[R] Trolling China images thread

[The Free Joy State]

Calling exterminating people "completely moral" seems like a statement designed to draw angry responses (emphasis mine)

Hitler was a huge asshole. However he did at least try to get German workers to have vacations near the Baltic Sea and increased the ration for ethnic Germans. Nazism at its core is very simple: all is fair in tribal relations. Exterminating others is completely moral. That’s actually a very primitive tribal form of morality. Stalin was also a huge asshole. However he did in fact treat ethnic Georgians and to a less extant other Transcaucasian people fairly well. Ordzhonikidze, Beria and Mikoyan got into power likely with his genuine help. Even Hitler had Volkdeutsche all over Europe in mind. On the other hand China watched while Khmer Rouge murdered ethnic Chinese Cambodians without stopping the aid to Khmer Rouge (when they did the same to ethnic Vietnamese their former North Vietnamese allies invaded and kicked Khmer Rouge out since despite Communism even North Vietnam could not tolerate foreigners murdering ethnic Vietnamese) and did not give a shit when Indonesia had anti-ethnic Chinese pogroms.

You don’t seem to understand why I want to abolish China. China has failed at being either a healthy multiethnic state or an ethnostate. Healthy multiethnic states protect the rights of all citizens. Ethnostates should protect rights of members of an ethnic group. By treating ethnic Han Chinese both inside and outside China like shit China failed at being an ethnostate. By treating ethnic minorities such as Uyghurs like shit China has failed at being a healthy and responsible multiethnic state. By causing a lot of climate change & pollution China has failed at being a responsible state on the planet. China simply shouldn’t exist. Period.

Also this attempt at derogatorily nicknaming the Chinese population:

Ha? Your point was that Chinese leaders have always been evil. Cbinese leaders in Taiwan and Hong Kong aren't

Ah I see what the issue is. The word “Chinese” needs to be properly defined. *Ethnic* Chinese leaders do not have to be evil. Leaders of *China* on the other hand are almost always evil. One solution is either labeling any China-related things Sinostatist (I.e. the Sinostate, the Sinostatist dictator, Sinostatist concentration camps, Sinostatist censorship etc) while reserving the word “Chinese” for a culture/ethnic group. Alternatively these things need to be labeled “Chinese” while the people need to be labeled “Sinoslave”, “Sinohostages”, “Hua people” or something else.

And now another player baiting the OP, saying that he is "the crazy one" and not take him seriously:

GHK has created so much hate and misunderstanding on NSG -- though admittedly always from a sincere DIE CHINA I HATE YOU base -- that I almost feel I should argue with them.

But no, after all. It's not my place to defend the forum. I'll go with the herd and shun the crazy one trying to lead us. He's only getting worse: I thought maybe it was losing his Trump that had him worked up, but now I think it's not getting the respect and consideration he thinks he deserves from the forum.

Don't take him seriously and it is only a matter of time before GHK starts breaking rules and gets booted. General is not the audience he's looking for.

[Nakena]

The first statement appears to be taken out of context and it's a descriptive analysis of what the poster believes to be Hitler moral values and ideology. It is not a call for genocide but an analysis of nazism.

[The Free Joy State]

The first statement appears to be taken out of context and it's a descriptive analysis of what the poster believes to be Hitler moral values and ideology. It is not a call for genocide but an however controversial analysis of nazism.

I do not intend to argue in moderation, but rather to highlight, for the benefit of Moderation, that Neko explicitly said the beliefs were "actually a very primitive tribal form of morality", which reads as the player expressing a view that the actions were moral, which would thus make it supportive of genocide. In fact, the whole post is Neko viewing China as worse than Hitler because they do not throw their all behind making their nation a full ethnostate (or, to be fair to Neko's argument, a multiethnic state).

[Farnhamia]

The first statement appears to be taken out of context and it's a descriptive analysis of what the poster believes to be Hitler moral values and ideology. It is not a call for genocide but an analysis of nazism.

*** Warned for spamming Moderation ***

Do not post in report threads unless you are directly involved (reporter or reported) or you have evidence to offer. Your opinion is not evidence.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

The first statement appears to be taken out of context and it's a descriptive analysis of what the poster believes to be Hitler moral values and ideology. It is not a call for genocide but an however controversial analysis of nazism.

