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"Holy grail found" as scientists reverses aging by 25 years

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What's your *first* take on this news?

YEAAAAHHH! THE FUTURE IS NOW!
11
14%
Nah, it's still far away, don't expect too much.
22
28%
Inb4 Big Pharma try to crush such an existential threat to their profit.
8
10%
Won't overpopulation, resource extraction, climate change be a problem, though...
9
11%
Uh, if boomers don't retire and die, will I get a job?
12
15%
This is but a small step to our inevitable AI-brain integration and transhumanist singularity.
4
5%
As usual, it'll just benefit the privileged bourgeoisie, except if we take action.
10
13%
Other
3
4%
 
Total votes : 79

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Resilient Acceleration
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"Holy grail found" as scientists reverses aging by 25 years

Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:57 am

Imagine you're 65 years old. Then you pay some money and sleep in a futuristic gas tube, 90 minutes a day, for three months. *abracadabra*. Now you're 40 years old, well at least if you use certain limited parameters to measure your "age". Surprise: THE FUTURE IS NOW.

Shai Efrati, a professor at Tel Aviv University who runs the Aviv Clinics in Florida, told The Jerusalem Post the study indicates that the cellular basis for the ageing process can be reversed.

“Today telomere shortening is considered the ‘Holy Grail’ of the biology of ageing,” he said.

“Researchers around the world are trying to develop pharmacological and environmental interventions that enable telomere elongation. Our HBOT protocol was able to achieve this, proving that the ageing process can in fact be reversed at the basic cellular-molecular level.”

The study, Efrati said, “gives hope and opens the door for a lot of young scientists to target ageing as a reversible disease”.

His partner at the Shamir Medical Center, Chief Medical Research Officer Amir Hadanny, said interventions such as lifestyle modifications and intense exercise have shown “some inhibiting effect on telomere shortening”, but the hyperbaric oxygen treatment is more effective.

“In our study, only three months of HBOT were able to elongate telomeres at rates far beyond any currently available interventions or lifestyle modifications,” Hadanny said.

According to the study, the physical changes were equivalent to how the participants’ bodies were at the cellular level 25 years earlier.


Key takeaways:
  • Israeli scientists say they have managed to not only successfully stop the biological ageing process, but to reverse it, using only oxygen, using a method called Hyperbaric oxygen treatments.
  • Telomere length of T helper, T cytotoxic, natural killer and B cells increased significantly, by over 20 percent, following HBOT.
  • Significant decrease in the number of senescent T helpers by -37.30%
  • This is equivalent to growing 25 years younger.
  • Hyperbaric oxygen treatments (HBOT) is already available and in use in hospitals worldwide, for other purposes.
  • To get this effect, participants age 65 and older undergo 60 therapy sessions in 3 months. IIRC, this will cost around $1100 per person.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/ ... ng-process
https://nypost.com/2020/11/20/scientist ... study/amp/
https://www.prnewswire.com/il/news-rele ... 76053.html

How does a tank of oxygen, out of all methods, do this? Well,
...Low levels of oxygen, or hypoxia, are one of the most powerful inducers of gene expression, metabolic changes, and regenerative processes, including angiogenesis and stimulation of stem cell proliferation, migration, and differentiation.

...Interestingly, fluctuations in the free oxygen concentration rather than the absolute level of oxygen can be interpreted at the cellular level as a lack of oxygen. Thus, repeated intermittent hyperoxia can induce many of the mediators and cellular mechanisms that are usually induced during hypoxia. This is called the hyperoxic-hypoxic paradox (HHP).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7355982/


I've been interested in the topic of immortality for quite some time, but this seals the deal as it's already happened. Now,
  • While the result is too jaw-dropping to be ignored, the sample size is still pretty small. (EDIT: it's 26 people. Holy crap that's pretty small. Then again, telomere elongation isn't something that can happen out of the blue. Until now, no rigorous tests have ever shown that any drug, supplement, or lifestyle change can lengthen telomeres, so the fact that this happens at all with such magnitude is surprising). More research is needed.
  • It is still unknown is this process can be repeated after you took it once.
  • It's effect on people younger than 65 isn't really known. However, there is little evidence to suggest that such technology will reduce me, currently under 25, to a lump of blastocyte.

