NATION

PASSWORD

Spain's Free Speech Protests

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15503
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Spain's Free Speech Protests

Postby Shrillland » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:54 am

This kind of flew under everyone's radars here at NSG, but after six days, we can't ignore it anymore.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pablo-has-l-rapper-s-arrest-triggers-widespread-protests-debate-n1258327

Here's the rundown.

Back in 2018, Catalan rapper Pablo Hasél was arrested and convicted on charges of glorifying terrorism and insulting the monarchy in his songs where he called King Juan Carlos a mafia boss and seemed to glorify ETA, the Basque separatist terrorist group. He was also convicted for another song where he compared current Spanish judges to Nazis and Falangists. This was all done under Spain's controversial Public Security Law of 2015, which specifically outlaws these types of statements and insults to religion as well. The law has been a divisive issue in Spain as the monarchy's prestige has all but collapsed and Catalonia has gotten ever closer to reasserting their suspended UDI. He was given until last week to report to prison, instead he barricaded himself in the University of Llieda in Llieda, Catalonia, before being arrested for not reporting in on time.

For the last six days, there have been protests and even riots in major cities like Barcelona, Madrid, and Valencia. The PSOE government under President Pedro Sanchez(remember, his title is Government President rather than PM), has vowed to stop prosecuting people under the law if it would mean imprionment, and he's also condemned the violence at the protests.

So, NSG, what's your take on all this? For me personally, I could see glorifying ETA as a problem, certainly, but Spain's monarchy and judiciary are not above criticism especially now that the monarchy has become a liability.
Stand with Content Creators Like Me! Stand With The Union!
Plebiscite Plaza 2021
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Baltenstein
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10810
Founded: Jan 25, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Baltenstein » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 am

Back in 2018, Catalan rapper Pablo Hasél was arrested and convicted on charges of glorifying terrorism and insulting the monarchy in his songs where he called King Juan Carlos a mafia boss


This seems less "criticizing" and more "stating the obvious" tbh.
O'er the hills and o'er the main.
Through Flanders, Portugal and Spain.
King George commands and we obey.
Over the hills and far away.


THE NORTH REMEMBERS

User avatar
Nanatsu no Tsuki
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 198592
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:52 am

Agreed on the ETA concerns. Everything else, monarchy, politicians and religion aren’t above criticism.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

User avatar
Arisyan
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 161
Founded: Apr 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:54 am

I was waiting for someone to start a thread on this. I noticed it when I had typed in Spain in the search bar, and this was on the headlines. I was gonna start a thread, but I didn't have enough information.

But yeah, I totally agree with the protestors and really hope the Spanish Government listens to them.
Pro: Environmentalism, Eco-Socialism, Democratic Socialism, Social Democracy,Progressivism, Pro-choice, Pro-LGTBQ+ rights, Immigration, Bernie Sanders,Secularism, Palestine And Israel, Internationalism, Alter-Globalization.
Anti: Conservatism, Traditionalism, Bigotry, TERF movement, Fascism, Stalinism, Totalitarianism, Laissez-faire capitalism, Libertarianism, Bolsonaro, Religious Fundamentalism, Nationalism


Judge of Callista
left-wing socialist
Anatoliyanskiy's OOC nation he uses to debate on NSG.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34187
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:28 am

llibertat Pablo hasel, coño
read your own damn sources
Bahia Roja wrote:I think Kowani shared that news a few hours ago.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: World emissions-cutting pledges too low again
“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”

User avatar
Dresderstan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5539
Founded: Jan 18, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:34 am

Speaking of Catalonia, seeing as it was mentioned, did we forget the regional election last week resulted in PSOE "winning" i.e. having the biggest increase and ending up with 33, the same as the ERC?
22 year old, male from Pennsylvania and proud of it. Love sports like baseball, hockey and American football, enjoy video games and TV. Music chart nerd, can't live without it. I'm gay

Imagine being shocked that greed, corruption, and abuse of power is being used in politics, that's normal. Ethics and morality are for the weak and spineless, and leads to a doomed failure in politics or any industry in general. The media is a tool used by the big political parties to fund propaganda against the other side, and the people who consume it are the sheep being used, fueling the continuing partisan divide. Time for compromise is over, time to end the reign of corrupt politicians on all sides of politcis and their crony capitalist bourgeoisie buddies through force.

