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[R] Ignore gloating in American politics

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
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Glorious Hong Kong
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[R] Ignore gloating in American politics

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:22 pm

Kowani wrote:just for today, people
ignore Freihart Reich
please


Ignore gloating.

Celritannia wrote:
Kowani wrote:just for today, people
ignore Freihart Reich
please


Who?


Dogpiling.

The Black Forrest wrote:
Kowani wrote:just for today, people
ignore Freihart Reich
please


Seconded.


More dogpiling.
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Tranzoria
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Postby Tranzoria » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:25 pm

-Astoria- wrote:
Kowani wrote:just for today, people
ignore Freihart Reich
please

I do not know who you are talking about.

Dogpiling
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:45 pm

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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:55 pm

I wish to appeal this.

Firstly, yes it was an attempt at a joke.
But secondly, it was ignoring Freihart Reich due to his continuous threadjacking and straw manning the thread.

So how can it be dogpiling or even flaming when it is agreeing (crudely on my part) to ensure the thread did not diverge into threadjacking and be, primarily, a debating ground for Freihart Reich?

I'd also like to ask, where in the rules it states ignore gloating is wrong, especially when there have been countless times people have stated "I have put X on my ignore list just now".
Last edited by Celritannia on Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:03 pm

Celritannia wrote:I wish to appeal this.

Firstly, yes it was an attempt at a joke.
But secondly, it was ignoring Freihart Reich due to his continues threadjacking and straw manning the thread.

So how can it be dogpiling or even flaming when it is agreeing (crudely on my part) to ensure the thread did not diverge into threadjacking and be, primarily, a debating ground for Freihart Reich?

I'd also like to ask, where in the rules it states ignore gloating is wrong, especially when there have been countless times people have stated "I have put X on my ignore list just now".

I'll get you a second opinion but hear me out: jokes in an all-text interface are very tricky. If someone is thread-jacking, report them, don't go around tell people to ignore them. You can do a one-off "I put X on ignore" but piling on to a flame doesn't wash.
Wash Your Damned Hands!

Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:09 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Celritannia wrote:I wish to appeal this.

Firstly, yes it was an attempt at a joke.
But secondly, it was ignoring Freihart Reich due to his continues threadjacking and straw manning the thread.

So how can it be dogpiling or even flaming when it is agreeing (crudely on my part) to ensure the thread did not diverge into threadjacking and be, primarily, a debating ground for Freihart Reich?

I'd also like to ask, where in the rules it states ignore gloating is wrong, especially when there have been countless times people have stated "I have put X on my ignore list just now".

I'll get you a second opinion but hear me out: jokes in an all-text interface are very tricky. If someone is thread-jacking, report them, don't go around tell people to ignore them. You can do a one-off "I put X on ignore" but piling on to a flame doesn't wash.


Ok. how is agreeing one should ignore FR’s repeated attempts of threadjacks for a day a flame?
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New Visayan Islands
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:30 pm

Celritannia, The Black Forrest: Farn took your respective histories into account when deciding on an appropriate response. FR's attempts at threadjacking are no license to gang up on him, and you can expect us to maintain the same standard should the situation be reversed.

Your respective warnings stand.


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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:47 pm

Yeah, I'm also gonna have to appeal this.

Posters have told people to ignore others, or things to a similar effect for-a while now, really, examples of it abound across multiple posters and threads. In several cases, mods were participating in those very threads-literally just pages away. And not even an informal "knock it off" was levied, much less any sort of formal action. There's absolutely no precedent of any kind to indicate that telling people not to respond to others-at least within appropriate situational context and tone-was actionable in the slightest.
In fact, searching "ignore" as a topic title within the moderation forum finds that this report is quite literally the first time this offense has been reported by anyone in all of NS history.
There's just literally nothing to suggest that this has ever been found an offense or actionable.


For that matter, none of what anyone did actually constitutes a violation of Ignore Gloating as listed in the OSRS: "IGNORE gloating, is typically seen in the roleplay forums, though it can appear elsewhere. Politely informing another nation that you are henceforth using the "ignore" feature is acceptable, but repeating it in different threads or over long periods is considered gloating and will be dealt with appropriately."

