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[DRAFT] Universal Basic Income Act

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The Blue Star Union
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[DRAFT] Universal Basic Income Act

Postby The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:42 am

The World Assembly:

Recognizing the economic oppression of the lower and middle classes, increasing poverty rates, the growing need for reliable income, and that the wealth of the highest percentages of citizens is not trickling down to the lower classes.

Seeking to close a growing wealth gap and place economic security in the hands of the common working citizen:

Hereby,

1. Defines income as any monetary distribution directed to working or non-working citizens

2. Establishes a system in which an income is given in equal amount to every citizen of majority regardless of religion, social status or class, sexuality, race, gender or gender identity, nationality, species (if it may apply to animal, extraterrestrial, or artificial or synthetic life), or occupation.

3. Encourages nations to pile on income in addition to the Universal Basic Income if said nations so choose.

4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.
Last edited by The Blue Star Union on Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:30 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:49 am

Pretty sure it's illegal for game mechanics
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Silvedania
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Postby Silvedania » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:56 am

Jedinsto wrote:Pretty sure it's illegal for game mechanics

No, I don't think so.
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The Blue Star Union
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Postby The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:06 am

Jedinsto wrote:Pretty sure it's illegal for game mechanics

After reviewing the proposal guidelines, this proposal is legal, as it is not a change to the game itself or how it functions. There is some language that promotes non-compliance or opting out, which will be revised

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:54 am

The Blue Star Union wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:Pretty sure it's illegal for game mechanics

After reviewing the proposal guidelines, this proposal is legal, as it is not a change to the game itself or how it functions. There is some language that promotes non-compliance or opting out, which will be revised

Ooc: it does seem to conflict with GAR#17.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:01 pm

4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.

This doesn't really work out too well. Let's take two IRL currencies: the US Dollar, and the Japanese Yen. As of the time I am typing this, 5000 Japanese Yen is equivalent to 46.86 US Dollars, whereas 5000 US dollars is equivalent to 533460 Japanese Yen. You can't choose an arbitrary amount of currency for the purposes of mandating UBI on an international scale, as currency strengths and the valuation of currencies themselves in relation to other currencies vary wildly from nation to nation.

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Frontier Isles
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Postby Frontier Isles » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:04 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.

This doesn't really work out too well. Let's take two IRL currencies: the US Dollar, and the Japanese Yen. As of the time I am typing this, 5000 Japanese Yen is equivalent to 46.86 US Dollars, whereas 5000 US dollars is equivalent to 533460 Japanese Yen. You can't choose an arbitrary amount of currency for the purposes of mandating UBI on an international scale, as currency strengths and the valuation of currencies themselves in relation to other currencies vary wildly from nation to nation.

But this is NationStates. All currencies are worth the same in NationStates (1 unit of any currency = 1 Standard Monetary Unit in NS).
Last edited by Frontier Isles on Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Romextly
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Postby Romextly » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:06 pm

I will not aupport this

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:08 pm

Frontier Isles wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:
4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.

This doesn't really work out too well. Let's take two IRL currencies: the US Dollar, and the Japanese Yen. As of the time I am typing this, 5000 Japanese Yen is equivalent to 46.86 US Dollars, whereas 5000 US dollars is equivalent to 533460 Japanese Yen. You can't choose an arbitrary amount of currency for the purposes of mandating UBI on an international scale, as currency strengths and the valuation of currencies themselves in relation to other currencies vary wildly from nation to nation.

But this is NationStates. All currencies are worth the same in NationStates (1 unit of any currency = 1 Standard Monetary Unit in NS).

OOC: Roleplay considerations are a thing though.

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Frontier Isles
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Postby Frontier Isles » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:19 pm

The Blue Star Union wrote:The World Assembly:

2. Establishes a system in which an income free from taxation and/or deduction is given in equal amount to every citizen of majority regardless of religion, social status or class, sexuality, race, gender or gender identity, nationality, species (if it may apply to animal, extraterrestrial, or artificial or synthetic life), or occupation.

3. Encourages nations to pile on income in addition to the Universal Basic Income if said nations so choose.

4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.

I would think that 5000 per month is way to much: 5000*12=60000 per year. The average real-life person in the UK makes 42330 pounds sterling per year. Switching the focus back to NS, how do you expect governments to pay for all of that?

Secondly, you want this basic income to be tax-free. In other words, we're looking at the "Average Disposable Income" (ADI) of a nation. In the world rankings of NS for ADI, having an ADI at around 50000 currencies already places you in the top 20% in the world. In other words, more than 80% of NS nations can't achieve your proposed standard.

I would suggest lowering your standard by a lot. (I mean, Andrew Yang, who briefly ran for President of the United States, suggested $1000 per month).
Last edited by Frontier Isles on Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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The Blue Star Union
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Postby The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:11 pm

Frontier Isles wrote:
The Blue Star Union wrote:The World Assembly:

2. Establishes a system in which an income free from taxation and/or deduction is given in equal amount to every citizen of majority regardless of religion, social status or class, sexuality, race, gender or gender identity, nationality, species (if it may apply to animal, extraterrestrial, or artificial or synthetic life), or occupation.

3. Encourages nations to pile on income in addition to the Universal Basic Income if said nations so choose.

4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.

I would think that 5000 per month is way to much: 5000*12=60000 per year. The average real-life person in the UK makes 42330 pounds sterling per year. Switching the focus back to NS, how do you expect governments to pay for all of that?

Secondly, you want this basic income to be tax-free. In other words, we're looking at the "Average Disposable Income" (ADI) of a nation. In the world rankings of NS for ADI, having an ADI at around 50000 currencies already places you in the top 20% in the world. In other words, more than 80% of NS nations can't achieve your proposed standard.

