jetan » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:34 pm

You've got the premise wrong. Work ethic is not only about who works hardest or more in a vacuum but about the effort put in and reasons for it. Based on the OP it seems likely the CEO works harder than the worker but it's impossible to say which has stronger work ethic. At first glance it would seem the worker does because he doesn't have the benefit of enjoyment like the CEO does, but without knowing how the CEO would act in the worker's situation it's impossible to compare the two.
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:26 pm

Grinning Dragon wrote:You are comparing apples to oranges here. They both work hard.
Comparing the type of work load vs another isn't comparable as each require different skill sets.
The 9 to 5 fellow most likely wouldn't be able to do the CEO's job and the CEO most likely wouldn't be able to the 9 to 5 job.


But why do they have to switch? Why do we have to at least consider how they’d respond if switched?

Shouldn’t we just look at the actual work done in the actual lives being led?

I’d never label the worker as LESS hardworking even if it can be 100 percent established that if he were in the CEO’s job he’d work less hours than the current CEO. Because it’s a counterfactual and in my view noy an analysis of how much is actually being done in real time.

And a scenario where the CEO is thrown in as a blue collar work... does that need to be considered?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Senkaku » Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:47 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Alcala-Cordel wrote:The CEO is lazier, but tries to justify their exploitation of the masses by lying to the public and sometimes themselves about how they earned it through hard work. I'm gonna call their bluff and say they're delusional if they think they're that dedicated.


The worker, on the other hand, is pretty accurate to what you said.


CEO's are many things but lazy isn't one of them, that's a claim entirely separate from reality and really only exists in the minds of middle class Twitter socialists. The average CEO works for nearly 20 more hours every week than the average worker.

It’s a performance of workaholism to use the meritocratic ideal of “hard work” to legitimize their position in the hierarchy (a performance which, incidentally, they only have the resources and support to successfully pull off because they’re at the top). See, peons, I work much longer hours than you, so I deserve this! I bet if you had my job you wouldn’t even like having to work so hard! Never mind that I have a personal chef and trainer and a maid and a nanny and a driver and a personal shopper and top-rate medical care to make sure I can spend this much time in the office without having it affect my quality of life in any meaningful way...
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:00 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
CEO's are many things but lazy isn't one of them, that's a claim entirely separate from reality and really only exists in the minds of middle class Twitter socialists. The average CEO works for nearly 20 more hours every week than the average worker.

It’s a performance of workaholism to use the meritocratic ideal of “hard work” to legitimize their position in the hierarchy (a performance which, incidentally, they only have the resources and support to successfully pull off because they’re at the top). See, peons, I work much longer hours than you, so I deserve this! I bet if you had my job you wouldn’t even like having to work so hard! Never mind that I have a personal chef and trainer and a maid and a nanny and a driver and a personal shopper and top-rate medical care to make sure I can spend this much time in the office without having it affect my quality of life in any meaningful way...


This sort of thing makes me angry. I don’t know why but it does. :(

Why are many CEOs like this?
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Saiwania » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:09 pm

Of course the CEO is going to get paid more if their work/talents are more valuable than someone lower ranked. People get paid what they're worth or how much people are willing to pay them, not on how many hours they work or how much physical labor they have to do.

In the end, the employer they work for doesn't give a damn about them if they're a nobody and the company is above a certain size in terms of scale. They're easily replaceable up until they prove to be indispensible to the business or workplace they're at. To get better pay, someone has to have leverage or influence, if not skills/talents that're considered valuable to the wider economy.
Last edited by Saiwania on Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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