I do not intend to argue in moderation, but rather to highlight, for the benefit of Moderation, that Neko explicitly said the beliefs were "actually a very primitive tribal form of morality", which reads as the player expressing a view that the actions were moral, which would thus make it supportive of genocide. In fact, the whole post is Neko viewing China as worse than Hitler because they do not throw their all behind making their nation a full ethnostate (or, to be fair to Neko's argument, a multiethnic state).

“A very primitive tribal form of morality” is clearly not an endorsement but instead it is a criticism. Nor did I argue that China is worse than Nazi Germany for NOT committing genocide (since it is and I oppose it).

“Sinoslave” is a necessary term and if you view it in context you can easily see that the intention is to disassociate atrocities of totalitarian China from the Chinese who due to inability to influence the government should not be held morally responsible for what China does.

[Farnhamia]

Now, the two Nekostan-e posts are not actionable. I agree with Nakena on the first one. On the second, the prefix "Sino-" is a fairly standard way of indicating something has to do with China. For "Hua," see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaxia.

I'll give NB2 an Ominous Loom, at a minimum.

NB2 gets a little time off.

[Glorious Hong Kong]

I'll give NB2 an Ominous Loom, at a minimum.

NB2 gets a little time off.

Thanks so much Farn! *Leaves Pfizer vaccine shots*

[The Free Joy State]

Now, the two Nekostan-e posts are not actionable. I agree with Nakena on the first one. On the second, the prefix "Sino-" is a fairly standard way of indicating something has to do with China. For "Hua," see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaxia.

I'll give NB2 an Ominous Loom, at a minimum.

Thank you for your ruling on NB2.

But, on the second Neko post, I will note that "Sino" was not the part that seemed objectionable. Saying that the entirety of the people of a nation ought not be called by their proper name but by derogatory nicknames, specifically "slaves" and "hostages", still seems trollish, IMO. Similar to, "British should be used for the culture, but the people should be called "Britslaves"."

Brit is the standard root, but adding "slave" is still derogatory.

[Farnhamia]

Now, the two Nekostan-e posts are not actionable. I agree with Nakena on the first one. On the second, the prefix "Sino-" is a fairly standard way of indicating something has to do with China. For "Hua," see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaxia.

I'll give NB2 an Ominous Loom, at a minimum.

Thank you for your ruling on NB2.

But, on the second Neko post, I will note that "Sino" was not the part that seemed objectionable. Saying that the entirety of the people of a nation ought not be called by their proper name but by derogatory nicknames, specifically "slaves" and "hostages", still seems trollish, IMO. Similar to, "British should be used for the culture, but the people should be called "Britslaves"."

Brit is the standard root, but adding "slave" is still derogatory.

I took it as sympathetic, saying that the people are slaves and hostages.

[The Free Joy State]

Thank you for your ruling on NB2.

But, on the second Neko post, I will note that "Sino" was not the part that seemed objectionable. Saying that the entirety of the people of a nation ought not be called by their proper name but by derogatory nicknames, specifically "slaves" and "hostages", still seems trollish, IMO. Similar to, "British should be used for the culture, but the people should be called "Britslaves"."

Brit is the standard root, but adding "slave" is still derogatory.

I took it as sympathetic, saying that the people are slaves and hostages.

OK. Thank you.

[Punished UMN]

No, Chinese people should not have the right to exist.

[Farnhamia]

No, Chinese people should not have the right to exist.

viewtopic.php?p=38031330#p38031330

[Punished UMN]

viewtopic.php?p=38031330#p38031330

Thanks!

[Devionsa]

China is worse than nonexistence.

[Lamoni]

China is worse than nonexistence.

Addressed.

[Devionsa]

Thanks!

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Thank you for your ruling on NB2.

But, on the second Neko post, I will note that "Sino" was not the part that seemed objectionable. Saying that the entirety of the people of a nation ought not be called by their proper name but by derogatory nicknames, specifically "slaves" and "hostages", still seems trollish, IMO. Similar to, "British should be used for the culture, but the people should be called "Britslaves"."

Brit is the standard root, but adding "slave" is still derogatory.

I took it as sympathetic, saying that the people are slaves and hostages.

It is as I was born a Sinoslave myself. In Mandarin an appropriate way to express this idea is 秦奴 (slaves of the Qin). Sinoslaves are not morally responsible for what China does in the same sense that African American slaves were not guilty of war against United States by being slaves (and hence contributing to the Confederate war efforts).

