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Armenian Genocide Memorial Thread I

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Crabaiaia
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Armenian Genocide Memorial Thread I

Postby Crabaiaia » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:50 am

This is the thread for discussion and rememberance of the events of tension that happened between Armenian civilians and Ottoman troops in 1915. As well as discussions on alternate history on what could've happened if the genocide never happened.

The Armenian Genocide ABSOLUTELY happened. There is evidence of such with interviews of survivors and actual graphic photography of the events. Using the Khojaly Massacre of 1992 to justify denying the genocide is like denying the Holocaust because of what Israel did in the 1st and 2nd Infitadas, your countries are not as great as you think they are. Now shove that in your head otherwise you will be in my list of hated users
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Postby New Bradenia Ghost » Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:24 pm

What the Ottoman Turks had did with the Armenians is absolutely unforgivable and, if happened today, a violation of international law. The worse thing is that the Turks and Azerbaijanis deny this, they are completely unforgiving and never want to recognize this, they are unloyal allies to the West, they shouldn't be allies of the US, an ally of America would agree on a bad thing they have done (like the Germans with what they had done with the Jews in the holocaust), Armenia is much better. I hope Recep Erdogan and Ilham Aliyev know what they are doing or they will be overthrown. Never forget the genocide...

(I actually think that this just went to Anti-Turkish and Anti-Azerbaijani and not a memorial of the Armenian Genocide, and please mods, don't ban me due to me being like this)

(I decided to repost this because I thought it would be bad, but might as well keep it, I still know this is kind of Anti-Turkish and Anti-Azerbaijani and might get me banned, but it's my opinion, not anyone else's)
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:27 pm

Crabaiaia wrote:This is the thread for discussion and rememberance of the events of tension that happened between Armenian civilians and Ottoman troops in 1915. As well as discussions on alternate history on what could've happened if the genocide never happened.

The Armenian Genocide ABSOLUTELY happened. There is evidence of such with interviews of survivors and actual graphic photography of the events. Using the Khojaly Massacre of 1992 to justify denying the genocide is like denying the Holocaust because of what Israel did in the 1st and 2nd Infitadas, your countries are not as great as you think they are. Now shove that in your head otherwise you will be in my list of hated users

Yes, well, start discussing. Perhaps you could provide some sources, some of the divergent opinions, that sort of thing, here in the OP.
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:28 pm

I think that the government Turkey should formally apologize if they already haven't.
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:29 pm

Sundiata wrote:I think that the government Turkey should formally apologize if they already haven't.

That would require Erdogan leaving office for that to even be a possibility.
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:31 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I think that the government Turkey should formally apologize if they already haven't.

That would require Erdogan leaving office for that to even be a possibility.

Okay.
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:55 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I think that the government Turkey should formally apologize if they already haven't.

That would require Erdogan leaving office for that to even be a possibility.
Erdogan is a person who can accept the so-called Armenian genocide lie for his own interests. I think questioning is important for true enlightenment, so it shouldn't be said to exist or not. Unfortunately, in the Middle East, the so-called Armenian genocide is being used for politics, nobody takes responsibility. Armenia and Turkey work plan must be created by impartial historians. Unfortunately, this is not possible with political Islamists. If I tell the political Islamists this, I will be considered an Armenian nationalist. Just like Armenian Racists portray me as a Turkish racist
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Postby Alforria » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:00 pm

Why do you care? Genocides happen a dozen times a century. Why don't you talk about the genocides going on right now? Do you not care about the Rohingya, the Uighurs, Darfur? It's bad! All genocides are bad! Why should they get preferential treatment? How are they special? Governments are literally denying genocides RIGHT NOW. :blink:

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Postby Genivaria » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:12 pm

Alforria wrote:Why do you care? Genocides happen a dozen times a century. Why don't you talk about the genocides going on right now? Do you not care about the Rohingya, the Uighurs, Darfur? It's bad! All genocides are bad! Why should they get preferential treatment? How are they special? Governments are literally denying genocides RIGHT NOW. :blink:

We did it folks, we actually found the most absurd extreme of 'All Lives Matter'.
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Postby Great Pacific Switzerland » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:44 am

Lest we forget what happened on the 24th of April.