I would suggest lowering your standard by a lot. (I mean, Andrew Yang, who briefly ran for President of the United States, suggested $1000 per month).


This is, in fact, a valid point you make. In the most pessimistic scenario, newer nations without decent economies may struggle. However, newer nations would not be members of the WA and would not have to be in compliance with WA resolutions. Unfortunately, I see no solution for nations that have less than decent economies that are members of the WA.

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The Blue Star Union
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Postby The Blue Star Union » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:32 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:
The Blue Star Union wrote:After reviewing the proposal guidelines, this proposal is legal, as it is not a change to the game itself or how it functions. There is some language that promotes non-compliance or opting out, which will be revised

Ooc: it does seem to conflict with GAR#17.


What might we change to remove such confliction?
Edit: I don't see too much conflict with the WA General Fund Act (GAR#17). Could you please elaborate?
Last edited by The Blue Star Union on Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:23 pm

The Blue Star Union wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: it does seem to conflict with GAR#17.


What might we change to remove such confliction?
Edit: I don't see too much conflict with the WA General Fund Act (GAR#17). Could you please elaborate?

Ooc: any conflict is too much conflict. GAR#17 leaves domestic taxation questions to individual states. Any attempt to make income tax free would itself run afoul of that guarantee.

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Scalizagasti
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Postby Scalizagasti » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:52 pm

"Opposed on principle. If member states want to implement a basic income program they can do it themselves, there is no reason to force it using the World Assembly."
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:04 pm

Scalizagasti wrote:"Opposed on principle. If member states want to implement a basic income program they can do it themselves, there is no reason to force it using the World Assembly."

"This is our stance on the matter."

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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:13 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Scalizagasti wrote:"Opposed on principle. If member states want to implement a basic income program they can do it themselves, there is no reason to force it using the World Assembly."

"This is our stance on the matter."

"Same from here."
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Zarnicovia nova
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Postby Zarnicovia nova » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:15 pm

we will support this.
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The Blue Star Union
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Postby The Blue Star Union » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:28 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
The Blue Star Union wrote:

What might we change to remove such confliction?
Edit: I don't see too much conflict with the WA General Fund Act (GAR#17). Could you please elaborate?

Ooc: any conflict is too much conflict. GAR#17 leaves domestic taxation questions to individual states. Any attempt to make income tax free would itself run afoul of that guarantee.


Okay, that makes sense, but if nations choose to tax this income, there would be a loophole in compliance where the entirety could be taxed and the net gain of any citizen would be zeroed.

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Ardiveds
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Postby Ardiveds » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:34 am

Graintfjall wrote:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=26911746#p26911746

OOC: What about this? How did this not cover UBI?
Other than that how exactly is a an arbitrary five thousand units remotely viable for different econmies with different values of currency?
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The Blue Star Union
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Postby The Blue Star Union » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:44 am

Ardiveds wrote:
Graintfjall wrote:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=26911746#p26911746

OOC: What about this? How did this not cover UBI?
Other than that how exactly is a an arbitrary five thousand units remotely viable for different econmies with different values of currency?


Because this is nationstates, every currency has EXACTLY the same value, like one of my Corras is equal to one of your Runadts. Economic output in NS is measured in Standard Monetary Units and five thousand is perfectly valid assuming population grows in proportion to economy.

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Clton
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Postby Clton » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:45 am

Yeah no
Clton is trying to remove welfare and taxation so we will not abide by something that will bankrupt us
because giving someone 5000 Aureas which is a GOLD-BACKED currency would destroy our economy
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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:52 am

The Blue Star Union wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:Ooc: any conflict is too much conflict. GAR#17 leaves domestic taxation questions to individual states. Any attempt to make income tax free would itself run afoul of that guarantee.


Okay, that makes sense, but if nations choose to tax this income, there would be a loophole in compliance where the entirety could be taxed and the net gain of any citizen would be zeroed.

Ooc: the rules do not make allowances for bad policy.

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Separatist Peoples
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:53 am

The Blue Star Union wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:OOC: What about this? How did this not cover UBI?
Other than that how exactly is a an arbitrary five thousand units remotely viable for different econmies with different values of currency?


Because this is nationstates, every currency has EXACTLY the same value, like one of my Corras is equal to one of your Runadts. Economic output in NS is measured in Standard Monetary Units and five thousand is perfectly valid assuming population grows in proportion to economy.

Ooc: this is not the case.

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:55 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
The Blue Star Union wrote:
Because this is nationstates, every currency has EXACTLY the same value, like one of my Corras is equal to one of your Runadts. Economic output in NS is measured in Standard Monetary Units and five thousand is perfectly valid assuming population grows in proportion to economy.

Ooc: this is not the case.

OOC: So I was right then!
Frontier Isles wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:
4. Sets the minimum value of the Universal Basic Income to no less than five-thousand standard monetary units per month and recommends that nations raise the value of the Universal Basic Income.

This doesn't really work out too well. Let's take two IRL currencies: the US Dollar, and the Japanese Yen. As of the time I am typing this, 5000 Japanese Yen is equivalent to 46.86 US Dollars, whereas 5000 US dollars is equivalent to 533460 Japanese Yen. You can't choose an arbitrary amount of currency for the purposes of mandating UBI on an international scale, as currency strengths and the valuation of currencies themselves in relation to other currencies vary wildly from nation to nation.

But this is NationStates. All currencies are worth the same in NationStates (1 unit of any currency = 1 Standard Monetary Unit in NS).

Guess they're not.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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