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For The Heaviest Parliament(A Romanian Election Thread)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who do you support?

PNL
4
24%
PSD
4
24%
USR-PLUS
4
24%
PRO Romania
2
12%
UDMR
0
No votes
PMP
1
6%
Other
2
12%
 
Total votes : 17

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Shrillland
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For The Heaviest Parliament(A Romanian Election Thread)

Postby Shrillland » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:59 pm

We now head back to Europe for another vote(I probably should've done Croatia and Lithuania, but there you go), this time to Romania on Sunday, December 6. The last four years have been pretty chaotic in this Balkan land since the 2016 election. This is going to get pretty long, but the context is important.

When the Social Democrats formed the government with the centre-right ALDE after that vote, they almost immediately went into trouble after they decided to being up legislation that would weaken penalties for corruption and abuse of power and pardon some people who were convicted of those laws despite vowing they wouldn't do so. After two months of protests and the courts giving less-than-stellar opinions about the laws, they were pulled, but the damage was done. The PM at the time, Sorin Grindeanu, lost trust with the PSD's leader Liviu Dragnea(who couldn't become PM himself because the President didn't want him or his initial choice for the office), and Dragnea had the PSD launch a no-confidence vote ousting Grindenau less than six months after the election.

Mihai Tudose became PM...and then was forced out after six months himself due to partisan infighting and comments he made about the ethnically Hungarian Szekelys in Szekely Land, a region that desires autonomy within Romania. So PSD now selected Viorica Dăncilă, the first women PM, who formed a government with a C&S agreement from the UDMR, the Hungarian interest party. This was at the end of January 2018. Around the same time, a bunch of PSD Deputies and Senators broke off to form their own party led by former PM Victor Ponta, which just recently(in the last few weeks) merged with ALDE to become the centrist PRO Romania Social Liberal.

For the next year, PSD kept slipping in the polls in favour of the more conservative National Liberals(PNL). The PSD then supported a failed constitutional plebiscite to ban same-sex marriage(failed because the minimum turnout threshold of 30% wasn't met), and then Dragnea was thrown in jail for forgery and abuse of office(done during is time as Teleorman County Council President after hiring two people for fake jobs and putting them on government payroll) for over three years in May of 2019, the day after Romania voted in the EU elections. PNL won those elections, and Dăncilă's increasingly perceived incompetence led to Parliament ousting her last October in favour of a PNL government led by Ludovic Orban. They've been in charge since and relatively stable. They won council elections earlier this year and are hoping to get the lead in Parliament outright. So far, the polls have them close to on outright majority in the Chamber and a lead in the Senate.

Here's how the election will go. The Chamber has 329 seats, 308 are chosen by PR with a 5% national threshold or a 20% threshold in four constituencies(the constituencies consist of the 41 counties and Bucharest). 4 are PR seats for Romanians abroad, and the other 17 are reserved for ethnic minorities that pass a lower threshold(just 10% of what would be needed for a normal seat). The Senate has 136 members chosen by open-list PR with a similar threshold in 43 constituencies for the counties, Bucharest, and Romanians abroad. A party or coalition needs a majority in both houses to form a government

Here are the parties that will likely enter:

National Liberal Party(PNL) led by Current PM Ludovic Orban: Centre to Centre-right, Liberal Conservative, Pro-EU

Social Democratic Party(PSD) led by Marcel Ciolacu: Catch-all, Social Conservative, Social Democratic, Economic Liberal, Left Nationalist, Left Populist, Soft Eurosceptic

USR-Plus Alliance of Save Romania Union(USR) led by Dan Barna and The Liberty, Unity, and Solidarity PArty(PLUS) led by Dacian Ciolos: Centre to Centre-right, Social Liberal, Pro-EU, Liberal, Progressive, Anti-Corruption

PRO Romania Social Liberal led by Victor Ponta: Centre to Centre-left, Progressive, Social Liberal, Pro-EU

Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania(UDMR or RMDSZ) led by Hunor Kelemen: Centre to Centre-right, Pro-EU, Ethnic Hungarian Interests, Christian Democratic, Liberal Conservative

People's Movement Party(PMP) led by Eugen Tomac: Centre-right, Greater Romanian, Eurofederalist, Social Conservative, Economic Liberal, Christian Democratic

So, what say you, NSG? What's your support going to? For me, it's PRO Romania. Romania could do with Social Democracy without the PSD's corruption.
Last edited by Shrillland on Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Anatoliyanskiy
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Postby Anatoliyanskiy » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:08 pm

Though I am not very well versed in Romanian politics, I think it's pretty safe to say that the Social Democratic Party botched their chance at getting elected and will definitely lose seats. Plus, they are somehow an even more moderate socdem party then others, and I don't like their economic liberalism. So oddly enough, I'm supporting PRO Romania in getting elected, as they are somehow more left-wing then the PSD. They have little chance of getting elected, but I support them nonetheless.