Turkish ultranationalists, consider this, fuck off.
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Postby Shu Chengdu » Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:54 am

Genivaria wrote:
Alforria wrote:Why do you care? Genocides happen a dozen times a century. Why don't you talk about the genocides going on right now? Do you not care about the Rohingya, the Uighurs, Darfur? It's bad! All genocides are bad! Why should they get preferential treatment? How are they special? Governments are literally denying genocides RIGHT NOW. :blink:

We did it folks, we actually found the most absurd extreme of 'All Lives Matter'.


While they all do the latter individual is simply attempting to dilute the waters with cynicism to deflect the issue/instance in question.
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Postby Heloin » Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:04 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:That would require Erdogan leaving office for that to even be a possibility.
Erdogan is a person who can accept the so-called Armenian genocide lie for his own interests. I think questioning is important for true enlightenment, so it shouldn't be said to exist or not. Unfortunately, in the Middle East, the so-called Armenian genocide is being used for politics, nobody takes responsibility. Armenia and Turkey work plan must be created by impartial historians. Unfortunately, this is not possible with political Islamists. If I tell the political Islamists this, I will be considered an Armenian nationalist.

That you call it the "so-called Armenian Genocide" shows that you have no interest in looking at the Armenian, Pontic, or Assyrian Genocides in any critical way since they are all genocides committed willingly and actively by the Ottoman Empire and Turkey. Turkey can admit there was a genocide that their country was a part of or live in denial, there is no compromise to be made except the cries of apologists and deniers who would rather the world forget their country exterminated an entire people from their land.

Just like Armenian Racists portray me as a Turkish racist

"Armenian racists" don't portray you as a Turkish racist, you do that yourself with a complete lack of empathy towards people if they're not Turkish or willing to support Turkish territorial ambitions into other people's countries.
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Postby Pope Saint Peter the Apostle » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:15 am

Benny Morris and Dror Ze'evi wrote a book titled The Thirty-Year Genocide: Turkey’s Destruction of Its Christian Minorities, 1894–1924, which frames the Armenian Genocide as part of a broader thirty-year campaign by the Ottoman Empire to destroy its Christian populations. I haven't read it (yet). Has someone here, perhaps?
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:28 am

Pope Saint Peter the Apostle wrote:Benny Morris and Dror Ze'evi wrote a book titled The Thirty-Year Genocide: Turkey’s Destruction of Its Christian Minorities, 1894–1924, which frames the Armenian Genocide as part of a broader thirty-year campaign by the Ottoman Empire to destroy its Christian populations. I haven't read it (yet). Has someone here, perhaps?


Considering how Turkey treats the Kurds and how at times it has treated the Arabs, I would argue the genocides were motivated by ethnicity and not religion. Those people could have all converted to Islam and I'm sure Turkey would still find a way to view them as a fifth column.
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Postby Outer Bratorke » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:48 am

It's astounding to see the lengths people will go to deny reality. It it is estimated around 1 million Armenians were killed in the genocide. For the genocide to be false, that means millions of people worked together, in perfect unison, to create a false narrative. Do these idiots have any idea how hard it is to have a small group of people to work together? The idea that millions of people could is laughable.

That is just the logical problem with the Armenian Genocide Denial. We have pictures,eye witness testimonies(both from survivors of the genocide and from 3rd party observers), physical evidence of mass killings, the list goes on.

What we need to do is keep putting pressure of Turkey, so that young Turks will start looking into it for themselves. Hopefully then a reckoning will come.
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Postby Roegerland » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:54 am

Outer Bratorke wrote:What we need to do is keep putting pressure of Turkey, so that young Turks will start looking into it for themselves. Hopefully then a reckoning will come.


Perhaps unavoidable but not the best wording there. In any case I totally agree.
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:05 am

Alforria wrote:Why do you care? Genocides happen a dozen times a century. Why don't you talk about the genocides going on right now? Do you not care about the Rohingya, the Uighurs, Darfur? It's bad! All genocides are bad! Why should they get preferential treatment? How are they special? Governments are literally denying genocides RIGHT NOW. :blink:

What a pathetic attempt to deflect attention from Turkey's genocide denial.
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:07 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:That would require Erdogan leaving office for that to even be a possibility.
Just like Armenian Racists portray me as a Turkish racist

You used the phrase "so-called Armenian genocide lie". So you engage in denying the Armenian genocide. Are you not a Turkish racist then?
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Postby The united American-Isreali empire » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:09 am

i rember hearding about this, it was tragic.

