Is chivalry good

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

No but theology informs our opinions on chivalry.

Since we no longer live in the 7th Century, taking life advice from your magical sky friend that supposedly exists may not be the best of ideas.

[Adamede]

Any interpretation I may assign to Peter is irrelevant. This is not a theology thread.

No but theology informs our opinions on chivalry.

And chivalry comes form a theology that thought that all Muslims should either be killed or forcefully converted to the "true" faith.

[Saint Yosx]

There is literally nothing wrong with . Women struggle with some things naturally while men struggle with other things. Even though I put myself on the left, it's ridiculous how some feminists forget that men struggle with many things as well, like the only reason why the wage gap exists is because men aren't given paid time off to take care of their children when their born.

[Insaanistan]

No but theology informs our opinions on chivalry.

Since we no longer live in the 7th Century, taking life advice from your magical sky friend that supposedly exists may not be the best of ideas.

Magical sky friend says men and women are equal and discrimination based on race, religion or ethnicity is wrong, so maybe we should actually listen to him.

[Saint Yosx]

No but theology informs our opinions on chivalry.

And chivalry comes form a theology that thought that all Muslims should either be killed or forcefully converted to the "true" faith.

That's like saying since democracy was created by the greeks but the greeks believed in slavery we should get rid of democracy.... that's no how it works. Instead we should adopt some not all principles, since we have lots to learn from the past.

[Adamede]

And chivalry comes form a theology that thought that all Muslims should either be killed or forcefully converted to the "true" faith.

That's like saying since democracy was created by the greeks but the greeks believed in slavery we should get rid of democracy.... that's no how it works. Instead we should adopt some not all principles, since we have lots to learn from the past.

Thing is slavery isn't an intrinsic part of democracy. Catholic theology is for actual chivalry. And I mean if your going to argue for chivalry's value from a theological perspective you might as well include the actual theology that created chivalry.

Anyway chivalry offers nothing that we as a society don't already posses. Hell have you even read the arguments they've put forth for it? It's mostly benevolent sexism and outdated thinking.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

And chivalry comes form a theology that thought that all Muslims should either be killed or forcefully converted to the "true" faith.

Many Islamic scholars (experts) describe “Islamic chivalry”, what is your source for saying chivalry is a specifically Christian phenomenon? The same ideological principles would apply to any Abrahamic (the morals are the same in that regard unless you follow an old testament interpretation which also outlaws Christian chivalry), male, upper-class, warrior.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Since we no longer live in the 7th Century, taking life advice from your magical sky friend that supposedly exists may not be the best of ideas.

Magical sky friend says men and women are equal and discrimination based on race, religion or ethnicity is wrong, so maybe we should actually listen to him.

True but brother he also says to protect women.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Magical sky friend says men and women are equal and discrimination based on race, religion or ethnicity is wrong, so maybe we should actually listen to him.

True but brother he also says to protect women.

I'm sorry did women ask you to protect them? I think most of them can manage on their own, so focus on protecting yourself from the world cause it's an ugly world.

[Punished UMN]

Idk but plate armor is lit.

[Kowani]

Idk but plate armor is lit.

I don’t know, that stealth disadvantage is not appreciated

[The Free Joy State]

*snip* Even though I put myself on the left, it's ridiculous how some feminists forget that men struggle with many things as well, like the only reason why the wage gap exists is because men aren't given paid time off to take care of their children when their born.

An increasing number of countries recognise the vital early role fathers play in their child's life and offer paid paternity leave, or divides parental leave as the parents choose. This includes Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland, Denmark (some of the most liberal countries in the world), Japan (which offers 30 weeks at full rate), South Korea, Spain, Canada, the US and the UK.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Since we no longer live in the 7th Century, taking life advice from your magical sky friend that supposedly exists may not be the best of ideas.

Magical sky friend says men and women are equal and discrimination based on race, religion or ethnicity is wrong, so maybe we should actually listen to him.

God encouraged genocide, servitude and public execution for rape victims and homosexuals. True egalitarianism.

[Clan Fainedubh]

Idk but plate armor is lit.