Edit: First post! yay?
Last edited by Anatoliyanskiy on Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Punished UMN » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:37 pm

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Postby Major-Tom » Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:40 pm

The PSD functions like a mafia, not a political party. For that reason alone, I'd go with the USR. The leader of PRO was a formerly terribly corrupt Romanian leader, it is not what it seems.
Last edited by Major-Tom on Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:17 pm

Major-Tom wrote:The PSD functions like a mafia, not a political party. For that reason alone, I'd go with the USR. The leader of PRO was a formerly terribly corrupt Romanian leader, it is not what it seems.


After reading more, you've convinced me. The Alliance it is.
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Postby Rio Cana » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:00 pm

Now I know why there is corruption and problems in Romania. Some of those parties have had problems in the past. Also, many of the political parties seem to have the same ideologies. And a few are Pro-Europe/Pro-Europe Federalism. Seems they should get off that EU pipe dream since joining the EU. will not fix all there problems. Unlike Poland, Romania seems not to have fully recovered from WW II. Before WW II they were a nation with problems but on the move. In modern times, those political parties which are in power seem to be there problem. Maybe they should install a republican form of government. In the meantime, they should give new political parties a try.
Last edited by Rio Cana on Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:06 pm

Rio Cana wrote:Now I know why there is corruption and problems in Romania. Some of those parties have had problems in the past. Also, many of the political parties seem to have the same ideologies. And a few are Pro-Europe/Pro-Europe Federalism. Seems they should get off that EU pipe dream since joining the EU. will not fix all there problems. Unlike Poland, Romania seems not to have fully recovered from WW II. Before WW II they were a nation with problems but on the move. In modern times, those political parties which are in power seem to be there problem. Maybe they should install a republican form of government. In the meantime, they should give new political parties a try.


They've been part of the EU for 13 years, actually. As for having the same ideologies, well, when you've had to deal with Communism, left solutions are somewhat less than palatable. USR and PMP are newer parties, and PMP's the first ones to really get on the Greater Romania band waggon since the 90s, basically appealing to the Romanian attitude of Moldova being an artificial rump state that serves no useful purpose.
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Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:14 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Rio Cana wrote:Now I know why there is corruption and problems in Romania. Some of those parties have had problems in the past. Also, many of the political parties seem to have the same ideologies. And a few are Pro-Europe/Pro-Europe Federalism. Seems they should get off that EU pipe dream since joining the EU. will not fix all there problems. Unlike Poland, Romania seems not to have fully recovered from WW II. Before WW II they were a nation with problems but on the move. In modern times, those political parties which are in power seem to be there problem. Maybe they should install a republican form of government. In the meantime, they should give new political parties a try.


They've been part of the EU for 13 years, actually. As for having the same ideologies, well, when you've had to deal with Communism, left solutions are somewhat less than palatable. USR and PMP are newer parties, and PMP's the first ones to really get on the Greater Romania band waggon since the 90s, basically appealing to the Romanian attitude of Moldova being an artificial rump state that serves no useful purpose.

What would they even do? Invade Moldova?
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:15 pm

Kowani wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
They've been part of the EU for 13 years, actually. As for having the same ideologies, well, when you've had to deal with Communism, left solutions are somewhat less than palatable. USR and PMP are newer parties, and PMP's the first ones to really get on the Greater Romania band waggon since the 90s, basically appealing to the Romanian attitude of Moldova being an artificial rump state that serves no useful purpose.

What would they even do? Invade Moldova?


Not quite, just ask for a reunification vote again like the one in '94.
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Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:36 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Kowani wrote:What would they even do? Invade Moldova?


Not quite, just ask for a reunification vote again like the one in '94.

Ahhhh.
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Anatoliyanskiy
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Postby Anatoliyanskiy » Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:18 am

well, seems like I'm supporting USR-PLUS now. I mean, they're barely centre-right and it's not like they're gonna blitz the country with austerity. (*cough cough* National Liberal Party *cough cough*)
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:21 pm

Well, the campaign officially began this past Friday morning, no news to really report though: http://stiri.tvr.ro/a-inceput-campania-electorala--in-condi--ii-de-pandemie_873098.html#view
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Postby Liburia » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:38 am

I would vote for Volt Romania.
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:45 pm

In the meantime, several key leaders from PSD, PNL, USR, and PM are all going to resign the day before their term ends so they don't serve a full term and thus receive their parliamentary pensions for life since many of them came in after the last election: http://stiri.tvr.ro/dispute-in-parlament--dupa-ce-parlamentari-usr---i-psd-au-anun--at-ca-demisioneaza-ca-sa-nu-beneficieze-de-pensii-speciale_874314.html#view

