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The New Glass Ceiling or Due Progress?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Opinion?

Biden should’ve let this go up for vote.
58
56%
I support Biden’s executive action on this.
45
44%
 
Total votes : 103

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Nejii
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The New Glass Ceiling or Due Progress?

Postby Nejii » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:42 pm

Image

”Joe Biden’s first day began the end of girls’ sports.”
-Abigail Shrier



Wall Street Journal Opinion Piece

New York Post Opinion Piece

Washington Times Opinion Piece


ADDED SOURCES

WhiteHouse.gov

Newsweek





Despite his inaugural speech’s theme being about peace and unity, Biden seems to have lain an egg with a new executive order that he has pushed through allowing transgender women and biological males (whom identify as female) to participate in women’s/girls sports. #BidenErasedWomen and #TERFS is trending on social media. According to the New York Post, this is Biden’s way of “signaling the left-wing”.

It can be argued that this should have been sent to the floor rather than pushed through as an executive order. The New York Post saying “if such foolish moves foreshadow what’s to come, forget about ‘unity’.” This has been a hot button issue for years now, as one can can find many controversies in past news regarding transgenders and biological males partaking in women’s sports.

This executive action I will say was a bold one I will say that it should have been sent to the senate floor. While I’m not offering my personal take on the issue of transgenders partaking in female sports, I do maintain that I think this should have been voted on. Why? Because it’s a hot button issue and because of how societally impactful it is.

What say you NS?
Last edited by Nejii on Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:08 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:47 pm

Nejii wrote:Despite his inaugural speech’s theme being about peace and unity, Biden seems to have lain an egg with a new executive order that he has pushed through allowing transgender women and biological males (whom identify as female) to participate in women’s/girls sports. #BidenErasedWomen and #TERFS is trending on social media. According to the New York Post, this is Biden’s way of “signaling the left-wing”.


We shouldn't bother to cater to the regressive types of people who believe that trans women are anything less than women.

I don't like Biden, I've made that clear over the last year or so, but I've gotta give him credit where he's done something right and just: ensure that America is a land of the free where our citizens can enjoy equality. If he continues expanding on that, godspeed.
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:48 pm

Sounds like Venezuela

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:49 pm

Nejii wrote:The New York Post saying “if such foolish moves foreshadow what’s to come, forget about ‘unity’.”

Oh my God, the editorial board of such a hallowed journalistic institution as the New York Post doesn't think Biden is adequately committed to some abstract reconciliation with the putschists who tried to have his Congressional colleagues torn to pieces by a mob? Well, that's some really heavy food for thought, if I were in the White House this would make me reconsider not just this EO but my whole approach to governance!

Nejii wrote:This executive action I will say was a bold one, and while not voicing my own opinion on this issue via the OP, I will say that it should have been sent to the senate floor. What say you NS?

I say voicing your opinion on the issue via the OP is how things are typically done, and that you shouldn't have made a thread about a topic if you weren't willing to openly state your thoughts on it.
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:49 pm

Nejii wrote:
(Image)

”Joe Biden’s first day began the end of girls’ sports.”
-Abigail Shrier




Very funny.


The sources you linked are well known for their inaccurate or completely hateful articles published under the thin veil of "opinion columns".

Nejii wrote: Despite his inaugural speech’s theme being about peace and unity, Biden seems to have lain an egg with a new executive order that he has pushed through allowing transgender women and biological males (whom identify as female) to participate in women’s/girls sports.


Is allowing people to identify as their desired gender not something that is bringing peace and unity to a long oppressed group?

Nejii wrote: #BidenErasedWomen and #TERFS is trending on social media. According to the New York Post, this is Biden’s way of “signaling the left-wing”.


As someone who supports feminist ideals, I can say with confidence TERF has done more to bash transgender community members than actually push forward anything useful for people identifying as female. Also, citing the New York Post is your mistake.

Nejii wrote:It can be argued that this should have been sent to the senate floor rather than pushed through as an executive order. The New York Post saying “if such foolish moves foreshadow what’s to come, forget about ‘unity’.” This has been a hot button issue for years now, as one can can find many controversies in past news regarding transgenders and biological males partaking in women’s sports.

This executive action I will say was a bold one, and while not voicing my own opinion on this issue via the OP, I will say that it should have been sent to the senate floor. What say you NS?


