NATION

PASSWORD

If the USA were a Commonwealth realm...?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
Ariddia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 461
Founded: Antiquity
Liberal Democratic Socialists

If the USA were a Commonwealth realm...?

Postby Ariddia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:54 am

A thought experiment. If the USA were a Commonwealth realm, like Canada or Australia for example, it would be a fully independent country and a voluntary member of the Commonwealth, but would symbolically recognise Queen Elizabeth II as head of state. In relation to the US, she would be "Queen of the United States", and the Crown of the US would be constitutionally separate from the Crown of the UK - meaning that the role, duties and prerogatives of the Queen of the USA would be defined solely and exclusively by the American Constitution, laws and people, not by Britain.

More to the point for this thought experiment, though, is that fact that the US would not have a President. Instead, it would have
* a Governor-General, serving as de facto head of state (technically as the Queen's representative), with a mostly ceremonial role and perhaps a few reserve powers; and
* a Prime Minister, chosen by the House of Representatives, or perhaps by Congress as a whole.

Citizens would of course still elect Congress. To become Prime Minister, a person would need to be a member of the House of Representatives, and he or she would need the support of a majority of members of the House. He or she would remain accountable to the House, having to face questions from the members of the House every week, and would have to resign as Prime Minister if he or she lost the support of the House.

The Governor-General would be a US citizen (of course) and would either be chosen by the Prime Minister or elected by Congress. The Prime Minister would exercise the reality of executive power, as he or she would be a politician with a mandate from the democratically elected House of Representatives. By contrast, the person chosen to be Governor-General would not be a politician. Having a ceremonial role, he or she would need to be a non-partisan, unifying figure.

So my question to you is this: If the USA were indeed a Commonwealth realm, who do you think would or should be the Prime Minister? And who do you think would or should be the Governor-General?

Bearing in mind that the Prime Minister would normally be the leader of the majority party in the House, and that the Governor-General should be chosen for his / her capacity to embody what is best about the American nation, in a unifying and non-partisan manner. (Think of Julie Payette in Canada, for example.)

(Yes, I know that this wouldn't happen, so there's no need to point it out. The purpose here is to look at who would exercise those functions if it were.)
Ariddia: land of islands, forests, grapefruit, and founder of the World Cup.

How Ariddia is governed now.

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 58625
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:14 am

Biden as the de facto leader of the USA. So prime minister.

Kanye West Beyonce as governor-general.
Forumer mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Five blank lines will now follow





This is the 8th line. If your sig is longer than mine, it is too long.

User avatar
Ariddia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 461
Founded: Antiquity
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ariddia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:24 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:Biden as the de facto leader of the USA. So prime minister.


The Democrats have a majority in the House, so if their method for choosing their party leader were the same in this hypothetical reality, and if Biden had himself won a seat in the HoR, I suppose it would indeed be him.

Kanye West Beyonce as governor-general.


She's not a US citizen, though, so not eligible. Amusing as that would be. ;)
Ariddia: land of islands, forests, grapefruit, and founder of the World Cup.

How Ariddia is governed now.

User avatar
Glorious Hong Kong
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1233
Founded: Nov 01, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:06 pm

Someone like Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio, Tom Cotton, or Mike Pompeo should be the Prime Minister. Dr. Anthony Fauci should be the Governor-General.

The U.S. could declare itself a parliamentary republic with the role of Governor-General being renamed to President. Singapore, India, Israel, and Ireland have already done so. Or America could install its own separate royal family similar to Fiji or Malaysia. The Kardashians and the Kennedys are the only families I can think of.
LIBERATE HONG KONG. REVOLUTION OF OUR TIMES. CCP DELENDA EST.
VIVE LE FRANCE. JE SUIS SAMUEL PATY. I STAND WITH EUROPE AND ISRAEL AGAINST RADICAL ISLAM.
ALL LIVES MATTER.
Wuhan coronavirus is racist but Japanese encephalitis is A-OK. The CCP has nothing to do with this double standard whatsoever. Nothing to see here.
The case against communism (Dispatch) [WIP]
Definition of radical Islam

User avatar
Ariddia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 461
Founded: Antiquity
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ariddia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:50 pm

Glorious Hong Kong wrote:Dr. Anthony Fauci should be the Governor-General.


I had to look him up, but he would certainly seem like a good choice.

(You were thinking of Tonga, by the way, not Fiji. Fiji is a parliamentary republic of the Irish / Indian type.)
Ariddia: land of islands, forests, grapefruit, and founder of the World Cup.

How Ariddia is governed now.

User avatar
The Three Palins
Diplomat
 
Posts: 501
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Three Palins » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:07 pm

The most populous Commonwealth countries drive on the left hand side of the road. I expect Americans will adopt the new rules with enthusiasm rivalled only by their adoption of the Metric system, and grow to enjoy the sound of cars colliding head-on at all hours of the day.

