NATION

PASSWORD

Repeal “Condemn The Black Hawks”

A chamber dedicated to the dissemination of inter-regional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary.
User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Repeal “Condemn The Black Hawks”

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:01 am

The Security Council,

RECOGNIZING the good intent of the original proposal;

ACKNOWLEDGING SC resolution #217 goes much further in-depth about why The Black Hawks deserves a condemnation;

STATING that the original resolution has very few arguments as to why specifically The Black Hawks is special and deserves to be condemned with arguments such as: "CONCERNED that The Black Hawks have openly targeted and raided hundreds of regions and used regional bans to permanently exert their control.";

NOTING the original proposal makes vague claims without giving any specific examples;

BELIEVING that the original proposal has done more harm than good by giving The Black Hawks propaganda and recruitment material as they say in their recruitment telegram: "The Black Hawks: The Most Feared Military Organization in NationStates. Now the only region with two World Assembly Condemnations!";

WISHING to stop the Black Hawks from using this condemnation as a badge of honor which defeats the purpose of the original resolution;

FURTHER NOTING that this is not a pardon of The Black Hawks' acts against defenseless founderless regions;

Hereby, repeals SC resolution #52 Condemn The Black Hawks
Last edited by Zaberaz Hapang on Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:34 am, edited 14 times in total.

User avatar
Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2868
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:47 am

Which one? There are two you know. Or didn’t your “research” get that far?
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:53 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Which one? There are two you know. Or didn’t your “research” get that far?

The first one, SC resolution #52

User avatar
J o J
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 170
Founded: Dec 18, 2017
Father Knows Best State

Postby J o J » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:54 am

Zaberaz Hapang wrote:The Security Council,

RECOGNIZING the good intent of the original proposal.

SHOCKED by the fact that The Black Hawks have used this proposal as propaganda.

NOTING that this is not a pardon of The Black Hawks' acts against defenseless founderless regions.

BELIEVING that the original proposal has done more harm than good by giving The Black Hawks propaganda material and increasing their ego.

Therefore, repeals Condemn The Black Hawks


Alrighty, so I'm far from knowledgeable on the WA OR SC, but I would gander the majority of condemned nations and regions want to be condemned, and this repeal could set the standard that those that want to be condemned ought not be condemned for the reason that they would use it as propaganda and egoboosting, and therefore, it would inadvertently make condemnations totally obsolete and useless because if nobody that wants to be condemned is actually allowed to be condemned, then there will be but a trickle of condemnations coming out of the SC faucet.

Just food for thought.
Last edited by J o J on Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Don't be sour, here have a flower,
I'll refound your region in under an hour!
Calm down, no need to flame,
NationStates is just a game!

User avatar
Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2868
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:55 am

Zaberaz Hapang wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Which one? There are two you know. Or didn’t your “research” get that far?

The first one, SC resolution #52

Then you need to reference it in your draft as well as addressing the contents of the resolution.

Might pay to read the SC rules first though.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:00 am

J o J wrote:
Zaberaz Hapang wrote:The Security Council,

RECOGNIZING the good intent of the original proposal.

SHOCKED by the fact that The Black Hawks have used this proposal as propaganda.

NOTING that this is not a pardon of The Black Hawks' acts against defenseless founderless regions.

BELIEVING that the original proposal has done more harm than good by giving The Black Hawks propaganda material and increasing their ego.

Therefore, repeals Condemn The Black Hawks


Alrighty, so I'm far from knowledgeable on the WA OR SC, but I would gander the majority of condemned nations and regions want to be condemned, and this repeal could set the standard that those that want to be condemned ought not be condemned for the reason that they would use it as propaganda and egoboosting, and therefore, it would inadvertently make condemnations totally obsolete and useless because if nobody that wants to be condemned is actually allowed to be condemned, then there will be but a trickle of condemnations coming out of the SC faucet.

Just food for thought.

It is possible, however, condemnations are supposed to throw regions/nations back, not help them grow, The Black Hawks use their two condemmnations as recruitment material, to quote form their recruitment telegram: "The Black Hawks: The Most Feared Military Organization in NationStates. Now the only region with two World Assembly Condemnations!"

