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Presidents Tournament

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who was the better President?

Abraham Lincoln
6
100%
Herbert Hoover
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 6

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Hopal
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Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Presidents Tournament

Postby Hopal » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:31 pm

This is about an idea I have about choosing the best President in United States history. So basically this is a tournament where you vote for which president you think was the better president out of a matchup of two presidents. The matchups are chosen with the most recent president and the earliest president and then down the list in that order (example: Biden and Washington, then Trump and Adams, and so and so forth). Then the President that wins one matchup will move on to the next round and face another winner from another bracket until there is only one President left which Nationstates votes as the best President. I'm not sure if this belongs here or in Forum 7, if it does belong in Forum 7 hopefully it will be moved by a mod.

First Round

George Washington-20-WINNER
Andrew Johnson-0

John Adams-22-WINNER
Donald Trump-9

Thomas Jefferson-15-WINNER
Barack Obama-12

James Madison-7-WINNER
George W. Bush-2

James Monroe-3
Bill Clinton-6-WINNER

John Quincy Adams-8-WINNER
George H.W. Bush-1

Andrew Jackson-6
Ronald Reagan-13-WINNER

Martin Van Buren-3
Jimmy Carter-13-WINNER

William Henry Harrison-7-WINNER
Gerald Ford-4

John Tyler-6-WINNER
Richard Nixon-4

James Polk-6-WINNER
Lyndon Johnson-4

Zachary Taylor-0
John F. Kennedy-8-WINNER

Millard Fillmore-0
Dwight Eisenhower-5-WINNER

Franklin Pierce-1
Harry Truman-9-WINNER

James Buchanan-0
Franklin Roosevelt-8-WINNER

Abraham Lincoln
Herbert Hoover

Ulysses S. Grant
Calvin Coolidge

Rutherford Hayes
Warren Harding

James Garfield
Woodrow Wilson

Chester Arthur
William Howard Taft

Grover Cleveland
Theodore Roosevelt

Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley

Second Round

George Washington
John Adams

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison

Bill Clinton
John Quincy Adams

Ronald Reagan
Jimmy Carter

William Henry Harrison
John Tyler

James K. Polk
John F. Kennedy

Dwight D. Eisenhower
Harry S. Truman

Franklin D. Roosevelt
Last edited by Hopal on Wed May 12, 2021 5:57 pm, edited 43 times in total.
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Trenaka
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Postby Trenaka » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:33 pm

First one’s easy. Washington.
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:53 pm

I love US history and presidential trivia, so...
*Cracks knuckles*

George Washington
Joe Biden
No contest.

John Adams
Donald Trump
Father of the Navy or of the Space Force? OK, this one is legit a good matchup.

Thomas Jefferson
Barack Obama
I know what TJ did, but the Declaration of Independence. The swivel chair. The swivel chair. Obama hasn't invented anything like the swivel chair.

James Madison
George W. Bush

James Monroe
Bill Clinton

John Quincy Adams
George H.W. Bush
One of these guys really didn't like broccoli, and the other swam naked in the Potomac. The choice is obvious.

Andrew Jackson
Ronald Reagan
Sure.

Martin Van Buren
Jimmy Carter
Meh.

William Henry Harrison
Gerald Ford
I have to go with Harrison. I have to.

John Tyler
Richard Nixon
This one's lowkey a lose-lose, but...Tyler, I guess.

James Polk
Lyndon Johnson
Polk is underrated.

Zachary Taylor
John F. Kennedy
Zachary Taylor for da wiiiiiiiin. (Long story.)

Millard Fillmore
Dwight Eisenhower
He may have lowered the price of the postage stamp, but he does not beat out Ike.

Franklin Pierce
Harry Truman
Truman, I guess, though Pierce has the best hair. But Harry's ghost will give me hell if I don't select him.

James Buchanan
Franklin Roosevelt
Pretty much everyone's better than Buchanan. And, well, Roosevelt led during the Depression and most of WWII, and the US hasn't fallen completely apart yet, so.

Abraham Lincoln
Herbert Hoover
Hoover gets a very bad rap, but he wasn't listening to his advisors...look, he's not the sole cause of the Great Depression, ok?

Ulysses S. Grant
Calvin Coolidge
Crap, both of these guys have merits. And drawbacks.

Rutherford Hayes
Warren Harding
Yus.

James Garfield
Woodrow Wilson
Again, no contest. Garfield was a total Chad who did not deserve to be assassinated, and Wilson was ew.

Chester Arthur
William Howard Taft
Did you know Taft became a Supreme Court judge after he was POTUS? #Themoreyouknow

Grover Cleveland
Theodore Roosevelt
How can I not pick Teddy? He's a Chad.

Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley
McKinley, because he was assassinated and everyone still forgets him.


I notice Andrew Johnson has been omitted, which is just as well. He wasn't a very good prez.
Last edited by Western Fardelshufflestein on Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hopal
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Postby Hopal » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:13 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:I love US history and presidential trivia, so...
*Cracks knuckles*

George Washington
Joe Biden
No contest.

John Adams
Donald Trump
Father of the Navy or of the Space Force? OK, this one is legit a good matchup.

Thomas Jefferson
Barack Obama
I know what TJ did, but the Declaration of Independence. The swivel chair. The swivel chair. Obama hasn't invented anything like the swivel chair.

James Madison
George W. Bush

James Monroe
Bill Clinton

John Quincy Adams
George H.W. Bush
One of these guys really didn't like broccoli, and the other swam naked in the Potomac. The choice is obvious.

Andrew Jackson
Ronald Reagan
Sure.

Martin Van Buren
Jimmy Carter
Meh.

William Henry Harrison
Gerald Ford
I have to go with Harrison. I have to.

John Tyler
Richard Nixon
This one's lowkey a lose-lose, but...Tyler, I guess.

James Polk
Lyndon Johnson
Polk is underrated.

Zachary Taylor
John F. Kennedy
Zachary Taylor for da wiiiiiiiin. (Long story.)

Millard Fillmore
Dwight Eisenhower
He may have lowered the price of the postage stamp, but he does not beat out Ike.

Franklin Pierce
Harry Truman
Truman, I guess, though Pierce has the best hair. But Harry's ghost will give me hell if I don't select him.

James Buchanan
Franklin Roosevelt
Pretty much everyone's better than Buchanan. And, well, Roosevelt led during the Depression and most of WWII, and the US hasn't fallen completely apart yet, so.

Abraham Lincoln
Herbert Hoover
Hoover gets a very bad rap, but he wasn't listening to his advisors...look, he's not the sole cause of the Great Depression, ok?

Ulysses S. Grant
Calvin Coolidge
Crap, both of these guys have merits. And drawbacks.

Rutherford Hayes
Warren Harding
Yus.

James Garfield
Woodrow Wilson
Again, no contest. Garfield was a total Chad who did not deserve to be assassinated, and Wilson was ew.

Chester Arthur
William Howard Taft
Did you know Taft became a Supreme Court judge after he was POTUS? #Themoreyouknow

Grover Cleveland
Theodore Roosevelt
How can I not pick Teddy? He's a Chad.

Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley
McKinley, because he was assassinated and everyone still forgets him.


I notice Andrew Johnson has been omitted, which is just as well. He wasn't a very good prez.

The omission of Andrew Johnson was a geniune mistake, but it ended up well because it was an even number without him, I don't think anyone would have voted for him anyway, and I think we might be better off pretending Lincoln wasn't assassinated. I'm interested in the story behind Zachary Taylor, the war hero who died as president.
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:14 pm

Hopal wrote:
Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:I love US history and presidential trivia, so...
*Cracks knuckles*

George Washington
Joe Biden
No contest.

John Adams
Donald Trump
Father of the Navy or of the Space Force? OK, this one is legit a good matchup.

Thomas Jefferson
Barack Obama
I know what TJ did, but the Declaration of Independence. The swivel chair. The swivel chair. Obama hasn't invented anything like the swivel chair.

James Madison
George W. Bush

James Monroe
Bill Clinton

John Quincy Adams
George H.W. Bush
One of these guys really didn't like broccoli, and the other swam naked in the Potomac. The choice is obvious.

Andrew Jackson
Ronald Reagan
Sure.

Martin Van Buren
Jimmy Carter
Meh.

William Henry Harrison
Gerald Ford
I have to go with Harrison. I have to.

John Tyler
Richard Nixon
This one's lowkey a lose-lose, but...Tyler, I guess.

James Polk
Lyndon Johnson
Polk is underrated.

Zachary Taylor
John F. Kennedy
Zachary Taylor for da wiiiiiiiin. (Long story.)

Millard Fillmore
Dwight Eisenhower
He may have lowered the price of the postage stamp, but he does not beat out Ike.

Franklin Pierce
Harry Truman
Truman, I guess, though Pierce has the best hair. But Harry's ghost will give me hell if I don't select him.

James Buchanan
Franklin Roosevelt
Pretty much everyone's better than Buchanan. And, well, Roosevelt led during the Depression and most of WWII, and the US hasn't fallen completely apart yet, so.

Abraham Lincoln
Herbert Hoover
Hoover gets a very bad rap, but he wasn't listening to his advisors...look, he's not the sole cause of the Great Depression, ok?