And a look at precedent shows that this is held. A simple search through the moderation forum of the term "ignore gloating" finds every case to have complied with either that definition, or repeatedly responding to a poster one has on ignore. (With one exception, which was part of a larger trend of flaming, in which the poster called another one "insane" in the very post.
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:58 am

Following Kowani's appeal, I'm going to broaden this to a broader internal moderation discussion of the appeals given the number of posters involved, and the appeal that's come in after a second opinion was offered.

This will, I regret, mean a delay to responding to the appeals, but I think it's the fairest way forward.

This should not be seen as establishing a precedent; it's an ad hoc response to an individual case.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:09 am

Okay!
Thanks, Arch
read your own damn sources
Bahia Roja wrote:I think Kowani shared that news a few hours ago.
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Headline of the day: World emissions-cutting pledges too low again
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The Black Forrest
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Postby The Black Forrest » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:00 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:Just a quick note that we haven't forgotten this; I hope we can offer a final ruling tomorrow (the 23rd).


No worries Arch. Take as much time as needed......

thanks
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* There is actually a War on Christmas. But Christmas started it, with it's unparalleled aggression against the Thanksgiving Holiday, and now Christmas has seized much Lebensraum in November, and are pushing into October. The rest of us seek to repel these invaders, and push them back to the status quo ante bellum Black Friday border. -Trotskylvania
* Silence Is Golden But Duct Tape Is Silver.
* I felt like Ayn Rand cornered me at a party, and three minutes in I found my first objection to what she was saying, but she kept talking without interruption for ten more days. - Max Barry talking about Atlas Shrugged

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:05 am

We are granting the formal appeal from Kowani.

Kowani, Celritannia, the Black Forrest, and -Astoria- will have the warnings removed from their records.

Two quick points here, one from the moderation team relating to this specific case and one from me personally addressing a broader point.

1) From the moderation team: Just because we're granting this appeal doesn't mean we think that everyone has behaved appropriately here. It only recognises that, on review, we don't think the original reported post constituted flaming, nor do we think the subsequent activity constituted dogpiling as usually constituted. That said, if you think someone is threadjacking, and don't want others to contribute to the threadjack, the appropriate course of action is to report it in moderation rather than to take moderation into your own hands and tell people to ignore someone for the day and/or agree with doing so with a side order of minor snark thrown in.

2) From a personal perspective: Posters in Moderation, both players and moderators, are increasingly muddying the grounds between informally asking for a second opinion and formally appealing a ruling. I would stress that we're under no formal obligation to offer a second opinion; we are under a formal obligation to review an appeal. This can inadvertently complicate moderation. I would advise all players and my fellow moderators to stress 'appeal' rather than 'second opinion' when either requesting a review or handing out a decision. This will help clarity on both sides.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am

So is telling people to put somebody on ignore allowed, or is it not allowed

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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am

Odreria wrote:So is telling people to put somebody on ignore allowed, or is it not allowed


It's the type of situation that will be examined on its individual merits on a case by case basis.

This specific case, however, while not unproblematic, did not involve flaming. As such, the warnings for flaming have been overturned on appeal.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am

eiiiiiiiiii

thanks, mods

um
what exactly is the difference between a second opinion and an appeal?
read your own damn sources
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:41 am

Kowani wrote:what exactly is the difference between a second opinion and an appeal?


Clarity of language.

I would advise always using the word 'appeal' rather than the phrase 'second opinion'.

This helps to make it abundantly clear what's being asked for and/or given.

This applies equally to my fellow moderators as to the player base.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:50 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Kowani wrote:what exactly is the difference between a second opinion and an appeal?


Clarity of language.

I would advise always using the word 'appeal' rather than the phrase 'second opinion'.

This helps to make it abundantly clear what's being asked for and/or given.

This applies equally to my fellow moderators as to the player base.

okay!
read your own damn sources
Bahia Roja wrote:I think Kowani shared that news a few hours ago.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: World emissions-cutting pledges too low again
“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”

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Glorious Hong Kong
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Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Sat Jan 23, 2021 6:55 am

Thanks for taking a look Arch!
LIBERATE HONG KONG. REVOLUTION OF OUR TIMES. CCP DELENDA EST.
VIVE LE FRANCE. JE SUIS SAMUEL PATY. I STAND WITH EUROPE AND ISRAEL AGAINST RADICAL ISLAM.
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:15 am

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Death advocacy.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:06 pm

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Tyrants are illegitimate by default. They belong at the gallows, not in office.
Death advocacy.

No.

Thread locked.
Wash Your Damned Hands!

Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo


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