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[DEFEATED] Commend Ariusgrad

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The Marconian State
Secretary
 
Posts: 35
Founded: Sep 01, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby The Marconian State » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:56 pm

I don't care too much about WA campaign telegrams, and the resolution is clearly well-written. However, with no disrespect to the region or its WAD/President, it just doesn't feel like it's enough to be commended on. Maybe my standards for a commendation are higher than others, but in my view, commendations of a nation should be for something accomplished beyond the scope of a single region, not necessarily site-wide, but enough that their accomplishments are impressive in their own right. Most of the accomplishments listed in the resolution clearly focus on Ariusgrad's accomplishments within their own region, and that might be enough if the region itself was more accomplished or influential (under the nation's leadership), but a moderate success (honestly, even a more-than-moderate success) of regional growth and good relations with a large number of other regions isn't enough to cut it, in my view.

I received a telegram from the co-author of the resolution, Lanaograd, attempting to sway my vote by explaining that the Philippines's defense strategy against an attempted raid by 70 invader nations was, in their words, "highlighted as a turning point in defender-invader dynamics," and that Ariusgrad campaigned for "a shared world throughout the NS realm." I have no intentions of disputing these claims, because I don't even know if they're true or not, but what I do know is that these are a) not included in the proposal at vote, and b) not elaborated upon in any fashion. Lanaograd, if you're reading this, I strongly recommend you write these merits and achievements in, explain how and why they matter, and find some other things to put in as well, because points like these show that Ariusgrad is, in fact, influential beyond their own region, and the region itself also has influence and accomplishments that extend beyond itself as a region.

I think if you could better show that Ariusgrad is worthy of a commendation via another draft of the proposal containing more of their accomplishments in more detail, you wouldn't just be swaying my vote, you might even be swaying the vote of people with even more WA endorsements than me.

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Brutica
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jan 22, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Brutica » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:14 am

Spode Humbled Minions wrote:While I find it ironic that Timhampton of all people is complaining about WA telegrams, I must echo my shared distaste for using them to promote resolutions


What I find even more distasteful is the co-author writing direct telegrams to people who voted against this, and who have WA telegram campaigns disabled. There's a reason for that setting, and ignoring it by writing direct telegrams is a bad-faith move. Even if there was enough here to warrant a commendation, there's not a chance I'd vote in favour after a move like that.

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Praeceps
Diplomat
 
Posts: 757
Founded: Feb 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Praeceps » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:00 pm

Brutica wrote:
Spode Humbled Minions wrote:While I find it ironic that Timhampton of all people is complaining about WA telegrams, I must echo my shared distaste for using them to promote resolutions


What I find even more distasteful is the co-author writing direct telegrams to people who voted against this, and who have WA telegram campaigns disabled. There's a reason for that setting, and ignoring it by writing direct telegrams is a bad-faith move. Even if there was enough here to warrant a commendation, there's not a chance I'd vote in favour after a move like that.

WA telegram campaigns should be marked as such. Telegrams marked inappropriately can be GHRed.

Direct telegrams are not that bad (when appropriately marked) in my opinion, they are more feasible for those on a limited budget (or without one). Being more against direct telegrams than mass telegrams is in essence, making the case that those spending money are not as bad as though who are trying to save money/don't have money... that's just wrong.
Apparently simultaneously a Ravenclaw puppet, a NPO plant, and a Warden spy. I had no idea I was that good. Depending on who you ask, my aliases include Krulltopia.

Former Minister of Foreign Affairs for The North Pacific, Former Guildmaster of The North Pacific Cards Guild

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Brutica
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jan 22, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Brutica » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:06 pm

Praeceps wrote:WA telegram campaigns should be marked as such. Telegrams marked inappropriately can be GHRed.

Direct telegrams are not that bad (when appropriately marked) in my opinion, they are more feasible for those on a limited budget (or without one). Being more against direct telegrams than mass telegrams is in essence, making the case that those spending money are not as bad as though who are trying to save money/don't have money... that's just wrong.


Save money by making your case in the actual proposal (or thread).

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Flemingisa
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 119
Founded: Nov 22, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Flemingisa » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:14 pm

Brutica wrote:
Praeceps wrote:WA telegram campaigns should be marked as such. Telegrams marked inappropriately can be GHRed.

Direct telegrams are not that bad (when appropriately marked) in my opinion, they are more feasible for those on a limited budget (or without one). Being more against direct telegrams than mass telegrams is in essence, making the case that those spending money are not as bad as though who are trying to save money/don't have money... that's just wrong.


Save money by making your case in the actual proposal (or thread).



Let’s be honest here. How many delegates actually read the thread here. Heck I only came because I was curious to see the arguing. Anyway I don’t see an issue with any of the telegrams sent. It’s part of being a delegate

Edit: That being said I am voting against it due to my region voting against. I personally think they are worthy of the Commend
Last edited by Flemingisa on Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Refuge Isle
Technical Moderator
 
Posts: 1871
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:30 pm

Flemingisa wrote:
Brutica wrote:
Save money by making your case in the actual proposal (or thread).



Let’s be honest here. How many delegates actually read the thread here. Heck I only came because I was curious to see the arguing. Anyway I don’t see an issue with any of the telegrams sent. It’s part of being a delegate

Edit: That being said I am voting against it due to my region voting against. I personally think they are worthy of the Commend

IMO, mostly the case against campaign telegrams is that delegate votes are often determined by their internal regional structure. Writing individual telegrams to delegates for a personal appeal mostly just demonstrates, to me, a personal ignorance of how their region works. You can have a couple different citizenships in places and voice your opinion as a citizen of that region, but ultimately delegates are going to vote how they want to or how their laws or WA department wants to - not because they're told what to do in a telegram.

Approval campaigns are great, because you're bringing attention to something a delegate didn't know about and they don't have to like the thing you're selling. It just needs to look credible enough to hit the floor. But in my experience, campaigns to change people's vote will get a couple switches instantly, and then a massive number more voting against it out of spite.

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Praeceps
Diplomat
 
Posts: 757
Founded: Feb 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Praeceps » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:33 pm

Brutica wrote:
Praeceps wrote:WA telegram campaigns should be marked as such. Telegrams marked inappropriately can be GHRed.

Direct telegrams are not that bad (when appropriately marked) in my opinion, they are more feasible for those on a limited budget (or without one). Being more against direct telegrams than mass telegrams is in essence, making the case that those spending money are not as bad as though who are trying to save money/don't have money... that's just wrong.


Save money by making your case in the actual proposal (or thread).

Then make that argument equally for targeted and mass campaigns and don't try to single out those who aren't using/affording mass campaigns.
Apparently simultaneously a Ravenclaw puppet, a NPO plant, and a Warden spy. I had no idea I was that good. Depending on who you ask, my aliases include Krulltopia.

Former Minister of Foreign Affairs for The North Pacific, Former Guildmaster of The North Pacific Cards Guild

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13700
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:02 am

"Commend Ariusgrad" was defeated 9,856 votes to 4,576.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
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