-The Black Hawks' recruitment telegram paragraph 4

User avatar
Tinhampton
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8189
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:21 am

Support.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 45yo Tory woman; Cambridge graduate; possibly very controversial; currently reading 21 Lessons for the 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari

I STAND WITH PAM DUNCAN-GLANCY

User avatar
Outer Sparta
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11693
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:34 am

There's not enough in this to warrant any support from me. Also, you have to keep in mind there are two condemnations and that whichever one you want to repeal has to address the contents of only that specific one.
social democracy, environmental protection, universal healthcare, free college, social equality, LGBT, pro-choice,
GOP, corporate socialism, Trump, neoconservatism, white supremacy, extreme political views, corruption

User avatar
Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2868
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:45 am

Actually as well as not referencing the correct (any) resolution the draft as it stands is probably illegal. TBH is a region and regions, as far as I’m aware, can’t have egos. So R2(a) violation?
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

User avatar
Fruo
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Mar 24, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Fruo » Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:48 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Which one? There are two you know. Or didn’t your “research” get that far?

it says the first one at the bottom

User avatar
Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2868
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:00 am

Fruo wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Which one? There are two you know. Or didn’t your “research” get that far?

it says the first one at the bottom

It does now because the OP edited it in there after I asked the question.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:09 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Actually as well as not referencing the correct (any) resolution the draft as it stands is probably illegal. TBH is a region and regions, as far as I’m aware, can’t have egos. So R2(a) violation?

You are right, edited it to correct for that

User avatar
And Spaces
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: Nov 15, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby And Spaces » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:57 am

It's too short. You probably just didn't research enough about TBH although my region has close relations with them after EWS commended it.
THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF AND SPACES
Join Europeia!
NEWS:The alliance between Britain and France collapses as the skirmishes in Africa erupt into conflicts and independence movements coup the colonies -- Donald Trump Jr. sworn in as president of the East Coast Republic -- Ok Gen X meme takes the internet by storm
Joe Biden, LGBT Rights, Gun Control, Gender Equality, Centrism, World Peace
Abortion
Donald Trump
Became a communist country through a revolution, due to soviet revolutions. Contains most of Romania, and also built artificial mountains to prevent enemies from coming. Had another civil war which is why there is a multi-party system with mostly 4 parties. Current Year: 2041
A 16.8 civilization, according to this index.

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:51 am

And Spaces wrote:It's too short. You probably just didn't research enough about TBH although my region has close relations with them after EWS commended it.

I personally don't believe just for being short a proposal is bad, you can make a 40 line proposal with a lot of filler or a 10 line one that gets straight to the point, I believe if they present good arguments both are good

User avatar
Jedinsto
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 495
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jedinsto » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:52 am

Zaberaz Hapang wrote:
And Spaces wrote:It's too short. You probably just didn't research enough about TBH although my region has close relations with them after EWS commended it.

I personally don't believe just for being short a proposal is bad, you can make a 40 line proposal with a lot of filler or a 10 line one that gets straight to the point, I believe if they present good arguments both are good

Yup, just make sure to address the contents of the proposal itself, not just the fenda ideology.
My drafts
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

User avatar
Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2868
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:48 am

Zaberaz Hapang wrote:
And Spaces wrote:It's too short. You probably just didn't research enough about TBH although my region has close relations with them after EWS commended it.

I personally don't believe just for being short a proposal is bad, you can make a 40 line proposal with a lot of filler or a 10 line one that gets straight to the point, I believe if they present good arguments both are good

What you personally believe doesn’t matter, it’s the rules that count and one of those for a repeal is to address the contents of the target resolution.

And I can’t see that you’ve done that.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:38 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
Zaberaz Hapang wrote:I personally don't believe just for being short a proposal is bad, you can make a 40 line proposal with a lot of filler or a 10 line one that gets straight to the point, I believe if they present good arguments both are good

What you personally believe doesn’t matter, it’s the rules that count and one of those for a repeal is to address the contents of the target resolution.

And I can’t see that you’ve done that.

Nowhere in the rules it says proposals have to be of a certain length.