It really is, and often misunderstood. Yeah it's heavy, but the full packs that modern soldiers carry is heavier. I've seen a video of someone doing cartwheels in plate armor, pretty much dunking on any concept that it slows people down significantly. Yes, it will fatigue someone faster, which very much is a factor, but that's different altogether. I could look up the video to show you, but that's getting a little off topic - TG me for more conversation on plate armor if you want to, I guess.

*snip* Even though I put myself on the left, it's ridiculous how some feminists forget that men struggle with many things as well, like the only reason why the wage gap exists is because men aren't given paid time off to take care of their children when their born.

An increasing number of countries recognise the vital early role fathers play in their child's life and offer paid paternity leave, or divides parental leave as the parents choose. This includes Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland, Denmark (some of the most liberal countries in the world), Japan (which offers 30 weeks at full rate), South Korea, Spain, Canada, the US and the UK.

True, which makes said wage gap entirely inexcusable. Plus there's single mothers who need to work to take care of themself and their child, as well as same gender couples with children, and... yeah, the wage gap is just plain intolerable.

Magical sky friend says men and women are equal and discrimination based on race, religion or ethnicity is wrong, so maybe we should actually listen to him.

God encouraged genocide, servitude and public execution for rape victims and homosexuals. True egalitarianism.

That is true. As I see it, the entire book is a straight up propaganda piece, meant to encourage subservience and adherence to the status quo, marginalize minorities and encourage oppression and violence against them... taken at face value, the entire thing is downright barbaric. Thankfully, for the most part it isn't taken at face value (by most people), and the religion has (largely) modernized over the centuries to something far more approachable. There's a huge difference between (most) Christians today, and the ones in the pre-medieval period who converted pagans at sword-point, and the medieval period crusades, and the Spanish inquisition, and so on. I could ramble on further, but that's besides the point right now. Point is, updating values are vital to society not massively sucking.

Which means so-called "chivalry", the fake version invented by people who did not know anything about actual knights and was used to romanticize them, which later became an excuse for a lot of people to be massive chauvinists, it absolutely has to go the way of the dodo. Even if one only looks at the so-called "positive sexism" elements of it - those place unrealistic standards upon women and it removes a good deal of agency from them, and ultimately in only encourages negative sexism as well, especially from women who either do not live up to those unrealistic standards or who are attempting to get agency back in their lives. "Oh, you aren't perfect and pure? You must be a slut then." It genuinely does encourage that line of thinking. Have witnessed that a few times secondhand unfortunately (witnessing such things transpire among other people, sometimes strangers, sometimes people I personally know.) Such relationships quickly become horrifically abusive, and difficult for the victims to leave. It's manipulative and sick. And that, friends, is why "chivalry" is bad.

[Saint Yosx]

*snip* Even though I put myself on the left, it's ridiculous how some feminists forget that men struggle with many things as well, like the only reason why the wage gap exists is because men aren't given paid time off to take care of their children when their born.

An increasing number of countries recognise the vital early role fathers play in their child's life and offer paid paternity leave, or divides parental leave as the parents choose. This includes Norway, Sweden, Germany, Finland, Denmark (some of the most liberal countries in the world), Japan (which offers 30 weeks at full rate), South Korea, Spain, Canada, the US and the UK.

That’s exactly what we need, and boom we solved the wage gap just like that.

[Champagne Socialist Sharifistan]

Magical sky friend says men and women are equal and discrimination based on race, religion or ethnicity is wrong, so maybe we should actually listen to him.

God encouraged genocide, servitude and public execution for rape victims and homosexuals. True egalitarianism.

Not in Islam.

[Saint Yosx]

God encouraged genocide, servitude and public execution for rape victims and homosexuals. True egalitarianism.

Not in Islam.

Not in Christianarity either. The people who did that stuff were not in the will of god....

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Not in Islam.

“Well a real Muslim wouldn’t do X so people who do X aren’t really practicing Islam.”

I do love myself some No True Scotsman fallacy.

Face it, when you get people to live their lives in accordance with what some undereducated dude said in the 7th Century, you are going to have problems. It’s inevitable.

[Saint Yosx]

Not in Islam.