Except in the rural areas of course. Where they will show their disdain of the new rules by driving the same as always, bang down the center line.
Michael Palin - 3rd funniest Monty Python -- PM of TTP
Sarah Palin - Best female VP candidate, US - Foreign Affairs
Robert Palin - Unlucky burglar, hanged 1861 - Justice, Health, Treasury

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 64983
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:22 pm

If the US was a Commonwealth realm Canada wouldn’t exist as it would be one with the US. The political Union would probably be called Columbia or British North America.

Though if the US was a Commonwealth realm and separate from Canada then the Prime Minister would probably be Pelosi again, after she had already held the position from 2007 to 2011. The Governor General would probably be Dr Fauchi
Last edited by Thermodolia on Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Male, Titoist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, give me any good Irish, Canadian, or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY! US Military Veteran
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA: Senior Eve Šanœ, Junior Jon Æthr

RIP Dya

User avatar
The Reformed American Republic
Minister
 
Posts: 3384
Founded: May 23, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Reformed American Republic » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:25 pm

If we became a Commonwealth Realm, it wouldn't be bad to be honest.

User avatar
The Three Palins
Diplomat
 
Posts: 501
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Three Palins » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:28 pm

Ariddia wrote:More to the point for this thought experiment, though, is that fact that the US would not have a President. Instead, it would have
* a Governor-General, serving as de facto head of state (technically as the Queen's representative), with a mostly ceremonial role and perhaps a few reserve powers; and
* a Prime Minister, chosen by the House of Representatives, or perhaps by Congress as a whole.


It seems all the Realm countries do have a Parliamentary system, and requiring the British Monarch to be Head of State does seem to prevent having a President in that role.

I see no reason the US couldn't have a President anyway. The sort-of President would have to give up some powers to the new Head of State, the Governor-General however styled. But it's not in the definition of Head of State that they need to have the President's veto powers or right to appoint a Cabinet.

In fact, the Monarch might agree to some arrangement where he/she customarily appoints as Governor-General whoever was duly elected every four years. That would be the President in all but name, while still retaining for the monarch emergency powers to appoint someone else if she really doesn't like who the people chose.

As long as you still have a decent old bird as Queen, it's the best of both worlds really. But there's a catch. You're not going to have the good old Queen for much longer. And you don't know if you'll get King Charles who seems decent enough but might decline, or King William who ... well it's best not to speak of ill of royalty so I won't.
Michael Palin - 3rd funniest Monty Python -- PM of TTP
Sarah Palin - Best female VP candidate, US - Foreign Affairs
Robert Palin - Unlucky burglar, hanged 1861 - Justice, Health, Treasury

User avatar
Luziyca
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36464
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:33 pm

If the USA were a commonwealth realm, it'd basically be Canada without Quebec.
|||The Kingdom of Rwizikuru|||
[13:38] Vnik [Hardhiara] Luz is obviously the worst scout Kylaris has
IIwikiFacebookTwitterKylaris: the best region for five years runningAbout meYouTubePolitical compass

User avatar
The Three Palins
Diplomat
 
Posts: 501
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The Three Palins » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:39 pm

Thermodolia wrote:If the US was a Commonwealth realm Canada wouldn’t exist as it would be one with the US.


That's a rather parochial way of seeing it. It would be fairer to say neither country would exist any more!

Though actually the sacrifice of sovereignty is minor, joining the Realm, and does not imply any ownership of one country by another. I think it goes back to the formation of the United Kingdom itself, that Scotland and England by agreeing to share a Queen did not mean they ceased being distinct nations. The United Kingdom are more closely bound than the Realm of course, but even so it is legal for any of them to secede. Unlike it must be said, the US States which are not sovereign in that sense.
Michael Palin - 3rd funniest Monty Python -- PM of TTP
Sarah Palin - Best female VP candidate, US - Foreign Affairs
Robert Palin - Unlucky burglar, hanged 1861 - Justice, Health, Treasury

User avatar
Ariddia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 461
Founded: Antiquity
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Ariddia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:44 pm

Thermodolia wrote:Though if the US was a Commonwealth realm and separate from Canada then the Prime Minister would probably be Pelosi again, after she had already held the position from 2007 to 2011. The Governor General would probably be Dr Fauchi


Makes sense.

The Three Palins wrote:and grow to enjoy the sound of cars colliding head-on at all hours of the day.


That sounds... festive. :)

The Reformed American Republic wrote:If we became a Commonwealth Realm, it wouldn't be bad to be honest.


There are certain advantages to having a non-partisan head of state.

The Three Palins wrote:I see no reason the US couldn't have a President anyway. The sort-of President would have to give up some powers to the new Head of State, the Governor-General however styled. But it's not in the definition of Head of State that they need to have the President's veto powers or right to appoint a Cabinet.

