NATION

PASSWORD

Syndicalism Discussion Thread

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

The General Strike: What is its role in a future syndicalist revolution?

The general strike is a revolutionary action that is sufficient for a successful overthrow of existing structures in of itself
4
36%
The general strike is a revolutionary action but may need to be supplemented with other methods
4
36%
The general strike can be revolutionary but under most circumstances will rather be the cause of a greater social revolution
0
No votes
The general strike in reality is part of but not the main aspect of a revolution led by syndicalists
0
No votes
The general strike is unable to be a fully revolutionary action and cannot overthrow capitalism
2
18%
Other
1
9%
 
Total votes : 11

User avatar
Zedeshia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 173
Founded: Sep 25, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Syndicalism Discussion Thread

Postby Zedeshia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:31 pm

Image
Syndicalism Discussion Thread
Solidarity Forever!



Discussions on Syndicalism and its many forms have appeared in the past of these forums. However following recent events I believe that now would be a fitting time to reintroduce the topic.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss and debate Syndicalism as well as similar ideologies. It is hoped that this will help foster a better understanding on what Syndicalism is and how it has developed over time, as well as to serve as a place for discussion between different syndicalists. Any topics or questions related to Syndicalism are allowed to be discussed as long as they comply with Forum Rules, and include past syndicalist movements/organizations, syndicalist methods, syndicalist writings, and more. All are welcome to give their own input on the matter.

That being said, Syndicalists of NSG, what exactly are your positions? Do syndicalist methods of direct action still prove effective in the modern workplace? Will a General Strike prove sufficient on its own for the overthrow of capitalism or will further action be needed? What exactly will the role of unions be following the revolution, economic, political, or both? I hold high hopes for what the answers to these questions may be.

Speaking personally, I am a socialist and a revolutionary syndicalist, inspired primarily by the early CGT and ITGWU. Following the revolutionary General Strike and the seizure of the means of production directly by the workers I envision that democratic and unbureaucratic trade unions would form the core of society, shifting from organs of revolutionary struggle to the basic unit of organization for economic and governmental purposes. Unions would be further coordinated into local, regional, and national federations, simultaneously uniting those of multiple industries within a certain area and unions of a single industry on a national scale, similarly that to the French Bourse du Travail. Certain former state functions would likely still continue in a decentralized manner, until a point where the state would naturally wither away entirely as time passes. Naturally this flavor of syndicalism is far from representative of the ideals other revolutionary syndicalists. However it would be for the best that I establish where I stand on the issue.




Poll History

Poll #1: What form of syndicalism do you support?

Anarcho-Syndicalism - 11 votes - 27%

Green Syndicalism - 5 votes - 12%

Revolutionary Syndicalism - 7 votes - 17%

De Leonism - 3 votes - 7%

Sorelianism - 1 vote - 2%

National Syndicalism - 10 votes - 24%

Other - 4 votes - 10%


Poll #2: Is syndicalism explicitly left or right leaning??

Left - 8 votes - 62%

Right - 0 votes - 0%

Neither - 5 votes - 38%
Last edited by Zedeshia on Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.
What happens when one combines the Baltic States, interstellar technology, vast amounts of wealth, and moderate Social Democratic policies?
Well besides an absolute mess, Zedeshia!


Factbooks | Region | Overview
In Prosperity, We Stand United
We do not use NationStates Stats.
This nation in no way reflects my actual political views.

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:30 pm

National Syndicalism ftw.