“Well a real Muslim wouldn’t do X so people who do X aren’t really practicing Islam.”

I do love myself some No True Scotsman fallacy. Face it, when you get people to live their lives in accordance with what some dude said in the 7th Century, you are going to have problems. It’s inevitable.

True, there may be some outdated ideas, although I do believe there is lots of core values like respect and honor in past texts about Chivalry. Sometimes you have to understand they came from a different era with different government and different technology, so their morals and what they believed in was different.

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

Sometimes you have to understand they came from a different era with different government and different technology, so their morals and what they believed in was different.

Oh, yes. I understand this point perfectly. Which is why I oppose “traditional values”.

People who keep prattering on about their magic sky friends really do make me wonder if these people somehow missed the fact that we live in a different era now. Different technology, different economics, and these hide-bound reactionaries want the same social customs. Ludicrous.

[Clan Fainedubh]

Sometimes you have to understand they came from a different era with different government and different technology, so their morals and what they believed in was different.

Oh, yes. I understand this point perfectly. Which is why I oppose “traditional values”.

People who keep prattering on about their magic sky friends really do make me wonder if these people somehow missed the fact that we live in a different era now. Different technology, different economics, and these hide-bound reactionaries want the same social customs. Ludicrous.

Couldn't agree more. It's why I went with a more Neitzschian concept: "I hate your traditional values, so I'll invent my own values! With blackjack and hookers!" (Greatly oversimplifying the concept of Ubermensch, but it sums this up nicely.)

[The Free Joy State]

Sometimes you have to understand they came from a different era with different government and different technology, so their morals and what they believed in was different.

Oh, yes. I understand this point perfectly. Which is why I oppose “traditional values”.

People who keep prattering on about their magic sky friends really do make me wonder if these people somehow missed the fact that we live in a different era now. Different technology, different economics, and these hide-bound reactionaries want the same social customs. Ludicrous.

In fairness, with the exception of some fundamentalist groups (*looks at Quiverfull*) that believe in a literalist interpretation, most religious groups do allow -- encourage, even -- that context has to enter into it and the social mores have to be considered when looking at what verses apply to today and how.

That's why an increasing number of religious people support LGBT+ rights and a less patriarchal gender ideology, despite what religious books say (were they to be read, or often mistranslated in literalist terms).

Religious people can use what they can use and leave what doesn't work.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Idk why everyone is talking about chivalry in Islam. I mean I think women would rather live in a world without chivalry or Islamic law governing their entire life instead of a world where chivalry exists but so does Islamic law.

Imagine having the door held for you at places, but you also gotta wear a hijab and your testimony in court is only worth half that of a man, oh and if you divorce your husband he takes the kids by default.

[Phoenicaea]

yes, it shall be good. then it is them, women, to decide. if in my case they do not appreciate, i adapt. it is quite confusing, i confess at the end i’m not able to figure out, so i renounce.

i investigate ‘agnostic’ chivalry though, religion? it is enough if they do not rape my own social mores, and if they sworn fidelty to the republic of course. or at least if they do not harm, and so far good.

.. Imagine having the door held for you at places, but you also gotta wear a hijab and your testimony in court is only worth half that of a man, oh and if you divorce..

..and if you divorce you get pardoned with shame in place of stoned. yes, a paradox.

[Saint Yosx]

Oh, yes. I understand this point perfectly. Which is why I oppose “traditional values”.

People who keep prattering on about their magic sky friends really do make me wonder if these people somehow missed the fact that we live in a different era now. Different technology, different economics, and these hide-bound reactionaries want the same social customs. Ludicrous.

In fairness, with the exception of some fundamentalist groups (*looks at Quiverfull*) that believe in a literalist interpretation, most religious groups do allow -- encourage, even -- that context has to enter into it and the social mores have to be considered when looking at what verses apply to today and how.

That's why an increasing number of religious people support LGBT+ rights and a less patriarchal gender ideology, despite what religious books say (were they to be read, or often mistranslated in literalist terms).

Religious people can use what they can use and leave what doesn't work.

I agree 100%, the church does need to modernize, and have a “I may disagree but i respect your beliefs” type of mentality when it comes to certain things.