China is committing a lot of crimes. What’s worse is that it is committing even more crimes. How can we not separate Sinoslaves from China so that the just retribution does not fall on the innocent? I think 30 years later nobody would want to be called “Chinese” for the same reason why Adolf, once an innocuous name, has become taboo due to association with the most infamous Adolf in history. This is why terms such as Sinoslaves are not only non-derogatory but also necessary.

[Lamoni]

I took it as sympathetic, saying that the people are slaves and hostages.

It is as I was born a Sinoslave myself. In Mandarin an appropriate way to express this idea is 秦奴 (slaves of the Qin). Sinoslaves are not morally responsible for what China does in the same sense that African American slaves were not guilty of war against United States by being slaves (and hence contributing to the Confederate war efforts).

China is committing a lot of crimes. What’s worse is that it is committing even more crimes. How can we not separate Sinoslaves from China so that the just retribution does not fall on the innocent? I think 30 years later nobody would want to be called “Chinese” for the same reason why Adolf, once an innocuous name, has become taboo due to association with the most infamous Adolf in history. This is why terms such as Sinoslaves are not only non-derogatory but also necessary.

Please keep in mind that this is not a debate thread.

[Devionsa]

The only solution is abolition of China. Unlike Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan that actually care about at least their own ethnic group, China famously doesn’t. It isn’t even a communism-induced phenomenon as every single China in history was that sociopathic. Hence China has to be abolished.

Emphasis mine.

I'm honestly not targeting Nekostan. They're just the only one saying this stuff

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

The only solution is abolition of China. Unlike Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan that actually care about at least their own ethnic group, China famously doesn’t. It isn’t even a communism-induced phenomenon as every single China in history was that sociopathic. Hence China has to be abolished.

Emphasis mine.

I'm honestly not targeting Nekostan. They're just the only one saying this stuff

How is that not allowed? There are multiple legitimate threads named “Shall China exist?” Abolition of China is not a genocidal position to take. It is very clear what my stance is. China is consistently brutal to its subjects with or without communism. Hence it is necessary to get rid of the Sinostatist tradition to liberate the subjects. Which rule has this broken?

Am I wrong in saying that Chinese dynasties from Qin to Qing were all brutal? Just look up official ancient Chinese population stats and you will know what I’m talking about.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

<edit out later additions>

And now another player baiting the OP, saying that he is "the crazy one" and not take him seriously:

GHK has created so much hate and misunderstanding on NSG -- though admittedly always from a sincere DIE CHINA I HATE YOU base -- that I almost feel I should argue with them.

But no, after all. It's not my place to defend the forum. I'll go with the herd and shun the crazy one trying to lead us. He's only getting worse: I thought maybe it was losing his Trump that had him worked up, but now I think it's not getting the respect and consideration he thinks he deserves from the forum.

Don't take him seriously and it is only a matter of time before GHK starts breaking rules and gets booted. General is not the audience he's looking for.

This charge brought against me is accurate. I did characterize GHK as "the crazy one" and do not dispute that I deserved a punishment just for that.

HOWEVER, at the time the ruling was made the charge did not read "not take him seriously". It read "tells other posters to ignore him".
The Free Joy State has since edited it, which I invite them to confirm.

So I was accused of baiting in two different ways. Then it was ruled on only as Flamebaiting.

My problem with this, is that I am absolutely certain I did not flamebait by urging Ignore. But one ruling for two charges puts me in doubt that I may have been warned for "mild flaming aggravated by ignore-cannon", or "mild flaming and mild ignore-cannon in one post" or indeed both charges were actionable.

To successfully appeal such a charge I would have to prove that I committed NEITHER offense. This is entirely unfair, and made only more so by being denied the right appeal publicly for three days, and my accuser being able to edit the charge in the meantime.

"A report is not a prosecution" I've been told previously. In this very thread The Free Joy State a prosecutorial argument after the ruling by Farnhamia ... "helpfully" suggesting the Mod might be wrong.

Now, the two Nekostan-e posts are not actionable. I agree with Nakena on the first one. On the second, the prefix "Sino-" is a fairly standard way of indicating something has to do with China. For "Hua," see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaxia.

I'll give NB2 an Ominous Loom, at a minimum.

Thank you for your ruling on NB2.

