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by Noahs Second Country » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:28 pm
by Honeydewistania » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:32 pm
Great Algerstonia wrote:Parxland wrote:This April Fools event was disappointing and I think it could have been a lot better by letting people manually choose who the best nation was out of the whole community pool, maybe with some mechanism for preference voting. I lost count of the times I picked 'neither' because all the choices were faceless 'r/d'/card-farm puppets. Even though "829,257 votes were cast", the RNG was frustrating and kept me from having fun with this.
I agree. To add to this, you shouldve been able to only vote for WA nations
Alger wrote:if you have egoquotes in your signature, touch grass
by New Jacobland » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:34 pm
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:43 pm
Please make it a permanent mini game. Nation-states can be a little more fun and there must be some information showing how many votes we gotNoahs Second Country wrote:Tweaks to the matchmaking could make this a good fun permanent feature, like the challenge minigame. Maybe an opt-in system?
There just wasn't enough time for things to play out in 28 hours.
by Mombombu » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:46 pm
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:54 pm
by Strike » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:22 pm
Violet wrote:North Prarie wrote:This would be cooler if you could go to a nation page and give them a vote. Then regions could go against each other and it would become a fun arms race, similar to N-Day.
This time I tried to avoid the type of contest that gets immediately dominated by players with thousands of puppets, as it's hard work fending off bots during these events. It's meant as more of an exploratory journey through parts of NationStates you might not normally see. But I understand that team-based competitive events are more fun for a lot of people.
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:44 pm
I think the only problem with the current vote is not seeing the number of votes. Puppet nations are also a nation, I don't understand why they make you so uncomfortable.Strike wrote:Violet wrote:This time I tried to avoid the type of contest that gets immediately dominated by players with thousands of puppets, as it's hard work fending off bots during these events. It's meant as more of an exploratory journey through parts of NationStates you might not normally see. But I understand that team-based competitive events are more fun for a lot of people.
Its nice to have things that are different though and I think this almost worked. Honestly, as seriously un-fun as it was with all the puppets, I still kept coming back and playing a little more just to see if RNG would produce any nation I'd ever heard of before .... which was fun in a pulling card packs kind of way but also thankful the event has ended and I'm not tempted to keep doing it kind of way.
How about we do it again
This time you only get nations from your region to go up against each other. At the end of the first time period, all 1st place nations in all regions get moved to a second pool where the global game commences.
Seems best of both worlds. You have a mini-game that people can actually care about because its comparing nations they are familiar with, then, you have a global game that is interesting because the participants are both pre-filtered and more relevant but at the same time incredibly diverse and disparate.
by Goobergunchia » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:01 pm
by Luziyca » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:06 pm
Goobergunchia wrote:I don't think seeing puppets is inherently bad because if somebody has some cool themed puppets that they've put work into, it's not a bad thing to give them a bit more visibility. I also don't mind seeing, like, shared Founder nations or similar. And I definitely wouldn't want a feature making it publicly visible that a nation was a puppet, even if its puppetmaster remained secret.
The big problem is low-effort puppets that don't have their own national identities (like the Wombles, or obvious card farms, or obvious R/D nations sitting in jump points) and I suspect that excluding the big Puppet Storage regions would mitigate this problem to the extent that it would be at most a minor annoyance.
by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:10 pm
Not wanting puppets means you don't trust your nation enough. I trust my nation and I would like to live in my own nation.You can easily consume cigarettes and alcohol in my country.I will soon enact the right to public protest and euthanasia.Goobergunchia wrote:I don't think seeing puppets is inherently bad because if somebody has some cool themed puppets that they've put work into, it's not a bad thing to give them a bit more visibility. I also don't mind seeing, like, shared Founder nations or similar. And I definitely wouldn't want a feature making it publicly visible that a nation was a puppet, even if its puppetmaster remained secret.
The big problem is low-effort puppets that don't have their own national identities (like the Wombles, or obvious card farms, or obvious R/D nations sitting in jump points) and I suspect that excluding the big Puppet Storage regions would mitigate this problem to the extent that it would be at most a minor annoyance.
by The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:17 pm
by Strike » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:32 pm
by Palindromes » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:45 am
by Minoa » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:11 am
by Trotterdam » Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:18 am
by SherpDaWerp » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:05 am
Trotterdam wrote:So 829257 total votes, over the current NationStates population and taking into account that each vote is between two nations, means an average of 6-7 votes per nation. Just saying.
by Minoa » Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:32 am
SherpDaWerp wrote:Trotterdam wrote:So 829257 total votes, over the current NationStates population and taking into account that each vote is between two nations, means an average of 6-7 votes per nation. Just saying.