I am sympathizing with the idea.
Last edited by Nakena on Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Conservative Republic Of Huang
Minister
 
Posts: 2570
Founded: Jul 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Republic Of Huang » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:11 pm

I think an important issue to address is how syndicalism would work in a modern word moving away from industrial work and increasingly working in different communities from where they live. I subscribe to a "dual-track" system with a geographically based system of organization with the usual federation structure alongside the syndicate of your employment.
Pro: Direct democracy, e-democracy, parliamentary sovereignty, state secularism, non-violent direct action (striking), police reform, syndicalism, democratic workplace management
Anti: Most types of representative democracy, ultra-nationalism, imperialism, autocratic workplace management, the state

"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say syndicalism now, syndicalism tomorrow, syndicalism forever."
not conservative or a republic
Transparency

User avatar
United Latin American States
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 63
Founded: Sep 16, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby United Latin American States » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:15 pm

Imagine being an anarchist.
Economic Left/Right: -8.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.15

"If it's total freedom you want, then I shall demonstrate to you the barbarity and cruelty that freedom allows." - Former Chief Schwarz Officer, Second Social Engineer Jozefina Safira Venka
"Those who rally against the marching progress of science and innovation, are, ironically, the same people who benefit the most from its discoveries and inventions" -- First Speaker of the STEM Ministry, Davido Ozmano Ernandezmo
"I tread where I f*cking please!"-- First Leader of the ULAS, Grand Social Engineer Yozefo De Stellumo

User avatar
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
Minister
 
Posts: 3230
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:17 pm

National Syndicalism is the only alternative to capitalism without devolving into chaos
Not an adherent of Italian Fascism anymore, leaning more and more towards Falangist Syndicalism
Corporatism and Corporatocracy are completely different things
9axes
Pro: Falange, Command Economy, Class-Cooperation, Cultural Nationalism, Authoritarianism, Third Positionism, Border Security
Anti: Communism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Trump, Globalism, Racism, Democracy, Immigration

User avatar
Zedeshia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 173
Founded: Sep 25, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Zedeshia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:37 pm

Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:I think an important issue to address is how syndicalism would work in a modern word moving away from industrial work and increasingly working in different communities from where they live. I subscribe to a "dual-track" system with a geographically based system of organization with the usual federation structure alongside the syndicate of your employment.

I can understand why you would take such a position. If I may ask, what exactly would the ideal relationship between the two be? Would there be a close connection between the actions of a syndicate and this others body, or would they operate separately?
What happens when one combines the Baltic States, interstellar technology, vast amounts of wealth, and moderate Social Democratic policies?
Well besides an absolute mess, Zedeshia!


Factbooks | Region | Overview
In Prosperity, We Stand United
We do not use NationStates Stats.
This nation in no way reflects my actual political views.

User avatar
Suriyanakhon
Senator
 
Posts: 3623
Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Suriyanakhon » Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:29 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:National Syndicalism is the only alternative to capitalism without devolving into chaos


Beating farmers and workers over the head and making them drink castor oil if they agitate for their right to own the means of production isn't an alternative to capitalism, it's the most flagrant and degraded form of capitalism. That's all National Syndicalism is, state terror coupled with corporatist economics that appropriates the chic of syndicalism while rejecting all of the content.
Resident Drowned Victorian Waif (he/him)
Imāmiyya Shīʿa Muslim

User avatar
Nuroblav
Minister
 
Posts: 2352
Founded: Nov 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nuroblav » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:21 am

I'll admit I'm a little confused as to what syndicalism actually is, albeit I partially idea of things.

What I do know is that has a lot to do with unions - placing a huge emphasis on them. I presume syndicalist systems would be organised around them? I also know a lot of this would be achieved via direct action of some sort.

So am I close on those? I don't think I would be a syndicalist - just trying to a basic idea of what it is.
Your NS mutualist(?), individualist, metalhead and all-round...err...human. TG if you have any questions about my political or musical views.

Economic Left/Right: -4.75, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03

\m/ METAL IS BASED \m/

User avatar
Nilokeras
Senator
 
Posts: 3955
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilokeras » Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:58 am

Nuroblav wrote:I'll admit I'm a little confused as to what syndicalism actually is, albeit I partially idea of things.

What I do know is that has a lot to do with unions - placing a huge emphasis on them. I presume syndicalist systems would be organised around them? I also know a lot of this would be achieved via direct action of some sort.

