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Poland abortion ruling sparks 'women's strike'

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Nakena
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Poland abortion ruling sparks 'women's strike'

Postby Nakena » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:43 pm

Seems that 2020 gets yet another story:

Crowds have protested in several cities for the seventh-day running against the decision that outlawed terminations on the grounds of severe health defects.

An opinion poll conducted for Gazeta Wyborcza suggested that 59% of those surveyed disagreed with the change.

The powerful ruling party leader said the decision could not be reversed.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, who is also the deputy prime minister and widely considered to be the country's real powerbroker, said the protests were an attempt to "destroy" Poland. He urged people to "defend" the nation as well as the Catholic Church.

Last Thursday's ruling by the Constitutional Court closed one of the few remaining legal grounds for abortion in Poland, and followed a legal challenge by MPs from the ruling nationalist Law and Justice party (Pis) last year.

The decision means terminations are only valid in cases of rape or incest, or to protect the mother's life. Opponents say it puts women at risk by forcing them to carry a baby that is unlikely to survive birth.

But supporters insist it will prevent the abortion of foetuses diagnosed with Down's syndrome. The ruling cannot be appealed against but only comes into force after it is published in the official gazette though it is not clear when that will happen.

The organisers said many firms had agreed to let women employees take the day off in a protest inspired by a women's strike in Iceland in 1975 and resembling another Polish demonstration held in 2016.

But with no reliable figures available it was impossible to say how widespread the strike was, the BBC's Adam Easton in Warsaw reports.

People shout slogans and hold banners as they participate in a national strike during the seventh day of protests against the Constitutional Court ruling. Protests have been held in the capital Warsaw and elsewhere.

Street demonstrations are being held in several cities across the country, with tens of thousands of people in attendance, local media report. In the capital, Warsaw, people chanted "this is war".

Speaking to the BBC, Deputy Foreign Minister Pawel Jablonski said the ruling protected the unborn from discrimination on the grounds of health defects.

"It's a cruel thing to do, to kill unborn children on the basis of the fact that they may carry a Down's syndrome... Should we discriminate against people with Down's syndrome? These people have the exact same right as every other human being," he said.

On Tuesday, scuffles erupted in parliament, with centrist and left-wing MPs holding up placards saying "shame" and shouting pro-choice slogans at Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki.

The conservative speaker of parliament compared the red lightning bolt that is symbol of the protest movement to Nazi imagery.

Agnieszka Dziemianowicz-Bak, a left-leaning MP, told the BBC: "We tried to show solidarity with the protesters that filled up the streets and demanded what they're demanding... a real debate about the full reproductive rights for women."
Female opposition deputies block the rostrum of the Sejm as the "For Life" programs were announced in the Lower House in Warsawimage copyrightEPA
image captionCentrist and left-wing MPs held up placards and shouted pro-choice slogans in parliament

But in a video message on Facebook, Mr Kaczynski said no other ruling by the court could have been consistent with the constitution, which has an article saying the country "shall ensure the legal protection of the life of every human being".

Opposition Civic Coalition leader Borys Budka reacted by saying that words calling for "hatred, inciting civil war and using party forces to attack citizens are a crime," according to AP news agency.

Earlier, Mr Morawiecki called for an end to the demonstrations, saying protesters were disregarding "massive risks" from the coronavirus pandemic.

He added: "The freedom of choice truly is a fundamental thing but we should all agree that in order to have this freedom of choice, one needs to be alive. The one who is dead cannot implement one's right of freedom of choice."
What's the background?

Abortion is a deeply divisive issue in Poland, which already had one of the strictest laws in Europe. A 2014 opinion poll by the CBOS research centre found that 65% of Poles surveyed were against abortion, 27% saw it as acceptable and 8% were undecided.

However, for years opinion polls have found a clear majority against the latest tightening of the law.

There are just over 1,000 legal abortions every year in Poland, but women's groups say the number of abortions carried out illegally or abroad could be between 80,000 and 120,000.

Almost all legal abortions - 98% last year - have so far been carried out on grounds of severe foetal defect, which has now been ruled out as a valid reason.

Observers say the government and the PiS seem to have been taken by surprise by the size of the protests, which have also contributed to unusually strong criticism towards the Catholic Church.

The influence of the Church is waning among younger generations, and the protests have been attended by large numbers of young women. On Sunday, groups targeted churches and some services were disrupted.

There is also anger at the way the government pushed the change through without parliamentary debate or public consultation.


Sauce: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54716780

Second Sauces:

CBS: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poland-abo ... al-strike/
Al-Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/ ... ortion-ban

Looks like Poland is about to face a general woman strike. Or whatever.

Obligatory OP-opinion: considering the very low number of legal abortions (around 1000) and 98% of them due medical reasons, i am somewhat surprised that they further restricted the laws regarding it.
Last edited by Nakena on Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:50 pm

Nakena wrote:Obligatory OP-opinion: considering the very low number of legal abortions (around 1000) and 98% of them due medical reasons, i am somewhat surprised that they further restricted the laws regarding it.

I ain't. To my understanding poland is one of the religious hotspots here on the continent. And we all know what that means.
But it's their country so who am I to judge?
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The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

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Deacarsia
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Poland abortion ruling sparks “women’s strike”

Postby Deacarsia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:55 pm

This is an excellent ruling, and a “women’s strike” would just demonstrate the wisdom of traditional gender roles, as it actually would have a net positive effect.
Sic enim Deus dilexit mundum, ut Filium suum unigenitum daret: ut omnis qui credit in eum, non pereat, sed habeat vitam æternam.

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Postby Chuka-Koku » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:59 pm

I stand with the brave women of Poland, who fight against this ruling. Abortion access is critical, and is a human right nobody should ever take away. May their strike be successful.
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Postby Odreria » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:01 am

I don't think children with down syndrome should not be aborted, but this ruling seems overly strict.
If pregnant women just hop the border anyway, would I be wrong in thinking that it's mostly posturing?
Last edited by Odreria on Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Necroghastia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:01 am

Deacarsia wrote:This is an excellent ruling, and a “women’s strike” would just demonstrate the wisdom of traditional gender roles, as it actually would have a net positive effect.

"The wisdom of traditional gender roles" being?
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Chuka-Koku
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Postby Chuka-Koku » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:02 am

Odreria wrote:I don't think children with down syndrome should not be aborted, but this ruling seems overly strict.
If pregnant women just hop the border anyway, would I be wrong in thinking that this is mostly posturing?


This is not a ruling against pregnant women. This is a ruling against poor pregnant women, like all anti-abortion rulings are.
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Postby Albrenia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:16 am

Deacarsia wrote:This is an excellent ruling, and a “women’s strike” would just demonstrate the wisdom of traditional gender roles, as it actually would have a net positive effect.


Lol. How will the striking of a large portion of the workforce have a 'net positive effect'?

Seems a bit deluded to think that makes sense.

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Deacarsia
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Poland abortion ruling sparks “women’s strike”

Postby Deacarsia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:16 am

Chuka-Koku wrote:I stand with the brave women of Poland, who fight against this ruling. Abortion access is critical, and is a human right nobody should ever take away. May their strike be successful.

I stand against these wicked women in Poland, who fight against this just ruling. Abortion prohibition is critical, and abortion is an atrocity no society should ever permit. May their strike never end.

Necroghastia wrote:"The wisdom of traditional gender roles" being?

Self-explanatory.

Chuka-Koku wrote:This is not a ruling against pregnant women. This is a ruling against poor pregnant women, like all anti-abortion rulings are.

This is not a ruling against anyone. This is a ruling for the rights of the unborn, like all pro-life rulings are.

Albrenia wrote:Lol. How will the striking of a large portion of the workforce have a 'net positive effect'?

Seems a bit deluded to think that makes sense.

There is more to life than material wealth, though I seriously doubt that this strike will have a net negative impact even economically.
Last edited by Deacarsia on Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Necroghastia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:44 am

Deacarsia wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:"The wisdom of traditional gender roles" being?

Self-explanatory.

Not really. Elaborate pretty please?
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:47 am

Deacarsia wrote:
Chuka-Koku wrote:This is not a ruling against pregnant women. This is a ruling against poor pregnant women, like all anti-abortion rulings are.

This is not a ruling against anyone. This is a ruling for the rights of the unborn, like all pro-life rulings are.


It's a ruling that women do not have the right to control the use of their own bodies. Or are women not people any more?
Last edited by Vassenor on Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Kowani » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:50 am

Bing-bong, your rights are gone
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
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I could. But am I going to? Nah.
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Postby Chuka-Koku » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:50 am

Deacarsia wrote:
Chuka-Koku wrote:I stand with the brave women of Poland, who fight against this ruling. Abortion access is critical, and is a human right nobody should ever take away. May their strike be successful.

I stand against these wicked women in Poland, who fight against this just ruling. Abortion prohibition is critical, and abortion is an atrocity no society should ever permit. May their strike never end.

Necroghastia wrote:"The wisdom of traditional gender roles" being?

Self-explanatory.

Chuka-Koku wrote:This is not a ruling against pregnant women. This is a ruling against poor pregnant women, like all anti-abortion rulings are.

This is not a ruling against anyone. This is a ruling for the rights of the unborn, like all pro-life rulings are.

Albrenia wrote:Lol. How will the striking of a large portion of the workforce have a 'net positive effect'?

Seems a bit deluded to think that makes sense.

There is more to life than material wealth, though I seriously doubt that this strike will have a net negative impact even economically.


Calling women fighting against the intrusion of the church on private affairs wicked is just wrong. Why do you care more about an unborn non human than an actual woman's life?
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Postby Chuka-Koku » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:52 am

Kowani wrote:Bing-bong, your rights are gone


Seriously, 2920 has been terrible so far. From wildfires to corona virus to unemployment to hatred and expanding income inequality to this
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中 華 國 萬 歳
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What if China was a progressive social democracy where people only elect good looking waifus for politicians?
Oh, don't forget: Mao is a SocDem, Chiang is a Communist, and Sun Yat-sen is a waifu

KMT advisor accuses Chiang of breast, face enhancing surgery, Chiang denies claims: "Completely untrue slander", gives speech on how her beauty is 100% natural

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Postby Odreria » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:53 am

Chuka-Koku wrote:
Kowani wrote:Bing-bong, your rights are gone


Seriously, 2920 has been terrible so far. From wildfires to corona virus to unemployment to hatred and expanding income inequality to this

Just when we thought we were getting closer to a vaccine, hatred and income inequality entered the world.

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Postby Kowani » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:57 am

Chuka-Koku wrote:
Kowani wrote:Bing-bong, your rights are gone


Seriously, 2920 has been terrible so far. From wildfires to corona virus to unemployment to hatred and expanding income inequality to this

2020 is, in my view, not a unique year of terrible things happening, but rather, the convergence of the buildup of several previously existing trends.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
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Postby Glorious Hong Kong » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:21 am

Not good. Poland has veered too far to the right in recent years with its LGBT-free zones and its souring relationship with Israel. Eastern Europe on a whole seems to be becoming less and less Western by the day. Concerns have also been raised that Poland is trying to become a Singapore-style illiberal democracy. I fully support the demonstrations.
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Postby New yugoslavaia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:35 am

Just a friendly reminder that the ruling party is literally called PIS.
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:51 am

Deacarsia wrote:
Chuka-Koku wrote:This is not a ruling against pregnant women. This is a ruling against poor pregnant women, like all anti-abortion rulings are.

This is not a ruling against anyone. This is a ruling for the rights of the unborn, like all pro-life rulings are.

The abortion laws in Poland don't do what you seem to think that they do. It's estimated that hundreds of thousands of Polish women travel abroad for an abortion every year. Some of the only women it stops from having an abortion are those who can't travel due to being on a lower income or being in an abusive relationship. I'd imagine that there is a very buoyant Polish grey market of abortion pills and other abortifacients as well for those who can't or won't travel. But it is also unfortunately very likely that dangerous back alley clotheshanger clinics also still exist in large numbers in Poland, in instances where women have no other choice.
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Postby Albrenia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:54 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Deacarsia wrote:
This is not a ruling against anyone. This is a ruling for the rights of the unborn, like all pro-life rulings are.

The abortion laws in Poland don't do what you seem to think that they do. It's estimated that hundreds of thousands of Polish women travel abroad for an abortion every year. Some of the only women it stops from having an abortion are those who can't travel due to being on a lower income or being in an abusive relationship. I'd imagine that there is a very buoyant Polish grey market of abortion pills and other abortifacients as well for those who can't or won't travel. But it is also unfortunately very likely that dangerous back alley clotheshanger clinics also still exist in large numbers in Poland, in instances where women have no other choice.


Abortion, much like premarital sex, is near impossible to stamp out. It's a little strange really that the pro-life crowd think that banning it will stop people from doing it.

For a realistic chance of stopping abortions you'd need to back it up with a bunch of sex education, parental support programs and a lot more. But that's all un-Christian, apparently.
Last edited by Albrenia on Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby New yugoslavaia » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:07 am

Albrenia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:The abortion laws in Poland don't do what you seem to think that they do. It's estimated that hundreds of thousands of Polish women travel abroad for an abortion every year. Some of the only women it stops from having an abortion are those who can't travel due to being on a lower income or being in an abusive relationship. I'd imagine that there is a very buoyant Polish grey market of abortion pills and other abortifacients as well for those who can't or won't travel. But it is also unfortunately very likely that dangerous back alley clotheshanger clinics also still exist in large numbers in Poland, in instances where women have no other choice.


Abortion, much like premarital sex, is near impossible to stamp out. It's a little strange really that the pro-life crowd think that banning it will stop people from doing it.

For a realistic chance of stopping abortions you'd need to back it up with a bunch of sex education, parental support programs and a lot more. But that's all un-Christian, apparently.


Good old Christianity.
Making people suffer unnecessarily because God said so.
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
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Postby Thepeopl » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:12 am

Deacarsia wrote:This is an excellent ruling, and a “women’s strike” would just demonstrate the wisdom of traditional gender roles, as it actually would have a net positive effect.

Yes, completely agree.
When women don't cook, clean and organize the household, men will swiftly succumb to the wishes of the women. Those poor men who suddenly have to take care of the children, cooking, cleaning AND working their normal day job, will not tolerate a womans strike very long. More traditional gender roles!! It means more power for women.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Ic ... ADdagurinn).
Last edited by Thepeopl on Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:14 am

Good on those women for striking
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Postby New haven america » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:18 am

Deacarsia wrote:This is an excellent ruling, and a “women’s strike” would just demonstrate the wisdom of traditional gender roles, as it actually would have a net positive effect.

What's wise about gender roles?
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:28 am

New haven america wrote:
Deacarsia wrote:This is an excellent ruling, and a “women’s strike” would just demonstrate the wisdom of traditional gender roles, as it actually would have a net positive effect.

What's wise about gender roles?


Based on the rest of their posts it probably means proving that society can function fine without women working so they need to go back to the kitchen.
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