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Better President: Abe Lincoln or George Washington?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which was a better President?

George Washington
27
34%
Abraham Lincoln
52
66%
 
Total votes : 79

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Empirical Switzerland
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Better President: Abe Lincoln or George Washington?

Postby Empirical Switzerland » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:34 am

Ask anybody, or any American at least, who their favorite president is, and of course you will get many answers, but there are two that appear in at least nearly everybody's top 5, and in most people's #1.
George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

This is a big question, as many have argued over which was a better person, who had a better moral compass, who was the better at leading the country, who was more skilled? The list goes on.

I have made this thread simply to see what my fellow NSers think, and see their opinions. Debating is welcome below: so feel free to discuss why you think who you picked was better! And of course, neither of them have to be your favorite, but simply which one you like more.

I am torn about these two, as many people are. But I personally admire Abraham Lincoln a smidge more, as he held the country together in a time of extreme division, managed to abolish slavery, helped start the republican party, and go down in history as one of the best men there ever were.
At least in my mind, so feel free to tell me who you think and why.
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Empirical Switzerland
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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:59 am

I cannot wait to see all of your responses.
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:01 am

Washington had the ability to become a dictator, but refused it. That alone makes him better than 99% of people in history

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:02 am

I'll take Abe. The man wasn't perfect, but considering what he did, I'll take him.
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Postby Whitemore » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:02 am

No State Here wrote:Washington had the ability to become a dictator, but refused it. That alone makes him better than 99% of people in history


I agree, he could have easily run and won a third term but he decided not to.
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Postby No State Here » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:03 am

Whitemore wrote:
No State Here wrote:Washington had the ability to become a dictator, but refused it. That alone makes him better than 99% of people in history


I agree, he could have easily run and won a third term but he decided not to.

Forget a third term, people wanted to make him King, but he refused it. Of course, he had no noble descent so his title would’ve likely been Emperor, similar to Napoleon, but still

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:04 am

No State Here wrote:
Whitemore wrote:
I agree, he could have easily run and won a third term but he decided not to.

Forget a third term, people wanted to make him King, but he refused it. Of course, he had no noble descent so his title would’ve likely been Emperor, similar to Napoleon, but still

As good as that is, it's hard to top Abe.
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Postby Coradortodos » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:05 am

Well I vote for Abe. He kept our country united during hard times

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Whitemore
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Postby Whitemore » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:05 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
No State Here wrote:Forget a third term, people wanted to make him King, but he refused it. Of course, he had no noble descent so his title would’ve likely been Emperor, similar to Napoleon, but still

As good as that is, it's hard to top Abe.


It's easy to top President Linclon, the Man suspended habeas corpus.
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:07 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
No State Here wrote:Forget a third term, people wanted to make him King, but he refused it. Of course, he had no noble descent so his title would’ve likely been Emperor, similar to Napoleon, but still

As good as that is, it's hard to top Abe.

One could argue lincoln was a tyrant, although in my opinion such actions were necessary for ending slavery

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Postby Libertas Omnium Maximus » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:08 am

Whitemore wrote:
No State Here wrote:Washington had the ability to become a dictator, but refused it. That alone makes him better than 99% of people in history


I agree, he could have easily run and won a third term but he decided not to.


Way more than that, several members of congress wanted to make him emperor-for-life and he turned them all down, opting instead to return to Mt Vernon after 8 years. Abe Lincoln was great, but Wahington is the clear pick for those reasons.
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Whitemore
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Postby Whitemore » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:09 am

No State Here wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:As good as that is, it's hard to top Abe.

One could argue lincoln was a tyrant, although in my opinion such actions were necessary for ending slavery


I see him as a tyrant. The Constitution bent but never broke, though I can kind of see it as necessary in order to keep the country united.
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:10 am

Libertas Omnium Maximus wrote:
Whitemore wrote:
I agree, he could have easily run and won a third term but he decided not to.


Way more than that, several members of congress wanted to make him emperor-for-life and he turned them all down, opting instead to return to Mt Vernon after 8 years. Abe Lincoln was great, but Wahington is the clear pick for those reasons.