So am I close on those? I don't think I would be a syndicalist - just trying to a basic idea of what it is.


Syndicalism is when you're a regular democratic socialist with trade unionist sympathies but are also terminally online and play too much Kaiserreich

User avatar
Suriyanakhon
Senator
 
Posts: 3623
Founded: Apr 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Suriyanakhon » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:06 am

Nilokeras wrote:
Nuroblav wrote:I'll admit I'm a little confused as to what syndicalism actually is, albeit I partially idea of things.

What I do know is that has a lot to do with unions - placing a huge emphasis on them. I presume syndicalist systems would be organised around them? I also know a lot of this would be achieved via direct action of some sort.

So am I close on those? I don't think I would be a syndicalist - just trying to a basic idea of what it is.


Syndicalism is when you're a regular democratic socialist with trade unionist sympathies but are also terminally online and play too much Kaiserreich


That mostly applies to the self-declared national syndicalists and is extremely cursed.
Resident Drowned Victorian Waif (he/him)
Imāmiyya Shīʿa Muslim

User avatar
Stylan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1475
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Stylan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:07 am

Nakena wrote:National Syndicalism ftw.

I am sympathizing with the idea.

I thought you were an anti-fascist?
[align=center]Christian.

User avatar
Conservative Republic Of Huang
Minister
 
Posts: 2570
Founded: Jul 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Conservative Republic Of Huang » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:07 am

Zedeshia wrote:
Conservative Republic Of Huang wrote:I think an important issue to address is how syndicalism would work in a modern word moving away from industrial work and increasingly working in different communities from where they live. I subscribe to a "dual-track" system with a geographically based system of organization with the usual federation structure alongside the syndicate of your employment.

I can understand why you would take such a position. If I may ask, what exactly would the ideal relationship between the two be? Would there be a close connection between the actions of a syndicate and this others body, or would they operate separately?


That would have to depend with the geographical situation. In an area with one primary employer or only a few employers, there may well be strong cooperation between the assembly, for lack of a better word, of where you live and your syndicate, with various responsibilities being split as appropriate. In an urbanized area where there is a vast diversity of employing syndicates, any meaningful cooperation would probably be extremely impractical.
Pro: Direct democracy, e-democracy, parliamentary sovereignty, state secularism, non-violent direct action (striking), police reform, syndicalism, democratic workplace management
Anti: Most types of representative democracy, ultra-nationalism, imperialism, autocratic workplace management, the state

"In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say syndicalism now, syndicalism tomorrow, syndicalism forever."
not conservative or a republic
Transparency

User avatar
Stylan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1475
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Stylan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:08 am

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:National Syndicalism is the only alternative to capitalism without devolving into chaos


Beating farmers and workers over the head and making them drink castor oil if they agitate for their right to own the means of production isn't an alternative to capitalism, it's the most flagrant and degraded form of capitalism. That's all National Syndicalism is, state terror coupled with corporatist economics that appropriates the chic of syndicalism while rejecting all of the content.

Eh, syndicalism is a bit more complicated.

Anyway, I don't support syndicalism, unions aren't the be-all end-all for a solution to capitalism.
[align=center]Christian.

User avatar
Stylan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1475
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Stylan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:09 am

Nuroblav wrote:I'll admit I'm a little confused as to what syndicalism actually is, albeit I partially idea of things.

What I do know is that has a lot to do with unions - placing a huge emphasis on them. I presume syndicalist systems would be organised around them? I also know a lot of this would be achieved via direct action of some sort.

So am I close on those? I don't think I would be a syndicalist - just trying to a basic idea of what it is.

It's basically the idea that society should by run by unions.
[align=center]Christian.

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:11 am

Stylan wrote:
Nakena wrote:National Syndicalism ftw.

I am sympathizing with the idea.

I thought you were an anti-fascist?


Being interested in a concept does not equal support or endorsing it.