I say you should change your title because it's currently meaningless (where's the "new" glass ceiling?) and use better sources to begin with. And though you've said you don't intend to voice your own opinion, I think you've made quite clear how you think starting with your first ridiculous quote about how women's sports are "dying".
Last edited by Sanghyeok on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:50 pm

Yeah who knew catering to Twitter profiles would lead to stupid decisions.
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Nejii
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Postby Nejii » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:50 pm

Kannap wrote:
Nejii wrote:Despite his inaugural speech’s theme being about peace and unity, Biden seems to have lain an egg with a new executive order that he has pushed through allowing transgender women and biological males (whom identify as female) to participate in women’s/girls sports. #BidenErasedWomen and #TERFS is trending on social media. According to the New York Post, this is Biden’s way of “signaling the left-wing”.


We shouldn't bother to cater to the regressive types of people who believe that trans women are anything less than women.

I don't like Biden, I've made that clear over the last year or so, but I've gotta give him credit where he's done something right and just: ensure that America is a land of the free where our citizens can enjoy equality. If he continues expanding on that, godspeed.


Typically the argument against this is along the lines of “biological men being stronger than women.” Though I do see the direction from whence your coming from.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:51 pm

I don't foresee this being anything close to the 'end of women's sports'. If we're to accept transwomen as women, I don't really see how we can justify barring them from women's sports.

I guess they can look at it again if there's a weird epidemic of all women's sports being dominated by trans people, but that seems highly unlikely to me.

Upsetting TERFs isn't really something to be worried about though.

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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:52 pm

I was wondering if this would get its own thread.

On this subject, my own opinions regarding it are mixed, although I can understand why people would dislike having transwomen participate in women's sports.

The misandry and transphobia* I've heard from TERFs on this topic though, like with everything I hear from them really, is way over the top.

*Weird term, transphobia. Always evokes an impression in my mind of someone fearing transgenders rather than hating them.
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Boris Cult » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:52 pm

I believe Biden was in the right. Transwomen are women
Last edited by Boris Cult on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:52 pm

Albrenia wrote:I don't foresee this being anything close to the 'end of women's sports'. If we're to accept transwomen as women, I don't really see how we can justify barring them from women's sports.

I guess they can look at it again if there's a weird epidemic of all women's sports being dominated by trans people, but that seems highly unlikely to me.

Upsetting TERFs isn't really something to be worried about though.


I would argue upsetting TERFs is something to be proud of, really, like just upsetting fascists and racists.
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:54 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Albrenia wrote:I don't foresee this being anything close to the 'end of women's sports'. If we're to accept transwomen as women, I don't really see how we can justify barring them from women's sports.

I guess they can look at it again if there's a weird epidemic of all women's sports being dominated by trans people, but that seems highly unlikely to me.

Upsetting TERFs isn't really something to be worried about though.


I would argue upsetting TERFs is something to be proud of, really, like just upsetting fascists and racists.

Exactly. Anything to own the feminazis.

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Nejii
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Postby Nejii » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:54 pm

JUST TO CLARIFY, I’m only against him putting this through as an executive action. I just personally feel like it should have been put to vote. I’ve never been one for executive actions regardless of the President.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:54 pm

Nejii wrote:
Kannap wrote:
We shouldn't bother to cater to the regressive types of people who believe that trans women are anything less than women.

I don't like Biden, I've made that clear over the last year or so, but I've gotta give him credit where he's done something right and just: ensure that America is a land of the free where our citizens can enjoy equality. If he continues expanding on that, godspeed.


Typically the argument against this is along the lines of “biological men being stronger than women.” Though I do see the direction from whence your coming from.

We've already seen how this absurd line of thinking leads to cis women like Casper Semenya being told they literally are not allowed to compete as women, something that would never have happened had a bunch of transphobic cis people not imagined this problem and made the whole situation worse by trying to "solve" it. Maybe it's time to just let people enjoy sports the way they want to, without our entire society needing to decide if it seems fair enough to the rest of us or is acceptable to our aesthetic preferences.
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Elsa De Arendelle
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Postby Elsa De Arendelle » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:55 pm

They've asked for it, and now they're going to get it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. This is wonderful news. God has sent President Biden to show us the correct path, indirectly.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:56 pm

How can yall say transgender women don’t have an advantage when they be smashing all the records and stuff

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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:57 pm

Trans women are female. Studies on trans athletes have consistently shown no advantages (for example), especially when they are medically transitioning on hormone therapy. Since 2004, Trans people are allowed to compete in the olympics as their real gender, and no openly trans athlete has won a medal ever. It makes more sense to let trans people be with their real gender, not their assigned at birth gender. Like "no men in women's spaces" but if you used birth gender as the basis, you would let that happen by making trans men compete with women.