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Postby Pope Saint Peter the Apostle » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:10 am

Also, there is a very interesting similarity between the “Jewish Question” and the “Armenian Question.” One of them is that both were depicted as evil bankers/financiers by the regimes that would go on to commit a genocide against them.
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Armenian Genocide: What Happened, and Why do Turks Deny it?

Postby Insaanistan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:10 am

In the time leading up to the Armenian Genocide, the Ottoman Empire has seen a wave of Turkish Nationalism. With the outbreak of WWI, the Turks found themselves, a majority Muslim Empire, against several Christian European empires. On such empire was the Russian Empire. The Ottomans has gone head to head with them many times with very mixed results, and would see the Russians invade them in the Northeast. And who did they accuse of betraying he Empire to the Russians? The Armenians. Most Armenians are Orthodox Christians, and at times they suffered under the Ottoman Empire. While many of them did support a Russian takeover, it is a false statement to claim they really tried to overthrow the Ottomans, and they were used as a scapegoat for the fact the Empire was losing ground in the region. I no doubt not need to go into how many died in the brutal genocide.

So why does Turkey deny it, and why do some claim it wasn’t a genocide? For starters, Turkey acknowledges SOMETHING happened, but their numbers are much more conservative and they avoid using the word “genocide”. First of all, it must be acknowledged that Armenians weren’t the only victims: Assyrians and even some Kurds also were targeted. Additionally, angry at the Turks, Armenian Christians would attack the Hemşinliler, Armenian Muslims, viewing their conversions to Islam, coerced or of their own free will, over the centuries as siding with the Turks. Turks also take issue with the fact it is pinned on them: Turkey is a relatively new state founded from the remnants of he Ottoman Empire. It’s not a continuation of said empire, and many Turks question why they should have to answer for that empire’s actions. Many are also upset people focus of the genocide and not on the fact that for much of its history, the Ottoman Empire was essentially the good guy of Europe. When Jews were expelled from Spain, Mehmed-i-Feth sent a ship all the way to Spain to bring them safely into the Empire. According to some counts, 1/4 of Turks have parentage from outside the Empire, from the Ottoman’s long history of taking in refugees from oppression in Europe: some Turkic and/or Muslim, others not. That has continued even to Turkey, with many in Turkey having parents who fled the USSR. Most Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian Muslims live in Turkey rather than their homelands.

If we want Turkey to be more open to admitting it was a genocide, we should acknowledge the complexity of what happened and its surrounding context, acknowledged Turkey is not the Ottoman Empire (too bad for you, political “Islamists”), and and educate ourselves and each other on the full Ottoman history, the one of the beacon of hope in Europe, a defender of the Eastern World, a center of knowledge and tolerance, and one of the largest empires in history; far different from the “sick man of Europe” who committed a genocide it is more often portrayed as in the West.
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Postby The Alma Mater » Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:10 am

Alforria wrote:Why do you care? Genocides happen a dozen times a century. Why don't you talk about the genocides going on right now? Do you not care about the Rohingya, the Uighurs, Darfur? It's bad! All genocides are bad! Why should they get preferential treatment? How are they special? Governments are literally denying genocides RIGHT NOW. :blink:


Oh, but we do talk about them.

This however was the first event officially called a genocide. Not the first in history, not y a long shot, but the first to which the word was attached.
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Postby Roegerland » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:22 am

Insaanistan wrote:far different from the “sick man of Europe” who committed a genocide it is more often portrayed as in the West.


This is exactly how it was at the time though... I've got no interest in glamming up Turkey or the Ottomans, what's the point? To woo them into admission?
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Postby Insaanistan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:29 am

Roegerland wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:far different from the “sick man of Europe” who committed a genocide it is more often portrayed as in the West.


This is exactly how it was at the time though... I've got no interest in glamming up Turkey or the Ottomans, what's the point? To woo them into admission?

I was trying to say that it has a history before and beyond “the sick man of Europe” stage. However, were it not for the Arab revolts, the Ottomans very well could have survived the war, though likely soon would have collapsed, anyway. As I once put it “the Ottoman Empire wasn’t a sick man, it had severe allergies and just needed to step from the flowers.”
They repelled the British at Gallipoli, and could have stayed alive by giving the Russians Armenia, or by simply waiting until the Russian collapse.
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Postby Luziyca » Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:04 am

As much as I hope the Turkish government will at the bare minimum apologize to Armenia and Armenians for the genocide, given that genocide denial is as ingrained into Turkish culture as football is in American culture, I doubt Turkey will ever apologize for the genocide.
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