In fact, the Monarch might agree to some arrangement where he/she customarily appoints as Governor-General whoever was duly elected every four years. That would be the President in all but name, while still retaining for the monarch emergency powers to appoint someone else if she really doesn't like who the people chose.


That could work, I suppose. Except that it would make the Governor-General a political figure, presumably a member of a political party, elected after campaigning on a set of policy proposals against other candidates with other proposals. So: a potentially divise figure, which Governors-General aren't supposed to be.

On the upside, if you had the Queen plus an executive Governor-General with no Prime Minister, you'd still have a non-partisan head of state (the Queen), without needing to divide functions between a Governor-General and a Prime Minister.

As long as you still have a decent old bird as Queen, it's the best of both worlds really. But there's a catch. You're not going to have the good old Queen for much longer. And you don't know if you'll get King Charles who seems decent enough but might decline, or King William who ... well it's best not to speak of ill of royalty so I won't.


Unless the Queen actually outlives Charles, I think he will become King.
Ariddia: land of islands, forests, grapefruit, and founder of the World Cup.

How Ariddia is governed now.

User avatar
Luziyca
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36464
Founded: Nov 13, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Luziyca » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:43 pm

The Three Palins wrote:
Ariddia wrote:More to the point for this thought experiment, though, is that fact that the US would not have a President. Instead, it would have
* a Governor-General, serving as de facto head of state (technically as the Queen's representative), with a mostly ceremonial role and perhaps a few reserve powers; and
* a Prime Minister, chosen by the House of Representatives, or perhaps by Congress as a whole.


It seems all the Realm countries do have a Parliamentary system, and requiring the British Monarch to be Head of State does seem to prevent having a President in that role.

I see no reason the US couldn't have a President anyway. The sort-of President would have to give up some powers to the new Head of State, the Governor-General however styled. But it's not in the definition of Head of State that they need to have the President's veto powers or right to appoint a Cabinet.

In fact, the Monarch might agree to some arrangement where he/she customarily appoints as Governor-General whoever was duly elected every four years. That would be the President in all but name, while still retaining for the monarch emergency powers to appoint someone else if she really doesn't like who the people chose.

As long as you still have a decent old bird as Queen, it's the best of both worlds really. But there's a catch. You're not going to have the good old Queen for much longer. And you don't know if you'll get King Charles who seems decent enough but might decline, or King William who ... well it's best not to speak of ill of royalty so I won't.

Would you rather have King Andrew ruling over the USA over William or Charles?
|||The Kingdom of Rwizikuru|||
[13:38] Vnik [Hardhiara] Luz is obviously the worst scout Kylaris has
IIwikiFacebookTwitterKylaris: the best region for five years runningAbout meYouTubePolitical compass

User avatar
Middle Barael
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 368
Founded: Apr 24, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Middle Barael » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:48 pm

Realistically, I think that Kamala Harris would be the most likely since she could easily count on he support of both the moderate and even most progressives, as opposed to folks such as Bernie, Pelosi, Biden, Bloomberg, or AOC. I do think that Buttigieg or Stacey Abrams would also be popular, but not as popular
Pro: Environmentalism, fighting climate change, social democracy, police reform, LGBTQ rights, abortions, separation of church and state, democracy, assault weapon ban, proportional representation, multi-party states, Two-State Solution, Israel AND Palestine, pacifism, immigration, Anti-Racism, Jacinda Ardern-type Politics, NHS-type Healthcare, culture, science, UN

Anti: Environmental destruction, fossil fuels, Trump, Laissez-faire economy, communism, far-right, homophobia, “Pro-Life”, dictatorships, one/two-party systems, guns, Netanyahu, Israeli settlements/annexation, Hamas, Hezbollah, Jihadist terrorists, war, racism, anti-immigration, nationalism, fascism,


8Values
Social: Very Progressive
Economic: Social
Hierarchical: Liberal
Foreign: Internationalist

User avatar
American Pere Housh
Minister
 
Posts: 3216
Founded: Jan 12, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby American Pere Housh » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:00 pm

Middle Barael wrote:Realistically, I think that Kamala Harris would be the most likely since she could easily count on he support of both the moderate and even most progressives, as opposed to folks such as Bernie, Pelosi, Biden, Bloomberg, or AOC. I do think that Buttigieg or Stacey Abrams would also be popular, but not as popular

Most of these people aren't even in the HoR and as for AOC becoming Prime Minister, pigs will have to be flying before that happens.
WA Ambassador: Eliza 'Vanny' Cortez
Please join Grim Moon, an SAO inspired RP.
Member of CATO
RIP Rush Limbaugh. May you always be remembered in a Positive light.
Taiwan is the true China.

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19741
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:03 pm

So my question to you is this: If the USA were indeed a Commonwealth realm, who do you think would or should be the Prime Minister? And who do you think would or should be the Governor-General?


