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Salvation for a price: A hypothetical

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Democratic Socialists

Salvation for a price: A hypothetical

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:30 pm

Salvation. The common goal that ties many religions together across the world. Throughout history man has sought to achieve the ideal afterlife and in dualistic religions this often was under the threat of being condemned to a not so fun afterlife if one failed to obey the rules of his religion. When you give people the choice of eternal suffering vs eternal joy and pleasure, the latter usually wins out. But what would you do for a place in heaven?

Let's imagine that God appears before you one day and he tells you "I will save your soul if you put your faith in me, but there is a condition to that." Intrigued, you listen in. "Right now, you are facing eternity in hell. Not kinda hot but bearable hell. Not dark and disappointing hell. You are literally going to face the most painful eternal damnation imaginable. You will be tortured in the most excruciating ways forever after you die, but if you do as I say, you will be rewarded with paradise." "What do I gotta do?" You respond. "I want you to prove your loyalty to me," God tells you. He hands you a photo. "This man is named John Allister. He lives at 5497 Parkway Avenue, only a few blocks away. John is a good man, and he has a family of 5. I want you to kill him. You can do it any way you see fit but he must be killed before midnight in three days time and you have to do it in front of at least one of his family members. If you kill John, I will give you a place in my kingdom." Horrified, you ask God "but why?" "I don't need to tell you why," God says. "If it makes you feel better, John will also be rewarded with paradise. He won't be damned." You're caught at a crossroad now. Do you murder an innocent man to save your soul, or do you accept eternal torment so John can live out his life in peace? What would you do NSers?
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Antarcticanie
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Ex-Nation

Postby Antarcticanie » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:33 pm

As of right now, off the top of my head, I kill him. Haven't given it much thought, though. Might update as I consider it.

edited, as promised: The real God would never do this. So, I choose the option that does not involve the death of one of God's children. If that happens to be hell, so be it. I will be tormented eternally with a clear conscience.
Last edited by Antarcticanie on Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Antarcticanie, a small society based in coastal Antarctica. Anarcho-primivist on the individual level, with the state taking what is necessary for the continual function of society. Run by a bunch of college dropouts with undergraduate degrees in Gender Theory and Economics.

OOC INFO:
Pro: Trump, pacificism (kind of), Ukraine, America, police (I'm not a bootlicker I swear), John Doyle, capitalism
Anti: Biden, forever wars, liberalism/marxism, libertarianism, BLM, globalism, cringe Vaush and Destiny (not gamer)
Note: Antarcticanie does not represent my political views. I just thought it would be funny if Antarctica was anprim, then got really into it.
PolComp: Left/Right 4.38 Auth/Lib 2.56

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Vu Den Voc
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:33 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Salvation. The common goal that ties many religions together across the world. Throughout history man has sought to achieve the ideal afterlife and in dualistic religions this often was under the threat of being condemned to a not so fun afterlife if one failed to obey the rules of his religion. When you give people the choice of eternal suffering vs eternal joy and pleasure, the latter usually wins out. But what would you do for a place in heaven?

Let's imagine that God appears before you one day and he tells you "I will save your soul if you put your faith in me, but there is a condition to that." Intrigued, you listen in. "Right now, you are facing eternity in hell. Not kinda hot but bearable hell. Not dark and disappointing hell. You are literally going to face the most painful eternal damnation imaginable. You will be tortured in the most excruciating ways forever after you die, but if you do as I say, you will be rewarded with paradise." "What do I gotta do?" You respond. "I want you to prove your loyalty to me," God tells you. He hands you a photo. "This man is named John Allister. He lives at 5497 Parkway Avenue, only a few blocks away. John is a good man, and he has a family of 5. I want you to kill him. You can do it any way you see fit but he must be killed before midnight in three days time and you have to do it in front of at least one of his family members. If you kill John, I will give you a place in my kingdom." Horrified, you ask God "but why?" "I don't need to tell you why," God says. "If it makes you feel better, John will also be rewarded with paradise. He won't be damned." You're caught at a crossroad now. Do you murder an innocent man to save your soul, or do you accept eternal torment so John can live out his life in peace? What would you do NSers?


Kind of reminds of that one story of Arabham and his son. Although Arabham did not kill his son, i'm assuming that god would still make me kill the guy. I would because i'm loyal to god i guess
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:33 pm

Antarcticanie wrote:As of right now, off the top of my head, I kill him. Haven't given it much thought, though. Might update as I consider it.


Lmfao
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:34 pm

Vu Den Voc wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Salvation. The common goal that ties many religions together across the world. Throughout history man has sought to achieve the ideal afterlife and in dualistic religions this often was under the threat of being condemned to a not so fun afterlife if one failed to obey the rules of his religion. When you give people the choice of eternal suffering vs eternal joy and pleasure, the latter usually wins out. But what would you do for a place in heaven?

Let's imagine that God appears before you one day and he tells you "I will save your soul if you put your faith in me, but there is a condition to that." Intrigued, you listen in. "Right now, you are facing eternity in hell. Not kinda hot but bearable hell. Not dark and disappointing hell. You are literally going to face the most painful eternal damnation imaginable. You will be tortured in the most excruciating ways forever after you die, but if you do as I say, you will be rewarded with paradise." "What do I gotta do?" You respond. "I want you to prove your loyalty to me," God tells you. He hands you a photo. "This man is named John Allister. He lives at 5497 Parkway Avenue, only a few blocks away. John is a good man, and he has a family of 5. I want you to kill him. You can do it any way you see fit but he must be killed before midnight in three days time and you have to do it in front of at least one of his family members. If you kill John, I will give you a place in my kingdom." Horrified, you ask God "but why?" "I don't need to tell you why," God says. "If it makes you feel better, John will also be rewarded with paradise. He won't be damned." You're caught at a crossroad now. Do you murder an innocent man to save your soul, or do you accept eternal torment so John can live out his life in peace? What would you do NSers?


Kind of reminds of that one story of Arabham and his son. Although Arabham did not kill his son, i'm assuming that god would still make me kill the guy. I would because i'm loyal to god i guess


To be fair you can kill him any way you want. It doesn't need to be painful for him, it just has to result in him dropping dead in front of a family member.

Thats still kinda fucked but hey, John gets to go to heaven too so it isn't all bad, right?
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:35 pm

The thought of an afterlife or ‘salvation’ fills me, and always has, with dread. I wouldn’t do a thing to earn a place in heaven.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:36 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:The thought of an afterlife or ‘salvation’ fills me, and always has, with dread. I wouldn’t do a thing to earn a place in heaven.


But you would go to hell in this scenario.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:37 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:The thought of an afterlife or ‘salvation’ fills me, and always has, with dread. I wouldn’t do a thing to earn a place in heaven.


But you would go to hell in this scenario.


Then hell it is, I guess.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:38 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
But you would go to hell in this scenario.


Then hell it is, I guess.


That takes alot of moral resolve to choose
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:39 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Then hell it is, I guess.


That takes alot of moral resolve to choose


Think on it. Is it really salvation if you have to live forever with making such a horrid choice as say, killing someone for it?
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Dominioan
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:40 pm

I am assuming God won't lie. And if he gets to go to heaven, then I will do it.
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
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Oil

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:41 pm

Dominioan wrote:I am assuming God won't lie. And if he gets to go to heaven, then I will do it.


For anyone else considering whether God is being honest or not, in the scenario he is 100% telling the truth.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Dominioan
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Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:41 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Dominioan wrote:I am assuming God won't lie. And if he gets to go to heaven, then I will do it.


For anyone else considering whether God is being honest or not, in the scenario he is 100% telling the truth.

Then I think it is worth it.
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:43 pm

This is not a god worth believing in.
Hell it is.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:43 pm

Kowani wrote:This is not a god worth believing in.
Hell it is.


Keep in mind it is basically the lake of fire.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:45 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Kowani wrote:This is not a god worth believing in.
Hell it is.