Firstly, a "down" vote didn't contribute to nations' rankings. So we're looking at 3-4 ranking votes per nation, max. Secondly, the votes are clearly not evenly spread.
If someone has a better way to search - by all means, enlighten me - but for now, the best method is going by region and checking whether the population is the same as the number of ranked nations. This only works in nations with a population less than or equal 25, however, so you'll have to search from here.
I searched a bunch of regions (without recording which specifically are unranked), and here we have it:
Topid - 12 unranked; Antarctic Oasis - 4 unranked; Nordic Lands - 2 unranked; 100 Nations of Conquest - 12 unranked; Free Market Federation - 3 unranked; Universal Dream Network - 5 unranked; Corporate States of America - 7 unranked; Rireinu - 7 unranked; Teremara - 10 unranked; The Confederacy of Free Lands - 5 unranked.
That's 250 nations, of which 67 are unranked. More than a quarter.
Personally, I'd attribute this to the "knockout" system - designed to reduce puppets (who wouldn't be getting voted) from making it further into the event, instead, it just knocked out anyone who'd been unlucky enough to not get a vote, thus concentrating the votes according to whoever got randomly assigned a few winning combos first. In theory, it was a good approach, but there just wasn't enough incoming data for every candidate to be voted reasonably before low-vote nations started getting removed.
by Trotterdam » Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:15 am
Regardless of how the internal mechanics work, that's still people consciously choosing not to upvote you when they could have. That's meaningful information.SherpDaWerp wrote:Firstly, a "down" vote didn't contribute to nations' rankings. So we're looking at 3-4 ranking votes per nation, max.
Yeah. 6-7 votes is around the minimum for what you'd need to reliably identify puppets that should be removed from the ranking. If the anti-puppet pruning actually started kicking in before the end of the event, that's too early. There wouldn't have been enough votes to both give all nations a fair chance and then also collect more detailed preferences on the higher-ranking nations.SherpDaWerp wrote:Personally, I'd attribute this to the "knockout" system - designed to reduce puppets (who wouldn't be getting voted) from making it further into the event, instead, it just knocked out anyone who'd been unlucky enough to not get a vote, thus concentrating the votes according to whoever got randomly assigned a few winning combos first. In theory, it was a good approach, but there just wasn't enough incoming data for every candidate to be voted reasonably before low-vote nations started getting removed.
by Strike » Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:31 pm
Trotterdam wrote:Regardless of how the internal mechanics work, that's still people consciously choosing not to upvote you when they could have. That's meaningful information.SherpDaWerp wrote:Firstly, a "down" vote didn't contribute to nations' rankings. So we're looking at 3-4 ranking votes per nation, max.
by Australian rePublic » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:18 am
by Harmonic Empire » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:20 pm
by Erynia and Draconia » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:24 pm
Harmonic Empire wrote:Rather weak april fool event.
by SherpDaWerp » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:15 pm
Trotterdam wrote:Regardless of how the internal mechanics work, that's still people consciously choosing not to upvote you when they could have. That's meaningful information.SherpDaWerp wrote:Firstly, a "down" vote didn't contribute to nations' rankings. So we're looking at 3-4 ranking votes per nation, max.
Trotterdam wrote:Yeah. 6-7 votes is around the minimum for what you'd need to reliably identify puppets that should be removed from the ranking. If the anti-puppet pruning actually started kicking in before the end of the event, that's too early. There wouldn't have been enough votes to both give all nations a fair chance and then also collect more detailed preferences on the higher-ranking nations.SherpDaWerp wrote:Personally, I'd attribute this to the "knockout" system - designed to reduce puppets (who wouldn't be getting voted) from making it further into the event, instead, it just knocked out anyone who'd been unlucky enough to not get a vote, thus concentrating the votes according to whoever got randomly assigned a few winning combos first. In theory, it was a good approach, but there just wasn't enough incoming data for every candidate to be voted reasonably before low-vote nations started getting removed.
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