Nevertheless, this is a major leap to humanity's quest for immortality. Is immortality here then? Probably not yet. Then again, this is only 2020—imagine the progress we will have in the next 10 years.

But even so, with this current technology, the effects could be profound. For example, if this "reverse aging by 25 years" is true, we can then convert all the 65 y/os to 40 y/os. Meaning, for example, we can subsidize this tech, overwhelmingly cut state pension and healthcare spending, and free up an unfathomble amount of funds—potentially even more funds than if we reduce defense spending to near zero. Imagine: we might be able to fund Green New Deal and cut taxes (or not, I haven't done the math and this is probably a baseless claim). Hell, health spending in general could collapse, as ageing is the single biggest risk factor to major diseases.

On the other hand, overpopulation. 20th century overpopulation is caused by a rapid decrease of death rate due to medical advancements, and only stop when birth rate followed suit due to education, prosperity, and contraception. With longevity reducing the death rate again, it would follow that today's birth rate will need to be reduced again to an even lower level. If not, the population's gonna increase again, an even bigger problem if we remember that around 1 in 3 jobs are being threatened by automation.

Thoughts? Is this just a fluke? Will we ever get to a relative immortality of >1000 years? Will it only be affordable for the rich? What opportunities and threat would arise with the advent of *immortality?
Last edited by Resilient Acceleration on Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:01 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Postby Cultural Posadism » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:06 am

I've been interested in this particular sort of research for a while. Didn't expect it to bear any fruits outside of lab rats anywhere in the near future. Kind of a pleasant surprise with a lot of philosophical implications.

Nevertheless, this is a major leap to humanity's quest for immortality. Is immortality here then? Probably not yet. Then again, this is only 2020—imagine the progress we will have in the next 10 years.

Big mood, this. It's gonna be interesting to see where research gets to from this point onwards. If the results can be replicated with a more representative sample...

Meaning, for example, we can subsidize this tech, overwhelmingly cut state pension and healthcare spending, and free up an unfathomble amount of funds—potentially even more funds than if we reduce defense spending to near zero. Imagine: we might be able to fund Green New Deal and cut taxes (or not, I haven't done the math and this is probably a baseless claim). Hell, health spending in general could collapse, as ageing is the single biggest risk factor to major diseases.

This would be a pretty good incentive for conservatives to jump on this train with both feet... but I doubt conservative dogmatism will allow for it to be widely implemented as part of such a seemingly logical public policy. :P

On the other hand, overpopulation. 20th century overpopulation is caused by a rapid decrease of death rate due to medical advancements, and only stop when birth rate followed suit due to education, prosperity, and contraception. With longevity reducing the death rate again, it would follow that today's birth rate will need to be reduced again to an even lower level. If not, the population's gonna increase again, an even bigger problem if we remember that around 1 in 3 jobs are being threatened by automation.

Provided that this is accompanied by the ongoing process of falling birthrates we see in much of the "developed" and "developing" world, the chances of global overpopulation becoming a big problem should remain rather slim.

Thoughts?

First thought: this is cool and good.

Is this just a fluke?

Hopefully not, but we'll have to see.

Will we ever get to a relative immortality of >1000 years?

If this proves to be more than a fluke, I don't doubt that we'll see humans with a life expectancy above 1000 years in the future. No doubt about it.

Will it only be affordable for the rich?

Probably but hopefully not. This kinda falls under the same umbrella as automation does: the potential is there for this to be part of a radical, more humane transformation of our social and economic structures, but the current state of affairs makes it seem quite probable that nothing will fundamentally change on that front and, therefor, the benefits of this advancement might only be enjoyed by those at the top of the capitalist class.
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:17 am

Interesting
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:18 am

You would have to really enjoy climate change.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:06 am

I eagerly await the rich buying all these secrets up and keeping them to themselves.
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:20 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I eagerly await the rich buying all these secrets up and keeping them to themselves.

