Why Utah is making men pay women's pregnancy costs

[Stellar Colonies]

Americans pay to give birth to a child? Seriously?

For a vagina birth, anywhere between $5,000 and $11,000

Also, some hospitals tack on an extra charge for the parents to hold your baby after it’s born

...I did not know about that, what the hell?

[Ethel mermania]

For a vagina birth, anywhere between $5,000 and $11,000

Also, some hospitals tack on an extra charge for the parents to hold your baby after it’s born

I mean...you could have just said a natural birth instead of a vagina birth, we'd have known what you meant.

Some of us like vaginas.

More importantly in this country viginal hospital births are not considered natural births. A natural birth in the states means no pain meds and in a non hospital setting

[Luminesa]

Americans pay to give birth to a child? Seriously?

For a vagina birth, anywhere between $5,000 and $11,000

Also, some hospitals tack on an extra charge for the parents to hold your baby after it’s born

Now that...that is extortion.

[Xelsis]

Americans pay to give birth to a child? Seriously?

Depends on how you want to give birth, a home birth with family is free of charge.

If the proposal is paying for it with taxpayer funds (it is never 'free' care outside a pro bono hospital, it is just the money coming from a different place), the question would be why people who are not interested in having children should be expected to shoulder the costs because someone else decided to.

Americans pay to give birth to a child in either case, it is just a question of whether the Americans paying for it are the ones who chose to have the child, or others with no involvement whatsoever.

[The New California Republic]

Americans pay to give birth to a child? Seriously?

Depends on how you want to give birth, a home birth with family is free of charge.

But a lot of women don't want to do that, and rightly so, as without an experienced medical professional with them then the risk in case of complications is much higher. That and pain relief would be an issue.

[Xelsis]

Depends on how you want to give birth, a home birth with family is free of charge.

But a lot of women don't want to do that, and rightly so, as without an experienced medical professional with them then the risk in case of complications is much higher. That and pain relief would be an issue.

Of course, and that's a perfectly reasonable decision to make. Like with a whole lot of things, there's usually a way to do something without paying or at low cost, with the option of a better experience if one wishes to pay for it.

[The New California Republic]

But a lot of women don't want to do that, and rightly so, as without an experienced medical professional with them then the risk in case of complications is much higher. That and pain relief would be an issue.

Of course, and that's a perfectly reasonable decision to make. Like with a whole lot of things, there's usually a way to do something without paying or at low cost, with the option of a better experience if one wishes to pay for it.

In the case of UHC it wouldn't need to be an issue.

[Xelsis]

Of course, and that's a perfectly reasonable decision to make. Like with a whole lot of things, there's usually a way to do something without paying or at low cost, with the option of a better experience if one wishes to pay for it.

In the case of UHC it wouldn't need to be an issue.

Of course it would be, it would just shift the burden of who is paying the cost, as I said above. You have the choice between either the cost being covered by the parents who chose to have the child, or the cost being put on the shoulders of people who had no input in that decision at all.

[The New California Republic]

In the case of UHC it wouldn't need to be an issue.

Of course it would be, it would just shift the burden of who is paying the cost, as I said above.

It wouldn't need to be an issue for the women themselves, needing to give birth at home instead of the hospital because they can't afford it.

[Xelsis]

Of course it would be, it would just shift the burden of who is paying the cost, as I said above.

It wouldn't need to be an issue for the women themselves, needing to give birth at home instead of the hospital because they can't afford it.

You can give birth at a hospital regardless of ability to pay, in the U.S. they are required to give care.

[Miku the Based]

Americans pay to give birth to a child in either case, it is just a question of whether the Americans paying for it are the ones who chose to have the child, or others with no involvement whatsoever.

America lives in a society. If it wishes to exist it must uphold the collectivist idea of to each according to need. Thus society as a collecive whole raise and child rear the next generation of society. Guess what, these people are American's neighbors and it is part of their livelihood as much their own to fall into the individualist trap of "screw you I have mine" mentality dooms them to life of crime, selfishness, spite, murder and so on. Conversely American's pay for the death of a child just as well.

gamers rise up

[The New California Republic]

It wouldn't need to be an issue for the women themselves, needing to give birth at home instead of the hospital because they can't afford it.

You can give birth at a hospital regardless of ability to pay, in the U.S. they are required to give care.

And as far as the US is concerned in terms of initial access yes, that's fine, but under EMTALA they are still liable for costs as a result of their care under civil law, are they not?

[Xelsis]

Americans pay to give birth to a child in either case, it is just a question of whether the Americans paying for it are the ones who chose to have the child, or others with no involvement whatsoever.

America lives in a society. If it wishes to exist it must uphold the collectivist idea of to each according to need. Thus society as a collecive whole raise and child rear the next generation of society. Guess what, these people are American's neighbors and it is part of their livelihood as much their own to fall into the individualist trap of "screw you I have mine" mentality dooms them to life of crime, selfishness, spite, murder and so on. Conversely American's pay for the death of a child just as well.

gamers rise up

"If you aren't forced to pay for someone's prenatal care then their children will murder you" is certainly a very hot take.

Probably worth noting that no such payments were made for the majority of the nation's history and we did not, in fact, fall immediately into a Hobbesian apocalypse.

[Xelsis]

You can give birth at a hospital regardless of ability to pay, in the U.S. they are required to give care.

And as far as the US is concerned in terms of initial access yes, that's fine, but under EMTALA they are still liable for costs as a result of their care under civil law, are they not?

Correct, or at least that is my understanding, you cannot be denied the birth or any accompanying care, but the bills can still come after.

