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[R] Persistent Non-English in CCP Thread

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Rusozak
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[R] Persistent Non-English in CCP Thread

Postby Rusozak » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:21 am

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=499667&start=325

This whole last page has been filled with posts in Chinese (and French?) despite reminders that it is an English-speaking thread and requests to post in English. I thought it could use a loom.
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Ving Humintbarrindion
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ving Humintbarrindion » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:08 am

I hope I am acting in accordance with relevant regulations by submitting a post here as one of the posters to which this complaint directly pertains.

I submit here my arguments for no-action. These arguments are made on two levels: the procedure level (whether this is actionable), and the policy level (whether this should be actionable).

Procedure

Procedurally, there is currently no rules accessible by users regarding the suitability of using any particular language. The collection of rules available for perusal by an average user (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=260044) does not include such an item.

Sound moderation practices require that actions are taken when and only when there is evidence of non-conformance to a documented policy; in this case, such a documented policy does not exist. Therefore, the appropriate actions would be to trigger a discussion (amongst moderators and/or other relevant parties) for the purpose of understanding how best to modify (or not modify) existing policies, prior to actually enforcing this (currently non-existent) policy.

Policy

The primary overarching objective of the moderation team is to safeguard the website from potential legal, operational, or other critical threats; the secondary objective is to nurture an environment that is consistent with the goal(s) of the primary stakeholder (traffic, for example).

I believe multilingualism is fully consistent with these objectives. By allowing open discourse, we expand the scope of the receptive audience for the website, increase user participation and retention, and can potentially decrease the risk of harmful actions against the website.

Finally, as a personal opinion (i.e. neither policy nor procedure):

I think it would be silly if people with the most experience about China are in practice discouraged from participating in threads about China, or if Christians are discouraged from participating in threads about Christianity, or if women are discouraged from participating in threads about women.

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:26 am

Ving Humintbarrindion wrote:I hope I am acting in accordance with relevant regulations by submitting a post here as one of the posters to which this complaint directly pertains.

I submit here my arguments for no-action. These arguments are made on two levels: the procedure level (whether this is actionable), and the policy level (whether this should be actionable).

Procedure

Procedurally, there is currently no rules accessible by users regarding the suitability of using any particular language. The collection of rules available for perusal by an average user (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=260044) does not include such an item.

Sound moderation practices require that actions are taken when and only when there is evidence of non-conformance to a documented policy; in this case, such a documented policy does not exist. Therefore, the appropriate actions would be to trigger a discussion (amongst moderators and/or other relevant parties) for the purpose of understanding how best to modify (or not modify) existing policies, prior to actually enforcing this (currently non-existent) policy.

Policy

The primary overarching objective of the moderation team is to safeguard the website from potential legal, operational, or other critical threats; the secondary objective is to nurture an environment that is consistent with the goal(s) of the primary stakeholder (traffic, for example).

I believe multilingualism is fully consistent with these objectives. By allowing open discourse, we expand the scope of the receptive audience for the website, increase user participation and retention, and can potentially decrease the risk of harmful actions against the website.

Finally, as a personal opinion (i.e. neither policy nor procedure):

I think it would be silly if people with the most experience about China are in practice discouraged from participating in threads about China, or if Christians are discouraged from participating in threads about Christianity, or if women are discouraged from participating in threads about women.

Nevertheless, this is an English-speaking forum. We have a few non-English threads for people to use, including on in Chinese. You may post in a language other than English as long as you provide an English translation.
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Ving Humintbarrindion
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Postby Ving Humintbarrindion » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:05 pm

Nevertheless, this is an English-speaking forum.


Could you clarify whether this a descriptive statement or a prescriptive one? If prescriptive, are these rules regarding mandatory English supremacy posted somewhere, and I have missed them?

We have a few non-English threads for people to use, including on in Chinese. You may post in a language other than English as long as you provide an English translation.


Could I then start a thread in French?

I believe there is precedence in moderator action when a non-English thread prevents posters from posting in a language inconsistent with the theme of that thread (I think I ran across one a few months ago when looking for a place to post in French). In other words, a French poster cannot trigger moderator action when an Italian posters posts Italian in a French thread.

So all non-English threads are de facto multilingual threads.

Is this interpretation correct?

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:36 pm

You post in the same language as the thread is being posted in. Persistently posting in other languages that the other posters do not understand is rude at best, and spamming or trolling at worst.

Please use common sense rather than trying to rules lawyer.

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Ving Humintbarrindion
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Postby Ving Humintbarrindion » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:50 pm

Katganistan wrote:You post in the same language as the thread is being posted in. Persistently posting in other languages that the other posters do not understand is rude at best, and spamming or trolling at worst.

Please use common sense rather than trying to rules lawyer.


I apologise for giving the impression of 'rules lawyer'; that is not the intention. This is a genuine question to clarify what is actionable, because in most places I have lived, it is not considered rude for people to speak their own language. While I am certainly willing to respect particular sensibilities for some specific group of people, this is not really 'common sense' to me.

For example, I have posted in French in the aforementioned Chinese thread; others have posted in English or other languages. These were responded to with kindness and respect (or ignored, as people are free to do). At no point did the native Chinese posters find it 'rude' for others to speak a different language - they certainly did not escalate the situation to moderator action.

Ultimately, I would just like to know whether it is still against the rules for me to (for example) post French in the Chinese thread, even when no one complains.

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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:07 am

Kat answered your question above.

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The Free Joy State
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:06 am

It appears the message didn't stick:
viewtopic.php?p=38417629#p38417629
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:26 am

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:28 am

Thanks, NVI!
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Ving Humintbarrindion
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Ex-Nation

Postby Ving Humintbarrindion » Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:42 am

Sedgistan wrote:Kat answered your question above.


Understood. Thank you very much for your time and effort; I have no more questions and accept the ruling.

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Lamoni
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