User avatar
Jedinsto
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 495
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jedinsto » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:49 am

Zaberaz Hapang wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:What you personally believe doesn’t matter, it’s the rules that count and one of those for a repeal is to address the contents of the target resolution.

And I can’t see that you’ve done that.

Nowhere in the rules it says proposals have to be of a certain length.

He's referring to the rule that you have to address the target of the repeal in the repeal. See "relevant argument."
Last edited by Jedinsto on Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
My drafts
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:09 am

Jedinsto wrote:
Zaberaz Hapang wrote:Nowhere in the rules it says proposals have to be of a certain length.

He's referring to the rule that you have to address the target of the repeal in the repeal. See "relevant argument."

As I have already said, this proposal is a WIP, it isn't done.

User avatar
Rhino-Lions
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 10
Founded: Jan 19, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Rhino-Lions » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:58 am

While the intent of condemnation is to have a negative effect and encourage positive change, their are nations like the Black Hawks who will spin it into a positive. The fact they accomplished that goal is not a sufficient reason to repeal the condemnation IMO. The condemnation still serves a greater purpose to other nations and people who would be opposed to what they have been doing and aid in those entities being able to know what they have done and choose to avoid them. It is unfortunate that it also does the inverse, attracting other like minded nations to their support, however that is their choice and one we have to accept. Removing the condemnation will not change the minds of those who are attracted to the Black Hawks policies and methodology, rather it would only reduce information available to those who would disagree with their stances and ignorantly support them due to the condemnation not present to inform them of what they have done. I am in firm believe that a condemnation should only be applied in severe situations so that a condemnation has a strong meaning, and as such would normally support a repeal if it has merit, but the reasoning of this repeal lacks effective purpose and only would cause net harm. Sadly I have to say that if this was to come to vote, I would strongly dissent and vote against this.

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:32 am

Did some changes

User avatar
Free Ravensburg
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1439
Founded: Jun 01, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Free Ravensburg » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:34 am

N o .

Not even in the WA, and I say n o
INT:| Teutonia and Lithuania for Ceasefire | Mali-South Saharan Ceasefire Ends as Mali Troops Cross DMZ Border / NAT:| Ravenian Adventurer Dies After Taking Arrow in the Knee, Perpetrators to be Captured | Viktor Leimstag releases more military info | Ravenia was Lewded Again | Adolph Hesse to Step Down as Head Diplomat, Elections Underway
Part of a Multiverse I started in Grade School | We still outpizza the Hut | Me writing Factbooks | Declare War? Yes/No | How we stole Ari’s blanket | Making Second F7 Movie, But Old Horror Movie Will be Stolen Used as Inspiration | My political alignment via 6triangles | Q&A | Factbooks made by me are formatted to be similar to essays, minus indentation | My other Counterpart | Nations I own:Enth Arth|Multiversal Raiders

User avatar
Fruo
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Mar 24, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Fruo » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:35 am

submit it soon though and then we can use this repeal to get all the raider condemnation and give them the opposites

User avatar
Bhang Bhang Duc
Minister
 
Posts: 2868
Founded: Dec 17, 2003
New York Times Democracy

Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:39 am

Better, but still not very good.

One thing you should be aware of is that numerous attempts have been made to repeal SC#52 using much the same old tired arguments as yourself. They’ve all failed.

The Hawks deserve their two badges - nothing you’ve written will persuade anyone that they don’t.
Former Delegate and Guardian of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

User avatar
Zaberaz Hapang
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 45
Founded: Apr 29, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Zaberaz Hapang » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:40 am

Fruo wrote:submit it soon though and then we can use this repeal to get all the raider condemnation and give them the opposites

I want to make this a good, fleshed-out proposal, so I won't rush it, but I will do my best to not take a millennia.
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Better, but still not very good.

One thing you should be aware of is that numerous attempts have been made to repeal SC#52 using much the same old tired arguments as yourself. They’ve all failed.

The Hawks deserve their two badges - nothing you’ve written will persuade anyone that they don’t.

Anyone that doesn't like the black hawks should want this, the black hawks WANT their two condemms, so the best course of action is to give them less propaganda and recruitment material.
Last edited by Zaberaz Hapang on Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to Security Council

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads