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[Pulled] Repeal SC#245: Liberate Kaiserreich

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Starfyre
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[Pulled] Repeal SC#245: Liberate Kaiserreich

Postby Starfyre » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:58 am

So, I don't do repeals very often. It's not something I have a lot of experience on, as I would rather write commendations or condemnations. I hinted on discord that I might try this, and it's safe to say I've drafted it. Feedback is appreciated :). I know that this might be controversial, but I believe this liberation is pointless now as Scansinia is still going strong two years later.

The Security Council,

Noting that at the time of its passage Security Council Resolution 245 (SC#245) was targeted at a region widely regarded as having Nazi/fascist tendencies;

Pointing out that the region's founder nation, Scansinia, is still around in full control of the community more than two years later despite the belief that the nation would be destroyed through either internal rebellion or the will of the almighty Violet;

Believing that since the passage of SC#245 Kaiserreich has improved on its widely held status of being a proponent of Nazi/Fascist ideology, being officially removed from the list of Nazi regions maintained by Civil Defence Siren as a base to warn innocent nations away from evil regions;

Acknowledging that at the time of the passage of SC#245 Kaiserreich had almost thirty World Assembly nations within its borders, a number which over the last two years has dwindled to under fifteen, making Kaiserreich a region which no longer poses a serious threat to regions different than theirs;

Further Believing that the Liberation had an effect upon the regional community, and that that effect will remain even after it is removed by this repeal resolution;

Hereby Repeals Security Council Resolution #245.
Last edited by Starfyre on Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:51 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:49 am

Hi Kuriko,

Couple of points:
Stating for the purposes of this resolution to repeal SC#245 that the target region, Kaiserreich, has not had it's founder nation sundered through anarchical means throughout the last two-and-a-half years and remains stable under Scansinia;

Should be “had its founder”, not “had it's founder”. Also the clause feels a little clunky.
Acknowledging that at the time of the passage of SC#245 Kaiserreich had over twenty World Assembly nations within it's borders, a number which over the last two years has dwindled to under ten, making Kaiserreich a region which no longer poses a serious threat to regions different than theirs;

I counted 14 WA nations there today.

You make a good case for repeal, Kaiserreich seemed to have changed since the Liberation was passed. I’ll be interested in what others think.
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Starfyre
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Postby Starfyre » Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:07 am

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Hi Kuriko,

Couple of points:
Stating for the purposes of this resolution to repeal SC#245 that the target region, Kaiserreich, has not had it's founder nation sundered through anarchical means throughout the last two-and-a-half years and remains stable under Scansinia;

Should be “had its founder”, not “had it's founder”. Also the clause feels a little clunky.
Acknowledging that at the time of the passage of SC#245 Kaiserreich had over twenty World Assembly nations within it's borders, a number which over the last two years has dwindled to under ten, making Kaiserreich a region which no longer poses a serious threat to regions different than theirs;

I counted 14 WA nations there today.

You make a good case for repeal, Kaiserreich seemed to have changed since the Liberation was passed. I’ll be interested in what others think.

Thanks BBD, I've edited it. That Stating clause was changed quite a bit though, just trying to inject some RP type deal on the demise of a founder nation :).
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Postby Tinhampton » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:47 am

this proposal is a super serious bruh moment
Starfyre wrote:Pointing out that the regions founder nation,
Scansinia, is still... [SNIP]

Firstly, that's supposed to be "region's," not "regions;" secondly, you have a line break that doesn't need to be there after "nation" :P

Starfyre wrote:Further Believing that the Liberation had an effect upon the regional community, and that that effect will remain even after it is removed by this repeal resolution

That being its depopulation?
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Postby Starfyre » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:06 am

Tinhampton wrote:this proposal is a super serious bruh moment
Starfyre wrote:Pointing out that the regions founder nation,
Scansinia, is still... [SNIP]

Firstly, that's supposed to be "region's," not "regions;" secondly, you have a line break that doesn't need to be there after "nation" :P

Starfyre wrote:Further Believing that the Liberation had an effect upon the regional community, and that that effect will remain even after it is removed by this repeal resolution

That being its depopulation?

Fixed it, #mobilephonewoes. It kept doing that line break every time I tried, and I finally got it. The effect is that they changed from a clear pro-nazi/Nazi collaborator region to a non-nazi/Nazi collaborator region, and that that effect will continue even after it's gone.
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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:30 am

Support.

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Starfyre
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Postby Starfyre » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:17 am

I've never been really sure about how long repeals need to be drafted, but at the same time the SC has been rather quiet over the last few days. Any more thoughts on the proposal?
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Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 am

Starfyre wrote:I've never been really sure about how long repeals need to be drafted, but at the same time the SC has been rather quiet over the last few days. Any more thoughts on the proposal?

This could definitely do with more than a few days of drafting. I think you should leave it for a week or so
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:34 am

Also...

1. "Nazi/fascist" or "Nazi/Fascist?" Please be consistent :P
2. "it's" should be spelled "its" in the ACKNOWLEDGING clause
3. still supportive of this
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Postby Kaboomlandia » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:57 am

This ticks all the boxes for me. Third party, they've reformed, the liberation doesn't have a functional purpose, and KReich's been relatively uncontroversial the past while. Support :)
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Postby Starfyre » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:04 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Also...