But, on the second Neko post, I will note that "Sino" was not the part that seemed objectionable. Saying that the entirety of the people of a nation ought not be called by their proper name but by derogatory nicknames, specifically "slaves" and "hostages", still seems trollish, IMO. Similar to, "British should be used for the culture, but the people should be called "Britslaves"."

Brit is the standard root, but adding "slave" is still derogatory.

If any other poster had made an argument like this in Moderation, they would have been warned. Nakena in fact was. But because TFJS was the OP and reporting poster, they're allowed to. They're politely rebutted.

And how is the defense heard?

It is as I was born a Sinoslave myself. In Mandarin an appropriate way to express this idea is 秦奴 (slaves of the Qin). Sinoslaves are not morally responsible for what China does in the same sense that African American slaves were not guilty of war against United States by being slaves (and hence contributing to the Confederate war efforts).

China is committing a lot of crimes. What’s worse is that it is committing even more crimes. How can we not separate Sinoslaves from China so that the just retribution does not fall on the innocent? I think 30 years later nobody would want to be called “Chinese” for the same reason why Adolf, once an innocuous name, has become taboo due to association with the most infamous Adolf in history. This is why terms such as Sinoslaves are not only non-derogatory but also necessary.

Please keep in mind that this is not a debate thread.

Not at all it seems.

Prosecution without the right to defense is fundamentally unjust. You're allowing posters to prosecute each other in Moderation without any guarantee the defense will be heard before judgement is made. Or even that they'll be heard by a different Mod than made the ruling. There is not even a fair right of appeal. The average Joe deserves better than this.

[Devionsa]

Emphasis mine.

I'm honestly not targeting Nekostan. They're just the only one saying this stuff

How is that not allowed? There are multiple legitimate threads named “Shall China exist?” Abolition of China is not a genocidal position to take. It is very clear what my stance is. China is consistently brutal to its subjects with or without communism. Hence it is necessary to get rid of the Sinostatist tradition to liberate the subjects. Which rule has this broken?

Am I wrong in saying that Chinese dynasties from Qin to Qing were all brutal? Just look up official ancient Chinese population stats and you will know what I’m talking about.

This is not a debate thread. However, my main points are that your statement is an "all X are Y" one and that you're constantly bringing up abolishing China in a thread about a politician tweeting a political comic mocking ADF war crimes. It isn't the thread for ''Shall China exist".

[The Free Joy State]

<edit out later additions>

And now another player baiting the OP, saying that he is "the crazy one" and not take him seriously:

This charge brought against me is accurate. I did characterize GHK as "the crazy one" and do not dispute that I deserved a punishment just for that.

HOWEVER, at the time the ruling was made the charge did not read "not take him seriously". It read "tells other posters to ignore him".
The Free Joy State has since edited it, which I invite them to confirm.

Not to spam moderation, but if you look at the last edit on the OP, it was many hours before the ruling was made. I am also basically certain that the wording used on that specific report always read "not to take him seriously", but I have no way of confirming.

EDIT: Further to the post below, should it be important (as I appear to be being accused of acting somehow dishonestly or improperly with regards to my reports), the order of my reports was Neko (first post), Nobel Hobos 2, Neko (second post) -- in order of the time stamps on the posts, and as I came across them.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

This charge brought against me is accurate. I did characterize GHK as "the crazy one" and do not dispute that I deserved a punishment just for that.

HOWEVER, at the time the ruling was made the charge did not read "not take him seriously". It read "tells other posters to ignore him".
The Free Joy State has since edited it, which I invite them to confirm.

Not to spam moderation, but if you look at the last edit on the OP, it was many hours before the ruling was made. I am also basically certain that the wording used on that specific report always read "not to take him seriously", but I have no way of confirming.

OK. I have no way of confirming either. I looked at your OP post at least 3 times before it had any edits, and I am very sure that the word "ignore" was used to refer to they post you first reported (ie, mine). Really, very sure.

However, your reputation with me is unimpeachable, and I won't call you a liar.

I still think that your description you gave of my post, two bad things about it which you described ahead of a Mod reading the post, is prone to bias the Moderator in reading the reported post. It is unnecessary, at best, to describe the offense you believe to be in the post. Surely a Moderator can find the offence in a short post, if there is one there?

[New Visayan Islands]

Friendly reminder that this thread is not a debate thread. Reports go here, debates go to the thread in question.

Thanks!
NVI