User avatar
Stylan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1475
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Stylan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:13 am

Nakena wrote:
Stylan wrote:I thought you were an anti-fascist?


Being interested in a concept does not equal support or endorsing it.

Ah, my bad.
[align=center]Christian.

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7643
Founded: May 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:16 am

Syndicalism alongside nationalism doesn't sound too bad as long as it's not ethno-nationalism.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

User avatar
Nilokeras
Senator
 
Posts: 3955
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilokeras » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:17 am

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
Syndicalism is when you're a regular democratic socialist with trade unionist sympathies but are also terminally online and play too much Kaiserreich


That mostly applies to the self-declared national syndicalists and is extremely cursed.


it takes real skill to find an ideology even more dead than the M-L'ists or the falangists but by gum they did it

User avatar
Stylan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1475
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Stylan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:18 am

Nilokeras wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:
That mostly applies to the self-declared national syndicalists and is extremely cursed.


it takes real skill to find an ideology even more dead than the M-L'ists or the falangists but by gum they did it

Marxism-Leninism is dead? Also you have a Lenin pfp...
[align=center]Christian.

User avatar
Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:18 am

Nilokeras wrote:
Suriyanakhon wrote:
That mostly applies to the self-declared national syndicalists and is extremely cursed.


it takes real skill to find an ideology even more dead than the M-L'ists or the falangists but by gum they did it


Marxist-Leninism is still state ideology in a number of nations.

User avatar
Stylan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1475
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Stylan » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:19 am

Nakena wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
it takes real skill to find an ideology even more dead than the M-L'ists or the falangists but by gum they did it


Marxist-Leninism is still state ideology in a number of nations.

This, and there are tons of ML communities online and plenty of ML parties irl, especially in the third world.
[align=center]Christian.

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7643
Founded: May 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:20 am

Nakena wrote:
Stylan wrote:I thought you were an anti-fascist?


Being interested in a concept does not equal support or endorsing it.

It sounds interesting as well, but I wouldn't endorse it either. I'm not fascist.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

User avatar
Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
Minister
 
Posts: 3230
Founded: Sep 01, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:21 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:Syndicalism alongside nationalism doesn't sound too bad as long as it's not ethno-nationalism.

Cultural national syndicalism :ugeek:
Not an adherent of Italian Fascism anymore, leaning more and more towards Falangist Syndicalism
Corporatism and Corporatocracy are completely different things
9axes
Pro: Falange, Command Economy, Class-Cooperation, Cultural Nationalism, Authoritarianism, Third Positionism, Border Security
Anti: Communism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Trump, Globalism, Racism, Democracy, Immigration

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7643
Founded: May 23, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:24 am

Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Syndicalism alongside nationalism doesn't sound too bad as long as it's not ethno-nationalism.

Cultural national syndicalism :ugeek:

I think National Syndicalism entails a different type of nationalism if I'm not mistaken. At least a different type than what I subscribe to.
"It's called 'the American Dream' 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." - Carl Schurz
Older posts do not reflect my positions.

Holocene Extinction

User avatar
Nilokeras
Senator
 
Posts: 3955
Founded: Jul 14, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilokeras » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:25 am

Nakena wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
it takes real skill to find an ideology even more dead than the M-L'ists or the falangists but by gum they did it


Marxist-Leninism is still state ideology in a number of nations.


But none of them in the places that they actually live. I can simp for the restoration of the Stuarts or the Saudi monarchy all I like in North America but that doesn't make me a living part of a political movement.

Stylan wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
it takes real skill to find an ideology even more dead than the M-L'ists or the falangists but by gum they did it

Marxism-Leninism is dead? Also you have a Lenin pfp...


*taps the 'it's a meme' sign*
Last edited by Nilokeras on Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cerespasia, Deblar, Grinning Dragon, Hidrandia, Ifreann, Kreushia, Plan Neonie, Republics of the Solar Union, Singaporen Empire, Statesburg, The Jamesian Republic

Advertisement

Remove ads