NATION

PASSWORD

What if the USA invades Canada?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What would happen?

The international community would take enough actions (please specify which actions) to force the USA to relinquish Canada. International laws and norms do work.
28
35%
There’s nothing the international community would/could do. The USA would succeed in taking and keeping Canada. International laws and norms don’t work.
51
65%
 
Total votes : 79

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

What if the USA invades Canada?

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:07 pm

Let’s say in 2021, the USA tries to invade and annex the entirety of Canada.

Since the USA’s military is a gigantic force and all of Canada’s cities are right on the border, I think it’s safe to assume that the USA would pull it off. And since Canada is a developed country where citizens are used to and depend on comfort, I don’t see the population mounting a long term guerrilla war or insurgency on the scale of Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland. It’s not culturally a Canadian thing to do. There could be a degree of sustained civil and passive resistance, but no effective armed insurgency on a sustained level.

If you disagree with the above, you may debate it.

However, I’d like to mostly focus on the international response.

A thinly veiled war of aggression would draw condemnation but since the USA is the worlds most economically and militarily powerful country... would the international community do anything or just stick to rhetoric? What concrete actions would they take (if any)?

^

In light of the above, can the USA hold on to Canada or would it be forced to give it up so the international community stops its actions against America?

Or would the doctrine of might makes right prevail? Meaning that effectively, international laws and norms would be a travesty in such an eventuality and there would be NOTHING preventing the USA from just feasibly holding on to Canada?

What’s your take?

Let’s say, for the purposes of the scenario, the American voters support the invasion and annexation unless/until the consequences imposed by the international community become too problematic.

My understanding is that since international law and norms are mostly created to benefit western imperial powers, it would not be effective in this case. The international community would use rhetoric, but since their opponent is the USA there’s not much they could do. In effect, America would get what it wants short of war and no one would go there.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15611
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:11 pm

The US would probably lose a lot of the support it currently enjoys from other western powers. China and Russia would probably make a lot of noise, but use the time to do whatever they are normally too worried about US intervention to do since the US would be busy elsewhere and lack international backing.

User avatar
Czechostan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1117
Founded: Apr 23, 2013
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Czechostan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:14 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:Let’s say in 2021, the USA tries to invade and annex the entirety of Canada.

Since the USA’s military is a gigantic force and all of Canada’s cities are right on the border, I think it’s safe to assume that the USA would pull it off. And since Canada is a developed country where citizens are used to and depend on comfort, I don’t see the population mounting a long term guerrilla war or insurgency on the scale of Iraq, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Northern Ireland. It’s not culturally a Canadian thing to do. There could be a degree of sustained civil and passive resistance, but no effective armed insurgency on a sustained level.

If you disagree with the above, you may debate it.

However, I’d like to mostly focus on the international response.

A thinly veiled war of aggression would draw condemnation but since the USA is the worlds most economically and militarily powerful country... would the international community do anything or just stick to rhetoric? What concrete actions would they take (if any)?

^

In light of the above, can the USA hold on to Canada or would it be forced to give it up so the international community stops its actions against America?

Or would the doctrine of might makes right prevail? Meaning that effectively, international laws and norms would be a travesty in such an eventuality and there would be NOTHING preventing the USA from just feasibly holding on to Canada?

What’s your take?

Let’s say, for the purposes of the scenario, the American voters support the invasion and annexation unless/until the consequences imposed by the international community become too problematic.

My understanding is that since international law and norms are mostly created to benefit western imperial powers, it would not be effective in this case. The international community would use rhetoric, but since their opponent is the USA there’s not much they could do. In effect, America would get what it wants short of war and no one would go there.

For the US to invade Canada (two of the closest countries in world history) now, international laws and norms would already have to be a travesty. I really don't think there's anything anyone could do to stop the US at that point.

User avatar
Rusozak
Minister
 
Posts: 3224
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rusozak » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:16 pm

America will be sorry, eh.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

User avatar
SomethingIsWrongHere
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: May 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby SomethingIsWrongHere » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:17 pm

I beleive America would get denounced by the international Community. I mean... it happened with Japan. Since Canada in this storyline did nothing wrong and America is invading on the potential terms of just geeting bigger... A whole lot of nations would (through the UN or sheer military power) get the USA to do a 180, at the very likely stake of losing their Identification as a Nation, and/or a LOT of money.

Yes Hello!
We have created a new Mini-Region!
The Nation of Domination!
We have a discord, and elections will take place when we get 10 WA nations.

Status: Yes.

-none currently-

Long Live Layem.
Join my Discord for more NationStates stuff. Link:DISCORD STILL IN PROGRESS

User avatar
Cordel One
Minister
 
Posts: 2523
Founded: Aug 06, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Cordel One » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:17 pm

Internally we'd start hearing strong anti-Canadian rhetoric and Americans will start being horrible to Canadians
Wear a mask and demolish symbols of white supremacy
Pro: leftism, neozapatism. communism, anarchism, Marxism, antifascism, choice, the environment, LGBTQ rights, minority rights, direct democracy, universal healthcare, open borders, labor unions, debating, my comrades

Anti: rightism, fascism, capitalism, liberalism, racism, sexism, xenophobia, bourgeoisie, the police, military industrial complex, imperialism, USA, PRC, overused anti-communist talking points
Please join my region the DankLeft Commune!

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15611
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:20 pm

The US has shown itself to being epicly inept at conquering other nations though in recent times. So although they'd obviously have little difficulty taking control of Canada, I'm not entirely sure they'd be competent enough to hold it even without the Iraq-type resistance against them.

User avatar
Dominioan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1013
Founded: Dec 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:23 pm

China just got their excuse to destroy America
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

User avatar
Deacarsia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1076
Founded: May 12, 2019
Right-wing Utopia

What if the United States of America invade Canada?

Postby Deacarsia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:26 pm

If the United States of America were to invade Canada, then quite simply Canada would be invaded.

The United States are insanely powerful militarily in comparison to pretty much all of the other countries of the world combined.
Sic enim Deus dilexit mundum, ut Filium suum unigenitum daret: ut omnis qui credit in eum, non pereat, sed habeat vitam æternam.

User avatar
Dominioan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1013
Founded: Dec 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:30 pm

Deacarsia wrote:If the United States of America were to invade Canada, then quite simply Canada would be invaded.

The United States are insanely powerful militarily in comparison to pretty much all of the other countries of the world combined.

China and Russia could definitely do some damage, and this is a valid reason.
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

User avatar
Chuka-Koku
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Oct 28, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Chuka-Koku » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:33 pm

Russia: We condemn America for their hypocrisy towards our Crimea situation
China: We condemn America for their imperialism
EU: We condemn America for their disrespect towards sovereign states

But they won't do anything.
Who am I? Well, who are you?
Hint: I'm not KG or AD




Or am I?
Free virtual latte if you can guess who I am.



Please put effort in your responses beyond "anime, lol!"
中 華 國 萬 歳
民族ー民權ー民生
What if China was a progressive social democracy where people only elect good looking waifus for politicians?
Oh, don't forget: Mao is a SocDem, Chiang is a Communist, and Sun Yat-sen is a waifu

KMT advisor accuses Chiang of breast, face enhancing surgery, Chiang denies claims: "Completely untrue slander", gives speech on how her beauty is 100% natural

User avatar
Stellar Colonies
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1765
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:34 pm

Just like when other countries take care not to push too close to triggering major wars over incidents such as Russia annexing Crimea or the PRC attempting to help itself to the South China Sea, they wouldn't try to risk a war with a US belligerent enough to invade Canada of all places (although this hypothetical is on a much larger scale).

However, there would certainly be a heavy and quite justified flurry of condemnations and token actions of disapproval (although it would likely and unfortunately not amount to much).
Last edited by Stellar Colonies on Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Day 257 since local 'stay-at-home order' was announced

Native of The East Pacific and Northern California


Stellar Colonies / the Confederation of Human Systems is a confederation which loosely unites a third of the Milky Way galaxy.

The WA embassy within the Confederacy is at Ida Station (243 Ida in the Sol System), a Confederate member state which joined the WA to represent Confederate interests.

An Incomplete List of Ida's Interpretations of WA Resolutions

Add 3000 years for the date I use.

If you want a mental image of me: Straight, white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.

User avatar
Dominioan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1013
Founded: Dec 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:34 pm

Chuka-Koku wrote:Russia: We condemn America for their hypocrisy towards our Crimea situation
China: We condemn America for their imperialism
EU: We condemn America for their disrespect towards sovereign states

But they won't do anything.

China is smart. The US will waste resources on Canada, and they will put up a fight. Although they will lose, the US will have a war torn area to rebuild and an angry Canadian population.
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

User avatar
Heloin
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16307
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:36 pm

Maybe you'll think of me when you are all alone
Maybe the one who is waiting for you will prove untrue
Then what will you do?

Image
Merry Christmas, Kisimusi Yakanaka

I'm a broken rabbit on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers.
Proudly Zimbabwean | Art Thread | Stand With Hong Kong | One Big Union | Stand With Artsakh | Nobel Prize Winner

User avatar
Devionsa
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 62
Founded: Jun 03, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Devionsa » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:37 pm

Dominioan wrote:
Deacarsia wrote:If the United States of America were to invade Canada, then quite simply Canada would be invaded.

The United States are insanely powerful militarily in comparison to pretty much all of the other countries of the world combined.

China and Russia could definitely do some damage, and this is a valid reason.

Agreed. Maybe that will also make countries like Japan, Germany and Korea to realise that relying on the USA's sense of justice for world stability is not that good of an idea.

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15611
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:38 pm

Heloin wrote:Maybe you'll think of me when you are all alone
Maybe the one who is waiting for you will prove untrue
Then what will you do?

(Image)


I see you are a person of taste.

User avatar
Dominioan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1013
Founded: Dec 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:38 pm

Devionsa wrote:
Dominioan wrote:China and Russia could definitely do some damage, and this is a valid reason.