I mean, I would expect literal immortality to be a highly profitable product wanted by billions. The first mover to bring longevity mainstream will literally end Big Pharma and reap all the market for themselves.
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Postby Valrifell » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:22 am

Some say that the first person who could live forever if they wanted is already alive right now.
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:23 am

Resilient Acceleration wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:I eagerly await the rich buying all these secrets up and keeping them to themselves.

I mean, I would expect literal immortality to be a highly profitable product wanted by billions. The first mover to bring longevity mainstream will literally end Big Pharma and reap all the market for themselves.

Which is why it will never happen. The pharmaceutical industry won’t let it
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Postby Johto- » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:28 am

Valrifell wrote:Some say that the first person who could live forever if they wanted is already alive right now.

Yes, and her name is Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Mountbatten-Windsor.
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:29 am

Johto- wrote:
Valrifell wrote:Some say that the first person who could live forever if they wanted is already alive right now.

Yes, and her name is Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Mountbatten-Windsor.

When long may she reign is taken literally
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Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:33 am

Damn it, why didn't I think of this!

Well, regardless, hooray. What does defense spending have to do with this again?
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Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:36 am

Johto- wrote:
Valrifell wrote:Some say that the first person who could live forever if they wanted is already alive right now.

Yes, and her name is Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Mountbatten-Windsor.

When Lizzy II reaches 104 she will use this on herself and revert back to her 1950's form.
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:37 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:Damn it, why didn't I think of this!

Well, regardless, hooray. What does defense spending have to do with this again?

Many people want to cut defense spending to fund a multitude of things. With the advent of immortality rendering swathes of pension and healthcare programs irrelevant though, we will achieve far more than that without cutting a single dime from the defense sector. We literally don't have to do anything (well, except cutting those soon-to-be-irrelevant programs).
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Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:41 am

Resilient Acceleration wrote:
Exalted Inquellian State wrote:Damn it, why didn't I think of this!

Well, regardless, hooray. What does defense spending have to do with this again?

Many people want to cut defense spending to fund a multitude of things. With the advent of immortality rendering swathes of pension and healthcare programs irrelevant though, we will achieve far more than that without cutting a single dime from the defense sector. We literally don't have to do anything (well, except cutting those soon-to-be-irrelevant programs).

I'm not sure how much healthcare and pensions cost, but the Defense Budget is 681 Billion. The Low estimate of the Green new deal is estimated to be 6.6 Trillion by Democrats, with republicans giving it 93 Trillion, and a few independent scientists giving it in-between.
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Postby Picairn » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:46 am

So if I use it now, will I instantly become a sperm? I'm younger than 25.
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:46 am

Picairn wrote:So if I use it now, will I instantly become a sperm? I'm younger than 25.

I feel old
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Postby New American Unionist State » Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:49 am

Picairn wrote:So if I use it now, will I instantly become a sperm? I'm younger than 25.

LOL

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Resilient Acceleration
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:02 am

Exalted Inquellian State wrote:
Resilient Acceleration wrote:Many people want to cut defense spending to fund a multitude of things. With the advent of immortality rendering swathes of pension and healthcare programs irrelevant though, we will achieve far more than that without cutting a single dime from the defense sector. We literally don't have to do anything (well, except cutting those soon-to-be-irrelevant programs).

I'm not sure how much healthcare and pensions cost, but the Defense Budget is 681 Billion. The Low estimate of the Green new deal is estimated to be 6.6 Trillion by Democrats, with republicans giving it 93 Trillion, and a few independent scientists giving it in-between.

To be fair, what I meant by "achieve far more" is "get funds to fund multiple things" as opposed to "fullfilling all the Democrats' wet dream". Also, GND isn't really a comprehensive proposal yet, and will probably see major reductions if it ever enter a serious Congress debate stage, especially with future technologies potentially disrupting our current idea of climate policies. In particular, rampant energy optimizations everywhere is one I'm looking forward the most, though I haven't actually dive deep to that subject.