[The New California Republic]

And as far as the US is concerned in terms of initial access yes, that's fine, but under EMTALA they are still liable for costs as a result of their care under civil law, are they not?

Correct, or at least that is my understanding, you cannot be denied the birth or any accompanying care, but the bills can still come after.

And that's the problem: a pregnant woman who is poor may not want that large debt and thus not want to go to the hospital. It acts as a deterrent to seeking care.

[Xelsis]

Correct, or at least that is my understanding, you cannot be denied the birth or any accompanying care, but the bills can still come after.

And that's the problem: a pregnant woman who is poor may not want that large debt and thus not want to go to the hospital. It acts as a deterrent to seeking care.

Fair enough, I do not disagree. Weighing costs and risks is a part of life, fast-forward a few years and one could be musing over whether or not, for example, they ought to spend the money to buy a car with a better safety rating for the kids, or stick with their old clunker, or whether to get a fancy expensive home security system or just stick with locking the door.

[Ethel mermania]

Correct, or at least that is my understanding, you cannot be denied the birth or any accompanying care, but the bills can still come after.

And that's the problem: a pregnant woman who is poor may not want that large debt and thus not want to go to the hospital. It acts as a deterrent to seeking care.

Which if the father has to pay half removes a substantial piece of that deterant, hence the point of this bill.

[Xelsis]

And that's the problem: a pregnant woman who is poor may not want that large debt and thus not want to go to the hospital. It acts as a deterrent to seeking care.

Which if the father has to pay half removes a substantial piece of that deterant, hence the point of this bill.

I wholly agree on a practical matter and in a vacuum, my issue lies mainly with the skewed nature of a system that declares that the father has absolutely no parental rights or say in regards to the child, but somehow simultaneously bears financial responsibility for them.

"100% a woman's choice, 100% a woman's financial responsibility" is logically consistent, "100% a woman's choice, 50% the man's financial responsibility" is not.

[Neu California]

Just a reminder that medical bills cause or are a major contributing factor to 2/3s of bankruptcies in the US

[Psycho Peoples]

Don’t move to Utah. Got it!

[Saiwania]

Don’t move to Utah. Got it!

It might be worthwhile anyways to be honest. Because Salt Lake City is said to have perfect weather for a majority of the year and in addition, has one of the best economies in the nation in terms of growth whilst still having decently affordable housing. Utah in general is doing so well that other states are envious of it.

If you want to launch a career after starting over from scratch (leaving your old life behind) or want to become a city slicker but aren't already because you're from the suburbs or somewhere else not as developed, Salt Lake City or surrounding locales just might be your chance. It regularly has below 3% unemployment or less. All of the numbers are looking good for the place. Its the perfect place for a lot of people.

Men might have to make sure never to get any women pregnant because of this law but honestly, who cares about ever getting laid- if it is the case that you never do anyways? It is increasingly common for people to not have much to do with other people because of pandemic and the state of technology. Building wealth or security is far more important.

[Dawhia]

If you don't want a child, don't screw up and make one. Contraceptives exist, yet we have people spawning 10 children and wondering why they're poor. Then they say they deserve money from the state for their screw up. Like, hey dude you ruined your own life, and your 10 children's lives. Deal with your problems. A father running out on the costs is scummy, but you also can't force anyone to spend their money on something they don't want to.

[Neu California]

If you don't want a child, don't screw up and make one. Contraceptives exist, yet we have people spawning 10 children and wondering why they're poor. Then they say they deserve money from the state for their screw up. Like, hey dude you ruined your own life, and your 10 children's lives. Deal with your problems. A father running out on the costs is scummy, but you also can't force anyone to spend their money on something they don't want to.

I can think of many cases where the bolded simply isn't true (or at least where the alternative is usually incarceration): taxes, car insurance, alimony, child support, health insurance (with the ACA), and I'm sure there are others that I can't think of at the moment. This is just another example on the list.

Also, serious question how many women are giving birth to ten kids period?

[Dawhia]

If you don't want a child, don't screw up and make one. Contraceptives exist, yet we have people spawning 10 children and wondering why they're poor. Then they say they deserve money from the state for their screw up. Like, hey dude you ruined your own life, and your 10 children's lives. Deal with your problems. A father running out on the costs is scummy, but you also can't force anyone to spend their money on something they don't want to.

I can think of many cases where the bolded simply isn't true (or at least where the alternative is usually incarceration): taxes, car insurance, alimony, child support, health insurance (with the ACA), and I'm sure there are others that I can't think of at the moment. This is just another example on the list.

Also, serious question how many women are giving birth to ten kids period?

When you live in a downtrodden trash filled area like I do, those child spawnpoints are everywhere. And sure the alt is incarceration for some things, but there are people out there that just don't care and will hold their money anyway.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

I’m in favour of paper abortions, and I’m skeptical of this measure.

I believe that a woman should not be obligated to give birth and raise a child if she does not so desire, even if she made some mistake that results in conception. This is why I am supportive of things like abortions and no-questions-asked baby drop-offs at orphanages.

I similarly believe that men should enjoy that same right and privilege. If a man does not wish to raise a child or contribute to raising one, then he should not have to.

This is a basic gender equity issue. If women have all the power over their own pregnancies - and I contend that they should, because it’s their own body, etc. - then why should they not also bear its full expense?

At the very least, if a woman demands that the man pay half the costs of her pregnancy, then that should be conditional on the woman agreeing to fully equal joint custody of the child.

---

My ultimate position is that expressed by Odreria et al., that the State should bear the medical costs of pregnancy. But since universal healthcare is not on the table and the choice is between forcing biological fathers to pay half the costs or not forcing them to do that, I think the latter is more sensible.