Agreed. Maybe that will also make countries like Japan, Germany and Korea to realise that relying on the USA's sense of justice for world stability is not that good of an idea.

It will probably lead into a downward spiral ending up in some kind of conflict between China pretending its about Canada, and the newly imperialist USA.
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

User avatar
Ecorria
Secretary
 
Posts: 26
Founded: Nov 05, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ecorria » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:39 pm

What would motivate America to invade Canada?

User avatar
SomethingIsWrongHere
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: May 05, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby SomethingIsWrongHere » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:40 pm

Devionsa wrote:
Dominioan wrote:China and Russia could definitely do some damage, and this is a valid reason.

Agreed. Maybe that will also make countries like Japan, Germany and Korea to realise that relying on the USA's sense of justice for world stability is not that good of an idea.

This and... lots of others. Plus now North Korea has proof that America is evil... *sniffles* im canadian

Yes Hello!
We have created a new Mini-Region!
The Nation of Domination!
We have a discord, and elections will take place when we get 10 WA nations.

Status: Yes.

-none currently-

Long Live Layem.
Join my Discord for more NationStates stuff. Link:DISCORD STILL IN PROGRESS

User avatar
Dominioan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1013
Founded: Dec 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:42 pm

Ecorria wrote:What would motivate America to invade Canada?

This is a hypothetical, we assume they have a motivation.
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

User avatar
Albrenia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15611
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:42 pm

Ecorria wrote:What would motivate America to invade Canada?


Maybe someone found a massively rich source of oil or other narrativium in Canada.

User avatar
Stellar Colonies
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1765
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:43 pm

Ecorria wrote:What would motivate America to invade Canada?

Maple syrup, their cultural attitudes towards the US, outrage over seal clubbing, their vast oil supplies, their proximity to Russia via the Arctic Ocean, a random act of hostility, etc.
Day 257 since local 'stay-at-home order' was announced

Native of The East Pacific and Northern California


Stellar Colonies / the Confederation of Human Systems is a confederation which loosely unites a third of the Milky Way galaxy.

The WA embassy within the Confederacy is at Ida Station (243 Ida in the Sol System), a Confederate member state which joined the WA to represent Confederate interests.

An Incomplete List of Ida's Interpretations of WA Resolutions

Add 3000 years for the date I use.

If you want a mental image of me: Straight, white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.

User avatar
Great Imperium of Man
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 15
Founded: Apr 02, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Great Imperium of Man » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:43 pm

The United Nations wouldn't do anything, they'll just sit back and watch like their predecessor did, maybe even send in a platoon of peacekeeping troops to "protect" Canadian citizens in the conflict. If you're asking if Canada could win, as an American, I say it's highly unlikely in a conventional conflict, the Canadians would have to guerrilla tactics and other stuff to make occupation hard, we would eventually have to pull out like the Germans did in France (No, Vietnam is not an example, we weren't even officially part of that war.)

Frankly, now that I think about it, why do the United Nations exist if they do nothing? We should just abolish them as we did with the League of Nations, nothing would really change if we did.
"The Emperor Protects!"-Common Imperial saying

The Great Imperium of Man is a Warhammer 40k themed nation based on the human faction of the game. Though we're inspired by the Imperium of Man from the lore, I've taken certain liberties to make my nation unique from other 40k nations.

Please refer to our factbooks for NS-Stats, we don't use the official ones.

User avatar
Heloin
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16307
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:44 pm

Ecorria wrote:What would motivate America to invade Canada?

Chinese invasion of Alaska. Or maybe Canada looked at America funny.
Merry Christmas, Kisimusi Yakanaka

I'm a broken rabbit on a Halifax pier, the last of Barrett's Privateers.
Proudly Zimbabwean | Art Thread | Stand With Hong Kong | One Big Union | Stand With Artsakh | Nobel Prize Winner

User avatar
Chuka-Koku
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 54
Founded: Oct 28, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Chuka-Koku » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:44 pm

Ecorria wrote:What would motivate America to invade Canada?


Revenge for the terrible, terrible food known as poutine. Seriously, what's so great about it?
Who am I? Well, who are you?
Hint: I'm not KG or AD




Or am I?
Free virtual latte if you can guess who I am.



Please put effort in your responses beyond "anime, lol!"
中 華 國 萬 歳
民族ー民權ー民生
What if China was a progressive social democracy where people only elect good looking waifus for politicians?
Oh, don't forget: Mao is a SocDem, Chiang is a Communist, and Sun Yat-sen is a waifu

KMT advisor accuses Chiang of breast, face enhancing surgery, Chiang denies claims: "Completely untrue slander", gives speech on how her beauty is 100% natural

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Caleonia, Ceystile, Enormous Gentiles, Iacobland, Nakena, Neanderthaland, Nekostan-e Gharbi, Omniabstracta, Salus Maior, Senkaku, The Industrial States of Columbia, The State of Monavia, Too gae, UniversalCommons, Willtime, Xmara

Advertisement

Remove ads