User avatar
The Marlborough
Minister
 
Posts: 2552
Founded: May 27, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Marlborough » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:42 am

Considering he's a Catalan, I have no sympathy and honestly wouldn't care if he remains in prison.
Monarchist. Communitarian-Distributist. Eastern Orthodox Christian. Unironic Vlad III (aka Vlad Dracula or Vlad the Impaler) fan and apologist. My posting style is inspired by old school shitposting and MEMRI TV. Harambe had it coming.
Somewhat of a Slavophile, Hispanophile, Persophile, Romanianophile and Indophile. Pro-Canadian nuclear weapons program.
Everything for the people, nothing by the people - Emperor Joseph II
If I could wish immortality on earth, it would only be for the power of relieving the distressed - Maria Theresa
Support the Lil Red Dress Project to bring awareness to MMIWG.
Bless our neon cyberpunk future.

User avatar
Virgolia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 53
Founded: Apr 19, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Virgolia » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:48 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Agreed on the ETA concerns. Everything else, monarchy, politicians and religion aren’t above criticism.

As far as I understand, he wasn't just criticzing but more explicitly advocating death

User avatar
CoraSpia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10631
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Capitalizt

Postby CoraSpia » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:51 am

I like free speech.

I don't like people being arrested for things they say.
Pretty simple to work out what I think on this issue.
GVH has a puppet. He uses it to post in regions and on the forums. The identity of this puppet will forever remain a mystery.

User avatar
Glorious Hong Kong
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1076
Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:17 am

"Tomorrow it could be you," he tweeted before he was imprisoned and after retweeting the lyrics that he was convicted for.

"We cannot allow them to dictate to us what to say, what to feel and what to do," he added.


Damn right you won't Pablo. Free speech is absolute. You either have it or you don't. You have my sympathies and my firm support.

I never thought the Spanish government would ever attempt to follow in my country's footsteps. Then again, Franco was only deposed in 1976 and Spain's experiment with real democracy has been far shorter. Maybe that would explain it.

This kind of thing happens in my country all the time except hardly anyone protests and nobody really cares. No massive demonstrations. No riots. Nothing. Here, people have been jailed for years on end for insulting Islam, insulting the monarchy, scandalizing the judiciary, and other such acts considered "seditious". Even swear words tend to be off-limits especially if directed at or used to describe certain people, especially ministers and other VVIPs.

People might say a few words, there might be a tiny, half-assed "protest" of about 100-200 people (even in response to something as shameful and outrageous as an elected government being toppled and replaced by an unelected government in a coup), the organizers of which would face charges of illegal assembly, and everyone would quickly move on with their lives while our leaders continue to get away with mismanaging our country and trampling on our rights with total impunity.

This is what one would call an illiberal democracy if one can even call it that because we're in the middle of a seven-month-long state of emergency that our corrupt Prime Minister called for that His Majesty the King approved and no one will dare say a word because challenging the state of emergency or the very existence of the current, unelected government is tantamount to insulting the monarchy. Parliament has been dissolved and our leaders now rule by decree. That's how much power we have allowed our leaders to have over us it's terrifying.

I have some choice words I really want to say about His Majesty, but I won't dare speak out even here despite my anonymity because that's how worried I am that the police might come knocking. I will never be half the man that Pablo Hasel is. I have far too much to lose. But make no mistake. I am seething inside as I write this.

Nothing short of a massive boiling over of public anger and frustration the likes of which Spain is currently experiencing will prevent us from reverting back into the kind of full-blown authoritarianism and political repression that we only just crawled out of three years ago.

Unlike us, Spaniards aren't prepared to be pushed around by their government because they cherish their democratic rights and liberties far more than we do. Like Thais but unlike Malaysians, Spaniards will take to the streets in sheer numbers because they refuse to take no for an answer. They will openly and loudly insult the monarchy, the state religion, and the judiciary in open defiance of the Public Security Law. They will gather in open defiance of coronavirus lockdown restrictions to make their voices heard, and they won't hesitate to employ a steady stream of four-letter words to get their message across. They will no doubt share countless memes and troll their detractors on social media, and they will dare the police to arrest them there and then.