The end goal of terfs and anti-trans people in sport is to not let trans people exist in public spheres.

And also my rights shouldn't be a debate— besides the Supreme Court had already settled it and ruled in favor of the interpretation that sex based discrimination already includes transgender people. Joe Biden did not create any new laws with this EO, he just reaffirmed the law of the land, based on the rulings and interpretation of the federal courts of United States. The US legal system has primarily established negative rights rather than positive rights. Sex discrimination laws have been crafted to uphold the negative right of freedom from discrimination rather than a freedom to something. Title IX doesn't guarantee things but rather recourse from discrimination on a protected class, in this case, sex, and by extension gender identity and sexual orientation.

Rights for trans people, especially trans women, do not take away anything from women's rights, but rather add to it. It doesn't matter how or why someone is a woman, if they say they're a woman and live as a woman, then that person is indeed a woman. Reducing women to biological traits, which can vary a lot, frankly, strikes me as sexist and at odds with many feminist goals and aims.
Last edited by Auzkhia on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:59 pm

Nejii wrote:
Kannap wrote:
We shouldn't bother to cater to the regressive types of people who believe that trans women are anything less than women.

I don't like Biden, I've made that clear over the last year or so, but I've gotta give him credit where he's done something right and just: ensure that America is a land of the free where our citizens can enjoy equality. If he continues expanding on that, godspeed.


Typically the argument against this is along the lines of “biological men being stronger than women.” Though I do see the direction from whence your coming from.


And since trans women aren't dominating women's sports at a widespread scale, that argument is bullshit.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:59 pm

Odreria wrote:How can yall say transgender women don’t have an advantage when they be smashing all the records and stuff


I think them having an advantage or not is rather beside the point. They shouldn't ban tall people from basketball just because they have an advantage in it.

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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:00 pm

Nejii wrote:JUST TO CLARIFY, I’m only against him putting this through as an executive action. I just personally feel like it should have been put to vote. I’ve never been one for executive actions regardless of the President.

There've been a lot of EOs, though, and this is the one you made a thread about, with an OP that links to fearmongering op-eds in three notably transphobic publications, so I think we can all do the math ourselves on where your views are lol
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Nejii
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Postby Nejii » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:01 pm

Two additional sources provided to the OP. Though I’m sure the integrity of whitehouse.gov and Newsweek is questionable. :p (I say jokingly.)
Last edited by Nejii on Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:01 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Odreria wrote:How can yall say transgender women don’t have an advantage when they be smashing all the records and stuff


I think them having an advantage or not is rather beside the point. They shouldn't ban tall people from basketball just because they have an advantage in it.

Hypothetically speaking, if the top women’s college basketball and soccer teams became about ninety percent transgender, would it still not be an issue?

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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:03 pm

Albrenia wrote:
Odreria wrote:How can yall say transgender women don’t have an advantage when they be smashing all the records and stuff


I think them having an advantage or not is rather beside the point. They shouldn't ban tall people from basketball just because they have an advantage in it.

Exactly. It's about not letting trans people live as themselves out in the public.

Like, it's a ruse to discourage the inherent challenge being transgender poses to the cis-normative gender hierarchies in society. If that society sees trans people as deviant, then there must be consequences to enforce the sex-gender system. It's not about "fairness in sports" or bathrooms, it's about control and imposing an unjust order.

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Nejii
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Postby Nejii » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:03 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Nejii wrote:JUST TO CLARIFY, I’m only against him putting this through as an executive action. I just personally feel like it should have been put to vote. I’ve never been one for executive actions regardless of the President.

There've been a lot of EOs, though, and this is the one you made a thread about, with an OP that links to fearmongering op-eds in three notably transphobic publications, so I think we can all do the math ourselves on where your views are lol


Actually I just grabbed the first three I saw, and just added two more. Don’t jab at me because the first articles to pop up are conflicting with your outlook.

As for my choice in EO, I like debate and hot button discussion, and this smelled of both.
Last edited by Nejii on Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:04 pm

Nejii wrote:
Senkaku wrote:There've been a lot of EOs, though, and this is the one you made a thread about, with an OP that links to fearmongering op-eds in three notably transphobic publications, so I think we can all do the math ourselves on where your views are lol


Actually I just grabbed the first three I saw, and just added two more. Don’t jab at me because the first articles to pop up are conflicting with your outlook.


So did you add that ridiculous quote for pleasure or for business?
万国の労働者よ、団結せよ!
大プロレタリアート魔法革命万 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も、その眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister

Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favourite things

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