It's also not like we gonna cut Social Security by 72% overnight. Buuut, as already happened in the past, we can increase the retirement age by a little bit, say to 70. Then 90. Then 150....

This brings an interesting question though. If longevity corporations start to market their products at an affordable price, like a smartphone, and if the question of pension and healthcare are rendered irrelevant, won't this greatly distrupt left-wing politics? After all, Sanders' main program is Medicare-for-all. (Also, the thought of modern left-wing politics being destroyed by free market innovation is just hilarious). With those two issue out of the way, folks like Andrew Yang could take over, promising to address the next problem—automation-related unemployment—by promising an even larger UBI, now with a dose of realism. (Of course left-wing politician could just jump en masse to the #YangGang and claim the movement as theirs, but who knows).
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:10 am

Also in any case, what makes this technology (if realized) even more game changing is that by the time all the elders return to their original state 25 years later, longevity techs would've improved so much more. Then that age reset from 65 to 40 can be repeated or even increased, while at the same time, development accelerates even faster...
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:12 am

Picairn wrote:So if I use it now, will I instantly become a sperm? I'm younger than 25.

I doubt sleeping in an oxygen-rich tube 90 minutes a day for 3 months would reduce you to a unicellular being. Come back in 70 years, though. Who knows :D
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Postby Exalted Inquellian State » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:25 am

Resilient Acceleration wrote:
Picairn wrote:So if I use it now, will I instantly become a sperm? I'm younger than 25.

I doubt sleeping in an oxygen-rich tube 90 minutes a day for 3 months would reduce you to a unicellular being. Come back in 70 years, though. Who knows :D

We'll have to make this a megathread so we don't get warned for gravedigging then.
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Langenia
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Postby Langenia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:27 am

Wait, that is the weirdest news I've ever heard in my life. Stopping aging by 25 years? Wow. Just wow.
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Postby Resilient Acceleration » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:31 am

Langenia wrote:Wait, that is the weirdest news I've ever heard in my life. Stopping aging by 25 years? Wow. Just wow.

To be honest, from the content of the report, I'm not really convinced that it can return *all* the cells in your body to a youthful stage. That is, I don't think 65 y/o face wrinkles will just retract back into a smoother 40 y/o wrinkles. In terms of general health though, it does seemed to be very promising, and most importantly it will buy people more than enough time to wait for new techs to come up.
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Langenia
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Postby Langenia » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:32 am

Resilient Acceleration wrote:
Langenia wrote:Wait, that is the weirdest news I've ever heard in my life. Stopping aging by 25 years? Wow. Just wow.

To be honest, from the content of the report, I'm not really convinced that it reverse all cells in your body. That is, I don't think 65 y/o face wrinkles will just retract back into a smoother 40 y/o wrinkles. In terms of general health though, it doea seem to be very promising, and most importantly it will buy people more than enough time to wait for new techs to come up.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. It just seemed to good to be believe, so I assumed it just had some more, minor effects.
Langenia is an MT-early PMT nation located in northern South America, the result of Spain not successfully colonizing the region but leaving its mark. Some NS stats are used. We outceviche CevicheHut.
Co-founder of CITO and Member of CATO. Allies: LITA
NEWS: Officials say Langenia did not shoot down Santa Claus on Christmas Eve, as he delivered presents on Christmas. Wreckage is that of a helicopter attempting to fly over restricted Aragon airspace.| US Republicans refuse to boot Langenia from F-35 program and impose CAATSA sanctions on Langenia for S-400 purchase, tout selling Patriot SAMs and attack helicopters.| Langenia buys American Pfizer COVID vaccine and issues it with own, speeding up vaccination efforts.

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Postby Pax Nerdvana » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:39 am

Science is cool like that. Personally, I wouldn't mind being in better shape when I'm elderly.
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