We should learn from them instead of continuing to bow our heads in submission or due to some misguided sense of "respect" for one's elders and "superiors". If Malaysians were even remotely like these protesters, our leaders wouldn't be able to get away with even one-tenth of the kinds of high crimes and misdemeanors they've been allowed to get away with so far even in the middle of a deadly pandemic. They would be the ones cowering in fear for their careers, their reputations, and even their freedoms, not us. The government would fear us, not the other way around.

The monarchy, judiciary, and the state or majority religion should never be above ridicule be it in Spain or Malaysia. Pablo Hasel should be immediately released and unconditionally pardoned and this repressive Public Security Law should be abolished ASAP. Cancel culture, in this case, right-wing conservative cancel culture, has absolutely no place in any democracy whatsoever. Spanish people must not allow their country to devolve into another Malaysia. Young people must fight to defend what their parents' and grandparents' generation fought so hard to earn, especially freedom of speech and expression above all else.

Respect is a two-way street. Respect must be earned, not demanded. I have far more respect for Pablo and his fellow Spaniards than I do my fellow Malaysians for growing a pair of fucking balls and daring to revolt so openly and brazenly.

Viva Spain. Free Pablo Hasel. Revolution of our Times.
LIBERATE HONG KONG. REVOLUTION OF OUR TIMES. CCP DELENDA EST.
VIVE LE FRANCE. JE SUIS SAMUEL PATY. I STAND WITH EUROPE AND ISRAEL AGAINST RADICAL ISLAM.
ALL LIVES MATTER.
The case against communism (Dispatch) [WIP]
Definition of radical Islam

User avatar
Rusozak
Senator
 
Posts: 3781
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Rusozak » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:17 am

I know there's a "Pact of Forgetting" about the Francoist era to offer amnesty and let bygones be bygones, but perhaps that policy should be reexamined. Choosing to ignore a past of authoritarianism and suppression of freedom clearly hasn't helped teach the nation to not let it happen again.
Last edited by Rusozak on Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

User avatar
Strazhnist Tsarus
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 46
Founded: Sep 13, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Strazhnist Tsarus » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:16 am

Free speech, nothing less.
I don't even care what group he was glorifying, this is a sin.
~Factbook Directory~
qna
This nation is entirely in the Past Tense
1928 Tsarus, post-Strazhnist Revolution
4, 6, 8

User avatar
Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15503
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:36 am

Arisyan wrote:I was waiting for someone to start a thread on this. I noticed it when I had typed in Spain in the search bar, and this was on the headlines. I was gonna start a thread, but I didn't have enough information.

But yeah, I totally agree with the protestors and really hope the Spanish Government listens to them.


I was surprised it took this long myself, but it's been buried in a lot of places in the US.
Stand with Content Creators Like Me! Stand With The Union!
Plebiscite Plaza 2021
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Shrillland
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15503
Founded: Apr 12, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Shrillland » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:39 am

Dresderstan wrote:Speaking of Catalonia, seeing as it was mentioned, did we forget the regional election last week resulted in PSOE "winning" i.e. having the biggest increase and ending up with 33, the same as the ERC?


We didn't forget that, it's just that it didn't get too much mention. The separatists still have the majority, though.
Stand with Content Creators Like Me! Stand With The Union!
Plebiscite Plaza 2021
In 1963, Doctor Who taught us all we need to know about politics when a cave woman said, "Old men see no further than tomorrow's meat".

User avatar
Bienenhalde
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5734
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Bienenhalde » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:16 pm

I see nothing wrong with Spain's prosecution of Pablo Hasel. Inflammatory and outrageous statements like that do not contribute to healthy and civil public discourse and do not deserve to be defended.
Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=75.6&d=68.6&g=38.8&s=45.2
OOC:
[*]Age: 24 [*]Pennsylvania Dutch [*]ELCA Lutheran [*]Male [*]Bisexual - leaning towards gay [*]Independent [*]Sinophile-Japanophile [*]Monarchist [*]Has Asperger's

User avatar
Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2558
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:04 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:I see nothing wrong with Spain's prosecution of Pablo Hasel. Inflammatory and outrageous statements like that do not contribute to healthy and civil public discourse and do not deserve to be defended.