If the US kept the same system bar the Electoral College, but had a bicameral legislature like Canada and Australia, then Biden would likely be Prime Minister.

As for who would be Governor General, literally anyone. In most Commonwealth Realms, the Prime Minister makes the recommendation for Governor General to the Queen.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5322
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:07 pm

Now you listen here, sonny. We didn't beat those God damn Tory sons-of-bitches back over the pond just so they could weasel their way into our free and fair system! Good, honest patriots died telling the King to go fuck himself and you bet your ass that good, honest patriots won't stand by as the Queen takes his place! Those damn Redcoats come back and you bet your hiney General Washington's ghost will rise from the grave to lay into 'em till they're seeing Red, White, and Blue before he dumps 'em in the Boston Harbor with the tea they brought with 'em!
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Rocker & Metalhead ☆ Heretical Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀
Ես Արցախի կողքին եմ
Wanted Fugitive of the Chinese Communist Party

User avatar
Theberstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 246
Founded: Jul 09, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Theberstan » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:10 pm

Citizens of the Commonwealth... do not interfere... we are... the Brothehood of Steel.
A brief “history” of the FWO Courtesy of TDGFL

─╤══̵̵͇̿̿̿̿╦︻ Put this in your sig if you are a war profiteer ︻╦̵̵͇̿̿̿̿══╤─

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5322
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:15 pm

Theberstan wrote:Citizens of the Commonwealth... do not interfere... we are... the Brothehood of Steel.


>Todd still trying to make the Brotherhood cool

*vomits*
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Rocker & Metalhead ☆ Heretical Christian ☆
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

Reminder that Donald J. Trump is officially a traitor to the United States of America as of January 6th, 2021
The Paradox of Tolerance
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀
Ես Արցախի կողքին եմ
Wanted Fugitive of the Chinese Communist Party

User avatar
Romextly
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9421
Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Romextly » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:16 pm

I mean, this isn't even possible. But I mean, if it was, then Biden would probably be the PM

User avatar
Theberstan
Envoy
 
Posts: 246
Founded: Jul 09, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Theberstan » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:18 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Theberstan wrote:Citizens of the Commonwealth... do not interfere... we are... the Brothehood of Steel.


>Todd still trying to make the Brotherhood cool

*vomits*

Lol, the East Coast BoS: Eh, okay.
West Coast BoS: Oh now! Thews scawy momstows ouwtside.
/skipme
Last edited by Theberstan on Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A brief “history” of the FWO Courtesy of TDGFL

─╤══̵̵͇̿̿̿̿╦︻ Put this in your sig if you are a war profiteer ︻╦̵̵͇̿̿̿̿══╤─

User avatar
Old Tyrannia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 15902
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:18 pm

It would probably be better governed.
Whisky-loving Anglican monarchist and one time moderator.
"It is spiritless to think that you cannot attain to that which you have seen and heard the masters attain. The masters are men. You are also a man. If you think that you will be inferior in doing something, you will be on that road very soon."
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo

User avatar
Sanghyeok
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5030
Founded: Dec 29, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:18 pm

I read this as communist and paused for a moment.
万国の労働者よ、団結せよ!
大プロレタリアート魔法革命万 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も、その眩しさを覚えていた
Magical socialist paradise headed by an immortal, tea-loving and sometimes childish Chairwoman who happens to be the younger Ōmiya sister

Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favourite things

User avatar
Costa Fierro
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19741
Founded: Dec 09, 2013
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Costa Fierro » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:30 pm

Ariddia wrote:More to the point for this thought experiment, though, is that fact that the US would not have a President. Instead, it would have
* a Governor-General, serving as de facto head of state (technically as the Queen's representative), with a mostly ceremonial role and perhaps a few reserve powers; and
* a Prime Minister, chosen by the House of Representatives, or perhaps by Congress as a whole.


Why would the Prime Minister be chosen by the house of representatives? This isn't how it works in any Commonwealth realm.

The Prime Minister is the head of the party that either has a majority, or is the largest party in a coalition, in Parliament.
"Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist." - George Carlin

User avatar
Mississippi River Country
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: Jul 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Mississippi River Country » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:02 pm

If you mean we just take USA now and follow those rules I'll guess HRC would be in the position to be PM. Or very likely Obama since PMs in Canada don't have term limits.

Governor General might be someone like Elizabeth Warren or unironically Oprah Winfrey.

It is hard to say because the USA would look so different if it hadn't been a republic, much more whig, maybe Louisiana stays french, Northern Mexico ... who knows?
Last edited by Mississippi River Country on Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Conservative Republic Of Huang, Fahran, Galloism, Glon Lux, Great Algerstonia, Kowani, Loeje, Neanderthaland, Saiwania, The Black Forrest, Wizlandia

Advertisement

Remove ads