1. "Nazi/fascist" or "Nazi/Fascist?" Please be consistent :P
2. "it's" should be spelled "its" in the ACKNOWLEDGING clause
3. still supportive of this

Fixed.
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North American Imperial State
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Postby North American Imperial State » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:51 pm

Fully support
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:15 pm

Kaboomlandia wrote:This ticks all the boxes for me. Third party, they've reformed, the liberation doesn't have a functional purpose, and KReich's been relatively uncontroversial the past while. Support :)

This sums up my feelings on the matter.
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Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:46 pm

I feel like the Pointing Out clause isn't really needed - seems to me the focus would be better just on "they have reformed, and thus pose no further threat" as the other clauses do.
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Postby Praeceps » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:16 pm

I'm not a fan of how this is written although I would currently support a repeal (subject to further information of course). Several of the clauses gives the impression that the resolution is being repealed because it was ineffective. Mainly the clause about the WA but also the one about the founder give me that impression.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:59 pm

Starfyre wrote:
Pointing out that the region's founder nation, Scansinia, is still around in full control of the community more than two years later despite the belief that the nation would be destroyed through either internal rebellion or the will of the almighty [Violet];


The brackets around [violet] give me a really weird vibe for some reason. Maybe you could just use ‘Violet’

Believing that since the passage of SC#245 Kaiserreich has improved on its widely held status of being a proponent of Nazi/Fascist ideology, being officially removed from the list of Nazi regions maintained by Civil Defence Siren;


Anyone can maintain a list of fascist regions, you have to explain the significance of CDS.

Other than that, support I guess.
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Postby Sedgistan » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:23 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Starfyre wrote:
Pointing out that the region's founder nation, Scansinia, is still around in full control of the community more than two years later despite the belief that the nation would be destroyed through either internal rebellion or the will of the almighty [Violet];


The brackets around [violet] give me a really weird vibe for some reason. Maybe you could just use ‘Violet’

Yeah, [violet] is a site admin account and not going to be Rule 4 compliant; Violet is a deity established within the NS reality, and fine to mention.

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Starfyre
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Postby Starfyre » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:27 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Starfyre wrote:
Pointing out that the region's founder nation, Scansinia, is still around in full control of the community more than two years later despite the belief that the nation would be destroyed through either internal rebellion or the will of the almighty [Violet];


The brackets around [violet] give me a really weird vibe for some reason. Maybe you could just use ‘Violet’

Believing that since the passage of SC#245 Kaiserreich has improved on its widely held status of being a proponent of Nazi/Fascist ideology, being officially removed from the list of Nazi regions maintained by Civil Defence Siren;


Anyone can maintain a list of fascist regions, you have to explain the significance of CDS.

Other than that, support I guess.

Kind of tried, see how that looks. I don't like being too wordy, so if you have a writing suggestion let me know.

Sedgistan wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:
The brackets around [violet] give me a really weird vibe for some reason. Maybe you could just use ‘Violet’

Yeah, [violet] is a site admin account and not going to be Rule 4 compliant; Violet is a deity established within the NS reality, and fine to mention.

Fair enough, fixed :)
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Postby Goobergunchia » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:06 pm

Starfyre wrote:Further Believing that the Liberation had an effect upon the regional community, and that that effect will remain even after it is removed by this repeal resolution;

If the resolution is effective, than that's an argument against repealing it. I think the point of this clause is that the Liberation had its intended impact and at this point it (1) won't have any further effect and (2) the impact it did have will persist, but for me that case needs to be made a bit more strongly -- right now, my first instinct upon reading this clause would be to say that you don't remove the umbrella because you've stopped getting wet. You've made a case that this isn't an issue elsewhere in the resolution but concluding with the current clause just undermines it.

The actual point I'd stress is (1), incidentally. There are two real arguments in this repeal: that Kaiserreich has changed and doesn't deserve to have a Liberation imposed on them (the "Believing" clause) and that the region is no longer a threat (the "Acknowledging" clause). The former is strong. The latter seems kind of weak given that you're repealing the resolution that (arguably) facilitated that, unless your argument is that this wasn't caused by the target resolution to begin with.

[Edit: And I totally didn't notice that this had already been submitted and was likely to reach quorum pretty soon, so feel free to ignore all of that.]
Last edited by Goobergunchia on Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Honister Crag » Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:41 am

Just worried that this has been approved by Jakker and a mod listed as retired and may just be an excuse for TBH to invade once this is lifted

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Postby Honeydewistania » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:03 am

Honister Crag wrote:Just worried that this has been approved by Jakker and a mod listed as retired and may just be an excuse for TBH to invade once this is lifted

Jakker marked it as legal in their capacity as a moderator, not as a raider.
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Postby Reploid Productions » Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:28 pm

Honister Crag wrote:Just worried that this has been approved by Jakker and a mod listed as retired and may just be an excuse for TBH to invade once this is lifted

Pretty sure repealing a liberation would make the region harder to successfully invade, not easier.
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Postby Honister Crag » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:56 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
Honister Crag wrote:Just worried that this has been approved by Jakker and a mod listed as retired and may just be an excuse for TBH to invade once this is lifted

Jakker marked it as legal in their capacity as a moderator, not as a raider.


It's a bit like the head of the Mafia saying I'm just doing this in my capacity with the FBI

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Postby LollerLand » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:22 am

Honister Crag wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:Jakker marked it as legal in their capacity as a moderator, not as a raider.


It's a bit like the head of the Mafia saying I'm just doing this in my capacity with the FBI

If Jakker was using his status as a mod for advancing in GP, I am sure the admins wouldn't still keep him as one. And also whatever Reppy said in the post above.
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Postby Comfed » Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:48 am

Honister Crag wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:Jakker marked it as legal in their capacity as a moderator, not as a raider.


It's a bit like the head of the Mafia saying I'm just doing this in my capacity with the FBI

The difference is trustworthiness. Jakker is trustworthy. The head of the mafia is probably not.
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