Ulysses S. Grant
Calvin Coolidge
Crap, both of these guys have merits. And drawbacks.

Rutherford Hayes
Warren Harding
Yus.

James Garfield
Woodrow Wilson
Again, no contest. Garfield was a total Chad who did not deserve to be assassinated, and Wilson was ew.

Chester Arthur
William Howard Taft
Did you know Taft became a Supreme Court judge after he was POTUS? #Themoreyouknow

Grover Cleveland
Theodore Roosevelt
How can I not pick Teddy? He's a Chad.

Benjamin Harrison
William McKinley
McKinley, because he was assassinated and everyone still forgets him.


I notice Andrew Johnson has been omitted, which is just as well. He wasn't a very good prez.

The omission of Andrew Johnson was a geniune mistake, but it ended up well because it was an even number without him, I don't think anyone would have voted for him anyway, and I think we might be better off pretending Lincoln wasn't assassinated. I'm interested in the story behind Zachary Taylor, the war hero who died as president.

Cleveland, this is all your fault.
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Hopal
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Postby Hopal » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:17 pm

Western Fardelshufflestein wrote:
Hopal wrote:The omission of Andrew Johnson was a geniune mistake, but it ended up well because it was an even number without him, I don't think anyone would have voted for him anyway, and I think we might be better off pretending Lincoln wasn't assassinated. I'm interested in the story behind Zachary Taylor, the war hero who died as president.

Cleveland, this is all your fault.

Why did he have to run for a second non-consecutive term?
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Volodiograd
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Postby Volodiograd » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:42 pm

I don't feel like this is fair to put Biden as he's been president for a few months only. Moreover, he's currently the president, it's very hard to have a clear view on his policies and decisions (same for Trump, but at least he finished his term). And it would have made some room for Johnson.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:55 pm

I’m going to go with Joe Biden because George Washington owned slaves and was apparently okay with some things in the US Constitution that wouldn’t be okay today.

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Hopal
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Postby Hopal » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:56 pm

Volodiograd wrote:I don't feel like this is fair to put Biden as he's been president for a few months only. Moreover, he's currently the president, it's very hard to have a clear view on his policies and decisions (same for Trump, but at least he finished his term). And it would have made some room for Johnson.

I thought about not putting in the more recent presidents but ultimately decided to put them in as it would have made a it a little more interesting. Perhaps I shouldn't have, but I don't think that would be something I would want to reverse now, and I don't think many people would have voted for Johnson anyways.
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Hopal
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Postby Hopal » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:47 pm

I'm going to declare this one, for the first matchup George Washington won against Joe Biden with Washington having 14 vote against Biden's 2. I think I'm going to run the poll for around a day unless there is a particularly close matchup or very low participation, to allow more people to vote but also get through the matchups faster.

Anyways the next matchup is John Adams against Donald Trump.
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:06 pm

Oh no, I didn't even choose a winner in my matchup.

Eeny-meeny-miny-mo...
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Postby Silvedania » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:30 pm

Not close. Both bad, but not even close.
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Postby Zurkir » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:53 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:I’m going to go with Joe Biden because George Washington owned slaves


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Postby Novostia » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:55 pm

Yea this one’s gonna be an easy victory for Adams
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Hopal
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Postby Hopal » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:58 pm

Fillygreed wrote:The poll could maybe get away with 3 options at a time (no multi-voting). Particularly if you worked through the known bad Presidents as the third option. As long as one President in that poll gets an outright majority you would establish that they would beat each of the others in a head-to-head.

Also Washington should sit out the whole tournament. Because he would have wanted it that way!

We might have been able to convince Washington to participate.

It looks like Adams has a strong lead, I'm not sure if the votes from the previous matchup were reset, I'll check if that happens again with the next bracket, but Adams would be ahead 8-1 not counting the 16 votes as they align from the last vote anyway.

I will be voting for Adams, he wasn't the best president with the Alien and Sedition Acts, but he was better than Trump, he was the only founding father president not to own slaves, and Trump seems almost like the most pro-slavery president in modern-history with what seems to be his support of the confederacy the Capitol riots and his handling of the pandemic.
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Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:37 pm

The fact that I missed the Adams-Trump window further solidifies my fence-sitting. Ok...maybe there is one I like over the other...it's...[NOPE NOT SAYING WHO].
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Postby Necroghastia » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:44 pm

Jesus, Jackson vs. Reagan is like asking whether you want to drink water from a sewer or water from Chernobyl.
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Zurkir
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Postby Zurkir » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:22 pm

Fillygreed wrote:
Zurkir wrote:


Washington did own slaves. I guess you could make that fact go away by banging your head on the wall ... but think of all the other good things that you'd force to go away too. Your first kiss. That time you got 100% on a test. That time standing on a pier, when you felt completely happy for no particular reason ...

Sure, it's not the entirely of Washington's story, but if you want to make the case for Washington > Biden then talk about his achievements, and particularly those as President. Given Biden's meagre achievements so far, that should be easy for you.


People owned slaves back then. Yes it was indeed terrible. And it’s not only great but was necessary that society move past slavery. But this whole “that President was racist” or “that famous general cheated on his wife” eclipsing all else that person may have accomplished and being presented as a face reason for erasing them from history or belittling them with red ink is just dumb.

It’s logical to suggest other choice Presidents may have been better than him. But Biden????
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Western Fardelshufflestein
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Postby Western Fardelshufflestein » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:47 pm

Zurkir wrote:
Fillygreed wrote:
Washington did own slaves. I guess you could make that fact go away by banging your head on the wall ... but think of all the other good things that you'd force to go away too. Your first kiss. That time you got 100% on a test. That time standing on a pier, when you felt completely happy for no particular reason ...

Sure, it's not the entirely of Washington's story, but if you want to make the case for Washington > Biden then talk about his achievements, and particularly those as President. Given Biden's meagre achievements so far, that should be easy for you.


People owned slaves back then. Yes it was indeed terrible. And it’s not only great but was necessary that society move past slavery. But this whole “that President was racist” or “that famous general cheated on his wife” eclipsing all else that person may have accomplished and being presented as a face reason for erasing them from history or belittling them with red ink is just dumb.

It’s logical to suggest other choice Presidents may have been better than him. But Biden????

Amen, you absolute Chad. Amen.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:30 am

It's a nice idea, but you would have been better off using randomly generated match-ups (as opposed to chronologically opposed matchups moving forward from Washington in one direction and backwards from Biden in the other), and solving your odd number of presidents issue by excluding a sitting president who's only been in office for less than three months rather than the accidental exclusion of Andrew Johnson.

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New Jacobland
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Postby New Jacobland » Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:38 am

Silvedania wrote:Not close. Both bad, but not even close.

My thoughts exactly.
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Hopal
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Postby Hopal » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:30 am

The Archregimancy wrote:It's a nice idea, but you would have been better off using randomly generated match-ups (as opposed to chronologically opposed matchups moving forward from Washington in one direction and backwards from Biden in the other), and solving your odd number of presidents issue by excluding a sitting president who's only been in office for less than three months rather than the accidental exclusion of Andrew Johnson.

My apologies, I probably shouldn't have included Biden, again I apologize for the inclusion of Biden and exclusion of Andrew Johnson. Would you want me to replace Biden with Johnson and re-run that bracket?
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Unstoppable Empire of Doom
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Founded: Dec 18, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:42 am

Hopal wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:It's a nice idea, but you would have been better off using randomly generated match-ups (as opposed to chronologically opposed matchups moving forward from Washington in one direction and backwards from Biden in the other), and solving your odd number of presidents issue by excluding a sitting president who's only been in office for less than three months rather than the accidental exclusion of Andrew Johnson.

My apologies, I probably shouldn't have included Biden, again I apologize for the inclusion of Biden and exclusion of Andrew Johnson. Would you want me to replace Biden with Johnson and re-run that bracket?

Could run him against Jefferson Davis. It would bring you back to an even number and although he wasn't a US president he did preside over millions of people within pre and post war US clay.
Last edited by Unstoppable Empire of Doom on Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hopal
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Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hopal » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:44 am

Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:
Hopal wrote:My apologies, I probably shouldn't have included Biden, again I apologize for the inclusion of Biden and exclusion of Andrew Johnson. Would you want me to replace Biden with Johnson and re-run that bracket?

Could run him against Jefferson Davis. It would bring you back to an even number and although he wasn't a US president he did preside over millions of people within pre and post war US clay.

Sure why not? I'll add another matchup putting Andrew Johnson against Jefferson Davis, two horrible presidents.
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The Archregimancy
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Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:34 am

Hopal wrote:
Unstoppable Empire of Doom wrote:Could run him against Jefferson Davis. It would bring you back to an even number and although he wasn't a US president he did preside over millions of people within pre and post war US clay.

Sure why not? I'll add another matchup putting Andrew Johnson against Jefferson Davis, two horrible presidents.


Jefferson Davis wasn't a president of the United States. He was a insurrectionist who led an armed revolt against the government of the United States as the head of a short-lived unrecognised breakaway state.

Andrew Johnson, however poor, was at least a US president.

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