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0.05% cut off for viewing stats is harsh for extreme nations

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Ransium
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0.05% cut off for viewing stats is harsh for extreme nations

Postby Ransium » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:43 am

The 0.05% cut off for viewing stats (any stat changes with less than 0.05% impact on the overall stats are not visible when the stat changes are shown after an issue choice is made), as [v] explained it to me a while ago, was designed to prevent early nations from being overwhelmed by tons of very small changes in stats from second and tertiary effects of issues choices, and fair enough. However, for nations who have been piling on stats changes for years, this has the unintended consequence of not being able to see stats changes on issues for stat categories we have taken in very extreme directions (and likely are most concerned with). For example, I can no longer see weather changes less than or equal to two weather points, which, if I had to guess, accounts for something like 90% of all weather changes. I'm approaching a similar state with health and environmental beauty where the changes from issues that have primary impacts to this categories will not be visible to me when I make an issue choice, except in the most extreme changes. This isn't great and makes me very reliant on third party tools to understand that actual issue impact. Perhaps stats changes could be visible if they are greater than 0.05% of the total or they meet some minimum absolute threshold indictive that it is a primary effect?
Last edited by Ransium on Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:47 am

Yes, I agree and concur to this. I too would like to see smaller changes, or at least give us an option so that others won't be overwhelmed by it, while some of us can still appreciate the small changes.

Going back to what I have said on another thread:
Valentine Z wrote:I'm not sure if this is relevant or still works, but it is of note that there are indeed small deltas that are hidden on the issue outcomes page. So I found two ways to this:

This was from a long while back using Stately. The smaller percentage changes are shown, and it's been confirmed by the Dev as a feature.

The HDI call. In particular, Lifespan and HDI have a lot of decimal places and if you kept on creeping down/up by 0.01 points, it won't show in the outcomes page, BUT you can do an API call before making a decision, then refresh again to see the small changes, if that is the sort of thing you like. ^^

e.g. With the next issue decision, my HDI could change from 99.7651145591965 to 99.7681145591965, and it would still show 99.77 on the stats.

I would genuinely love to see smaller changes being shown and displayed. Maybe minus the many, many decimal places of HDI, that was too much. Maybeee 3 decimal places.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Jar Wattinree
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Postby Jar Wattinree » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:28 am

Now this is a concern I share, as a few of my mini-maxing efforts are starting to approach that area where the stats show no real change.
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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:23 pm

If you have the show more stats enabled this should be displayed as well.
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Vivolkha
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Postby Vivolkha » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:27 pm

I think the problem here is that the cut-off is a relative percentage. What if it was a certain fixed value instead?
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The Unified Missourtama States
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Postby The Unified Missourtama States » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:30 pm

Vivolkha wrote:I think the problem here is that the cut-off is a relative percentage. What if it was a certain fixed value instead?

That would need to be decided for each stat, as they move in different increments. I think letting people seeing even the smallest of changes is fine, it can already be done through the API. To prevent new players from being confused, just add a time cooldown for stat complexing.
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Vivolkha
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Postby Vivolkha » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:50 pm

The Unified Missourtama States wrote:
Vivolkha wrote:I think the problem here is that the cut-off is a relative percentage. What if it was a certain fixed value instead?

That would need to be decided for each stat, as they move in different increments. I think letting people seeing even the smallest of changes is fine, it can already be done through the API. To prevent new players from being confused, just add a time cooldown for stat complexing.

Just make it a toggle on/off in Settings like the "see more stats" option.
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:01 pm

As an addendum, I wanted to show and prove that Stately still has the precise outcomes like I have shared in my post up there. Alas, given the possible lack of updates, I cannot log into any of my nations using the app.

But yes, the app does show more stats by default and it's actually very nice for me. ^^


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Land Without Shrimp
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Postby Land Without Shrimp » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:39 am

I don't think this is something I need quite yet, but I just wanted to chime in with support for this one. It'd be a great toggle to have. (hopefully someday I'll reach the point where this is meaningful for me!)

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Ransium
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Postby Ransium » Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:51 am

If possible I would love to hear if admin has any thoughts on this. It’s a little thing but maybe it would not be too difficult of a fix?

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Eluvatar
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Postby Eluvatar » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:26 pm

The easiest fix could be to use the (or a fictional) median nation's stats instead of your own for the denominator. Or perhaps use both, and display if either meets the threshold. Would that work?
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Ransium
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ransium » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:05 pm

Eluvatar wrote:The easiest fix could be to use the (or a fictional) median nation's stats instead of your own for the denominator. Or perhaps use both, and display if either meets the threshold. Would that work?


Yes, I think this solution would work, thanks.

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Flanderlion
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Postby Flanderlion » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:30 pm

Eluvatar wrote:The easiest fix could be to use the (or a fictional) median nation's stats instead of your own for the denominator. Or perhaps use both, and display if either meets the threshold. Would that work?

Both if possible/easy, thank you very much in advance.
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