Keep in mind it is basically the lake of fire.

Well, I don't believe this god to be trustworthy, the idea of heaven is horrifying to me, and this John guy hasn't done anything wrong.
Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

Kowani wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:Also, you could quit being a condescending dick.
I could. But am I going to? Nah.
ni dio, ni rey, ni patria, ni amo

A Republic...if you can keep it.

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:45 pm

How do I know it's god? It sounds like some kind of demon that is trying to coerce me into murdering someone it doesn't like.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Vu Den Voc
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:48 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
That takes alot of moral resolve to choose


Think on it. Is it really salvation if you have to live forever with making such a horrid choice as say, killing someone for it?



But imagine the worst most sufferable pain in the world, ok got that, times that by infinite, and imagine feeling that every moment
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Vu Den Voc
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Founded: Oct 22, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:48 pm

The New California Republic wrote:How do I know it's god? It sounds like some kind of demon that is trying to coerce me into murdering someone it doesn't like.



Look in the bible, god is known for testing people's faith
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La Paz de Los Ricos
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby La Paz de Los Ricos » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:49 pm

Any god that assumes I'm capable of murder is not omnipotent, therefore not all-knowing, therefore disappointing, therefore not worth my time. Plus, at least it'll be hot in Hell. I hate the cold.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:50 pm

Vu Den Voc wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Think on it. Is it really salvation if you have to live forever with making such a horrid choice as say, killing someone for it?



But imagine the worst most sufferable pain in the world, ok got that, times that by infinite, and imagine feeling that every moment


It still doesn’t erase the fact that to obtain this salvation I had to commit an atrocity. I don’t think I could live with that. Not for any prize.

Please note too that I’m talking about myself. Not about other people’s choices.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:50 pm

Vu Den Voc wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:How do I know it's god? It sounds like some kind of demon that is trying to coerce me into murdering someone it doesn't like.



Look in the bible, god is known for testing people's faith

No. I've read the Bible many times, I know that God hasn't tried to coerce someone into murdering a specific person in front of at least one family member by promising a free pass into Heaven as a test of faith.
Last edited by The New California Republic on Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Vu Den Voc
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Posts: 568
Founded: Oct 22, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:52 pm

La Paz de Los Ricos wrote:Any god that assumes I'm capable of murder is not omnipotent, therefore not all-knowing, therefore disappointing, therefore not worth my time. Plus, at least it'll be hot in Hell. I hate the cold.



i know your most likely joking (hopefully) but if your not, hell is not hot like lava (where it glows) no its complete darkness, with the feeling of being sweaty,hot, and being cold. NOT FUN.
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Vu Den Voc
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Founded: Oct 22, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:55 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Vu Den Voc wrote:

Look in the bible, god is known for testing people's faith

No. I've read the Bible many times, I know that God hasn't tried to coerce someone into murdering a specific person in front of at least one family member by promising a free pass into Heaven as a test of faith.



The great (and revealing) things about this is serval things

1. This is not real so i doubt god would ever do this (although maybe something alike but he would not make me actually kill someone)
'2. Its a interesting thought experiment on whether or not you deserve heaven by comitting murder
3. How important you consider a "good" afterlife is exposed in this experiment
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La Paz de Los Ricos
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Posts: 876
Founded: Oct 26, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby La Paz de Los Ricos » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:57 pm

Vu Den Voc wrote:
La Paz de Los Ricos wrote:Any god that assumes I'm capable of murder is not omnipotent, therefore not all-knowing, therefore disappointing, therefore not worth my time. Plus, at least it'll be hot in Hell. I hate the cold.



i know your most likely joking (hopefully) but if your not, hell is not hot like lava (where it glows) no its complete darkness, with the feeling of being sweaty,hot, and being cold. NOT FUN.


Hell assumes I have the attention span for eternity.

Besides, quote RFS:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Not kinda hot but bearable hell.


"Unbearable" probably meaning hot. The OP states that God basically confirms Hell to be the fire-and-brimstone place.

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