It’s one thing to prosecute someone for defending actions if violence and terrorism, another to prosecute them for saying mean things about the government.
21yo American male. Political beliefs lean classical liberal/libertarian. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
Minister
 
Posts: 3131
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:42 pm

Terrorist advocating sedition and separatism rightfully arrested

Anyone notice a trend in western countries where supporters of civil war losers cry about "free speech" a lot?
Not an adherent of Italian Fascism anymore, leaning more and more towards Falangist Syndicalism
Corporatism and Corporatocracy are completely different things
9axes
Pro: Falange, Command Economy, Class-Cooperation, Cultural Nationalism, Authoritarianism, Third Positionism, Border Security
Anti: Communism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Trump, Globalism, Racism, Democracy, Immigration

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13586
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:46 pm

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:Terrorist advocating sedition and separatism rightfully arrested

Anyone notice a trend in western countries where supporters of civil war losers cry about "free speech" a lot?
Those who are or were most threatened by a loss of free speech tend to be adherents of it, news at 11.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
PRO CAPITALISM
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Dec 16, 2020
Conservative Democracy

Postby PRO CAPITALISM » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:48 pm

Tbh he is right

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Senator
 
Posts: 4945
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:55 pm

If they'd simply arrested him for supporting a terrorist organization that would've been one thing.

But adding charges for insulting the king is some real Medieval shit.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Rocker & Metalhead ☆ Heretical Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀
Ես Արցախի կողքին եմ
Wanted Fugitive of the Chinese Communist Party

User avatar
6Pack
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Sep 11, 2020
Father Knows Best State

Postby 6Pack » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:58 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:If they'd simply arrested him for supporting a terrorist organization that would've been one thing.

But adding charges for insulting the king is some real Medieval shit.


And Juan Carlos isn't even king anymore - he abdicated after his financial dealings became too much of a liability for the continuation of the monarchy.

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Senator
 
Posts: 4945
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:00 pm

6Pack wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:If they'd simply arrested him for supporting a terrorist organization that would've been one thing.

But adding charges for insulting the king is some real Medieval shit.


And Juan Carlos isn't even king anymore - he abdicated after his financial dealings became too much of a liability for the continuation of the monarchy.


Christ that just makes it worse.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Rocker & Metalhead ☆ Heretical Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀
Ես Արցախի կողքին եմ
Wanted Fugitive of the Chinese Communist Party

User avatar
Major-Tom
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14485
Founded: Mar 09, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:43 pm

The Marlborough wrote:Considering he's a Catalan, I have no sympathy and honestly wouldn't care if he remains in prison.


Put that mask back on, jesus.
"We're flawed because we want so much. We're ruined because we get these things and wish for what we had."
Who is Tom?
Other Pertinent Factbooks

User avatar
Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2558
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:08 pm

The Marlborough wrote:Considering he's a Catalan, I have no sympathy and honestly wouldn't care if he remains in prison.

You’re just a wellspring of bad takes aren’t you?
21yo American male. Political beliefs lean classical liberal/libertarian. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

User avatar
Adamede
Minister
 
Posts: 2558
Founded: Jul 22, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Adamede » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:09 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:If they'd simply arrested him for supporting a terrorist organization that would've been one thing.

But adding charges for insulting the king is some real Medieval shit.

Ah but the king be chosen by God, yes sir! Who are we lowly peasants be to questioning the wisdom of the Heavenly Father in his choice of earthly representative?
21yo American male. Political beliefs lean classical liberal/libertarian. Like most everyone else my opinions are garbage.

Pro: Democracy, 1st & 2nd Amendments, Science, Conservation, Nuclear, universal healthcare, Equality regardless of race, creed, or sexual orientation.
Neutral : Feminism, anarchism
Anti: Left and Right wing authoritarianism, religious extremists & theocracy, monarchy, nanny & surveillance states

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Esalia, Great Pacific Switzerland, Kilobugya, Northern Socialist Council Republics, Senkaku, Sundiata, Valentine Z, Vassenor, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads