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Should we be removing statues and logos?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is it worth it to take down statues and logos?

Yes, of course it is.
37
34%
No, why would we do that?
71
66%
 
Total votes : 108

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Untecna
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Should we be removing statues and logos?

Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:46 am

Recently in the USA, people have been taking down statues and logos because they are "racist". The question is, is it worth it?

I disagree, because we are removing our history and trying to forget our past, but that's my opinion on it.
Last edited by Untecna on Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Vu Den Voc
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Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:48 am

i Think while we should remove it, we should at least put the logos and statues in a museum
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:48 am

Send them to a museum, or as an alternative, tear down the original statue and build a more accurate one.

I support using a wrecking ball on the statue of a slave owner and replacing it with a new plaque commemorating the people who were used and abused by him when he was alive. We will preserve his memory but in a far more accurate fashion. And if that offends the sensibilities of some, we can move the statue to a museum and then put up the plaque. But the original statue has to go.
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Vu Den Voc
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Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:50 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Send them to a museum, or as an alternative, tear down the original statue and build a more accurate one.

I support using a wrecking ball on the statue of a slave owner and replacing it with a new plaque commemorating the people who were used and abused by him when he was alive. We will preserve his memory but in a far more accurate fashion. And if that offends the sensibilities of some, we can move the statue to a museum and then put up the plaque. But the original statue has to go.



Exactly, its kinda like the berlin wall, we destroyed it but we still have pieces of it.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:51 am

Vu Den Voc wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Send them to a museum, or as an alternative, tear down the original statue and build a more accurate one.

I support using a wrecking ball on the statue of a slave owner and replacing it with a new plaque commemorating the people who were used and abused by him when he was alive. We will preserve his memory but in a far more accurate fashion. And if that offends the sensibilities of some, we can move the statue to a museum and then put up the plaque. But the original statue has to go.



Exactly, its kinda like the berlin wall, we destroyed it but we still have pieces of it.


I like that idea. We could bulldoze the statue but leave the pieces in the park, so people can still kinda view the guy.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Postby Eurasies » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:55 am

Let's tear down the statues of Columbus and Churchill because they were fucking straight white people

I don't care that Columbus discovered a whole continent and that Churchill finished off the Nazis!
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:56 am

I disagree, with the reasons above, none of those statues or logos were quote, "Racist", because they are there for people to remember those people. And as for the logos, none of them are in any way racist, not even the Redskins logo, it was made by a Native American to commemorate their chief, and they let the NFL use it, Aunt Jemima was proud of the product she made, and Land O Lakes butter showed a Native American woman, but not in a racist intent. Really, all this is is hoping that we can forget our past so we can have a "better future". But in order to have a better future, we need our past!
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:56 am

Eurasies wrote:Let's tear down the statues of Columbus and Churchill because they were fucking straight white people

I don't care that Columbus discovered a whole continent and that Churchill finished off the Nazis!


You know that's a very unnuanced view of why people want some statues gone, right?

The issue isn't just that statues exist. Its that said statues often glorify some pretty awful people. I would support a Columbus statue if said statues showed him enslaving natives, since that's the scumbag type of stuff he did.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:58 am

Vu Den Voc wrote:i Think while we should remove it, we should at least put the logos and statues in a museum

No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't shit and piss on our founders just because they had opinions that aren't woke.

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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:59 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Eurasies wrote:Let's tear down the statues of Columbus and Churchill because they were fucking straight white people

I don't care that Columbus discovered a whole continent and that Churchill finished off the Nazis!


You know that's a very unnuanced view of why people want some statues gone, right?

The issue isn't just that statues exist. Its that said statues often glorify some pretty awful people. I would support a Columbus statue if said statues showed him enslaving natives, since that's the scumbag type of stuff he did.

Yeah, but without him, there would not be the USA, or Canada, or Mexico, or frankly, any modern country in the Americas that we know today. Despite the fact that, yes, he did torture natives, without him, we wouldn't be here today.
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Postby Eurasies » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:59 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Eurasies wrote:Let's tear down the statues of Columbus and Churchill because they were fucking straight white people

I don't care that Columbus discovered a whole continent and that Churchill finished off the Nazis!


You know that's a very unnuanced view of why people want some statues gone, right?