And PM Ludovic Orban(no relation to the demagogue next door) has said that all areas currently under quarantine(and it's an actual quarantine) due to Covid will be allowed to vote without restrictions on the 6th: http://stiri.tvr.ro/orban-ceta-enii-din-localita-ile-carantinate-vor-putea-vota-in-6-decembrie-nu-vor-fi-restric-ii_874192.html#view
Last edited by Shrillland on Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Free China » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:02 pm

I think I'll go for... *checks note* 2020 USR-PLUS Alliance... as it seems appealing.
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Postby Shrillland » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:19 pm

We're now only a week away, and my projection is that PNL will lead with 105 seats in the Chamber, the coalition will be PNL-USR-PLUS-PMP with about 175-178 seats altogether.
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Postby Nakena » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:24 pm

Anything that brings down PSD/Ponta.

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Postby Outer Sparta » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:26 pm

What's with social democratic parties being very corrupt in Eastern Europe? Smer in Slovakia suffered with that and now the PSD in Romania. It's noteworthy that they're both left-wing populist and nationalist based on ideology.
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Postby Shrillland » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:29 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:What's with social democratic parties being very corrupt in Eastern Europe? Smer in Slovakia suffered with that and now the PSD in Romania. It's noteworthy that they're both left-wing populist and nationalist based on ideology.


It's mostly because a lot of them are reformed remnants of the old Communist parties trying to maintain relevance in the modern era.
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Postby Nakena » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:31 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:What's with social democratic parties being very corrupt in Eastern Europe? Smer in Slovakia suffered with that and now the PSD in Romania. It's noteworthy that they're both left-wing populist and nationalist based on ideology.


I dont think ideology is relevant there really. Its just that Ponta and his PSD cabal are probably the closest thing in Europe to what QAnon fantasizes about. Those people are damn close to it as it gets. And they are real.
Last edited by Nakena on Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Outer Sparta » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:34 pm

Nakena wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:What's with social democratic parties being very corrupt in Eastern Europe? Smer in Slovakia suffered with that and now the PSD in Romania. It's noteworthy that they're both left-wing populist and nationalist based on ideology.


I dont think ideology is relevant there really. Its just that Ponta and his PSD cabal are probably the closest thing in Europe to what QAnon fantasizes to be in power. Those people are damn close to it as it gets.

Moldova's ruling party is an S&D/ID hybrid. Then again, Eastern Europe has lots of corruption regardless of what ideology the party is.
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:35 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:What's with social democratic parties being very corrupt in Eastern Europe? Smer in Slovakia suffered with that and now the PSD in Romania. It's noteworthy that they're both left-wing populist and nationalist based on ideology.


It's mostly because a lot of them are reformed remnants of the old Communist parties trying to maintain relevance in the modern era.

PiS and Fidesz, though viewed as right-wing populist parties, both are economically left-wing in their respective countries. Ironically, they railed against the old Communists while acting like them with how they govern.
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Postby Nakena » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:38 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
It's mostly because a lot of them are reformed remnants of the old Communist parties trying to maintain relevance in the modern era.

PiS and Fidesz, though viewed as right-wing populist parties, both are economically left-wing in their respective countries. Ironically, they railed against the old Communists while acting like them with how they govern.


PSD/Ponta is far worse. Just Romania is so obscure, so MSM doesnt cares about it. At least romanian Presdient Iohannis has been steadily fighting against them. And again I dont think ideology is relevant here.
Last edited by Nakena on Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Major-Tom » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:38 pm

Shrillland wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:What's with social democratic parties being very corrupt in Eastern Europe? Smer in Slovakia suffered with that and now the PSD in Romania. It's noteworthy that they're both left-wing populist and nationalist based on ideology.


It's mostly because a lot of them are reformed remnants of the old Communist parties trying to maintain relevance in the modern era.


Pretty much, a lot of the self-described social democratic parties there aren't really ideological in that sense, they're not exactly social democratic. Paternalistic, in favor of a welfare state, but also entrenched in corruption/patronage/nepotism etc etc.
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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:41 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
It's mostly because a lot of them are reformed remnants of the old Communist parties trying to maintain relevance in the modern era.

PiS and Fidesz, though viewed as right-wing populist parties, both are economically left-wing in their respective countries. Ironically, they railed against the old Communists while acting like them with how they govern.


Oh, absolutely. They're economically left wing because they see the need and the popularity in maintaining a healthy welfare state whilst at the same time lambasting western decadence and immorailty. The PSD is similar, but as Nakena pointed out, Romania doesn't get as much attention partially because they don't try to openly antagonise the rest of Europe like Poland and Hungary.
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