The issue isn't just that statues exist. Its that said statues often glorify some pretty awful people. I would support a Columbus statue if said statues showed him enslaving natives, since that's the scumbag type of stuff he did.

Parcially agree ;)
Last edited by Eurasies on Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:59 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Vu Den Voc wrote:i Think while we should remove it, we should at least put the logos and statues in a museum

No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't shit and piss on our founders just because they had opinions that aren't woke.


So we can't even put it in a museum? The glorious statue without any context should remain standing
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy If you don't think tanks are always the answer, you're big dumb

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:01 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Vu Den Voc wrote:i Think while we should remove it, we should at least put the logos and statues in a museum

No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't shit and piss on our founders just because they had opinions that aren't woke.

I agree, just because they don't meet our societal standards doesn't mean they should be forgotten or looked down upon.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:02 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't shit and piss on our founders just because they had opinions that aren't woke.


So we can't even put it in a museum? The glorious statue without any context should remain standing

No, statues to people like George Washington should stay up. They founded this country whether you like it or not and our country is a representation of their ideas whether you like it or not. It's not like a Robert E. Lee statue that is there to simply make a racist statement.
Last edited by The Reformed American Republic on Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Auzkhia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:02 am

Statues and logos aren't how people learn from history especially since in the context they serve.

Putting them in a museum about racial history or the civil war for example, not on public display before the state capitol. Or better yet, there's no reason to have them at all, and often there were photographs of their dedication ceremonies because, which can be used as documentation of such virtue signals to white supremacy.

History is not something that should be worshiped or revered as the simpler better times, it's storytelling and we should see it as how one can be better.

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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:03 am

The Reformed American Republic wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
So we can't even put it in a museum? The glorious statue without any context should remain standing

No, statues to people like George Washington should stay up. They founded this country whether you like it or not and our country is a representation of their ideas whether you like it or not. It's not like a Robert E. Lee statue that is there to simply make a racist statement.

Exactly! Finally, someone that agrees with me!
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Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:05 am

Auzkhia wrote:Statues and logos aren't how people learn from history especially since in the context they serve.

Putting them in a museum about racial history or the civil war for example, not on public display before the state capitol. Or better yet, there's no reason to have them at all, and often there were photographs of their dedication ceremonies because, which can be used as documentation of such virtue signals to white supremacy.

History is not something that should be worshiped or revered as the simpler better times, it's storytelling and we should see it as how one can be better.

Why do people say white supremacy? Seriously? I thought we all were over that but apparently not. Just because a lot of Americans are white, doesn't mean we are supreme. In fact, blame the British for that!
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Postby Geneviev » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:05 am

We should remove statues of people we shouldn't admire. That would include anyone who committed treason against the United States by fighting for the Confederacy. That doesn't mean that we forget history, only that we don't glorify the wrong side of it.
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Postby Eurasies » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:06 am

Let's tear down the statues of Washington because it was bad and in its place we put statues of Marx who was a good person

Man please don't make a fool of yourself, a lot of people have been important to history, and it's wrong to glorify them, but it's also wrong to hate them just because they don't meet modern standards
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Echellia
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Postby Echellia » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:06 am

You can't erase or re-write history.
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Postby -Ocelot- » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:06 am

Untecna wrote:I disagree, because we are removing our history and trying to forget our past, but that's my opinion on it.


Almost as if the ideology these guys promote is based on erasing the nation's history and national identity to establish itself.

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Postby Ifreann » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:07 am

Imagine thinking that a business changing its branding is removing history and forgetting the past.
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:08 am

Eurasies wrote:Let's tear down the statues of Washington because it was bad and in its place we put statues of Marx who was a good person

Man please don't make a fool of yourself, a lot of people have been important to history, and it's wrong to glorify them, but it's also wrong to hate them just because they don't meet modern standards

Really. Marx? That is the single handidly most stupid thing, I have heard all day.
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Postby Vu Den Voc » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:08 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The Reformed American Republic wrote:No, we shouldn't. We shouldn't shit and piss on our founders just because they had opinions that aren't woke.


So we can't even put it in a museum? The glorious statue without any context should remain standing


We should put a non bias statement saying both good and bad things the person did if we are at all to keep these statues standing.
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:09 am

What have I started...
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