It’s hard to resist absolute power when it’s so close to you, but Washington, unlike pretty much everyone else, actively refused it. That alone makes him one of history’s greatest men in my eyes

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Vu Den Voc
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Postby Vu Den Voc » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:17 am

To be honest its hard to choose not because both of them are great but because of their dark hidden pasts. According to https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-l ... ty-oppose/ Lincoln clearly expressed opposition to civil rights. While Lincoln did some things for the African American community , it was minimal and wasn't directly for them. Abraham Lincoln's focus was more n uniting the south with the north, and abolishing slavery was part of that. There were much more radical republican that wanted to do way more than Lincoln. Same goes for Washington. Washington personally owned slaves himself despite the constitution saying all men are created equal (back then it only pertained to white men). Both were terrible people in their own right so I say none. However by accomplishments and having a good public image, the clear winner is Abraham Lincoln. My personal favorites are FDR and Lyndon B Johnson, since one helped the US out of an economic crisis and the other helping with civil rights.
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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:20 am

Vu Den Voc wrote:To be honest its hard to choose not because both of them are great but because of their dark hidden pasts. According to https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-l ... ty-oppose/ Lincoln clearly expressed opposition to civil rights. While Lincoln did some things for the African American community , it was minimal and wasn't directly for them. Abraham Lincoln's focus was more n uniting the south with the north, and abolishing slavery was part of that. There were much more radical republican that wanted to do way more than Lincoln. Same goes for Washington. Washington personally owned slaves himself despite the constitution saying all men are created equal (back then it only pertained to white men). Both were terrible people in their own right so I say none. However by accomplishments and having a good public image, the clear winner is Abraham Lincoln. My personal favorites are FDR and Lyndon B Johnson, since one helped the US out of an economic crisis and the other helping with civil rights.

You say they were bad people and didn't really care about civil rights, yet FDR signed the order to put Japanese in concentration camps.
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:21 am

Empirical Switzerland wrote:
Vu Den Voc wrote:To be honest its hard to choose not because both of them are great but because of their dark hidden pasts. According to https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-l ... ty-oppose/ Lincoln clearly expressed opposition to civil rights. While Lincoln did some things for the African American community , it was minimal and wasn't directly for them. Abraham Lincoln's focus was more n uniting the south with the north, and abolishing slavery was part of that. There were much more radical republican that wanted to do way more than Lincoln. Same goes for Washington. Washington personally owned slaves himself despite the constitution saying all men are created equal (back then it only pertained to white men). Both were terrible people in their own right so I say none. However by accomplishments and having a good public image, the clear winner is Abraham Lincoln. My personal favorites are FDR and Lyndon B Johnson, since one helped the US out of an economic crisis and the other helping with civil rights.

You say they were bad people and didn't really care about civil rights, yet FDR signed the order to put Japanese in concentration camps.

Concentration camp is a very loaded term. Certainly they were terrible, but when someone invokes the term "concentration camp," everyone immediately thinks about those concentration camps, when in reality the two were in no way comparable

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Postby Jabberwocky » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:22 am

It seems like a moot point.
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Postby Vu Den Voc » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:30 am

You are right! I feel like all the president's have failed in some sort of way. The Japanese contrecation camps was one of times that America was close to fascism and Anti American hysteria. Some may also say that he stayed in office way too long and he was the reason why there is an amendment controlling how many terms a president can serve. There is good and bad in every leader. History sadly forgets the imperfections of these leaders. I like FDR not for his treatment of the Japanese , but for his economic polices. Its disappointing however how he treated the Japanese and nothing justify it. Not even FDR's polices for fixing the economy justifies that. I'm glad you know your history and I respect that. I know many people who are clueless on history and TRUST ME they are not fun to talk to.
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Postby Empirical Switzerland » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:34 am

Vu Den Voc wrote:You are right! I feel like all the president's have failed in some sort of way. The Japanese contrecation camps was one of times that America was close to fascism and Anti American hysteria. Some may also say that he stayed in office way too long and he was the reason why there is an amendment controlling how many terms a president can serve. There is good and bad in every leader. History sadly forgets the imperfections of these leaders. I like FDR not for his treatment of the Japanese , but for his economic polices. Its disappointing however how he treated the Japanese and nothing justify it. Not even FDR's polices for fixing the economy justifies that. I'm glad you know your history and I respect that. I know many people who are clueless on history and TRUST ME they are not fun to talk to.

Lol, 100% agreed with your last sentence. Thanks.
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Postby Kiu Ghesik » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:34 am

Vu Den Voc wrote:You are right! I feel like all the president's have failed in some sort of way. The Japanese contrecation camps was one of times that America was close to fascism and Anti American hysteria. Some may also say that he stayed in office way too long and he was the reason why there is an amendment controlling how many terms a president can serve. There is good and bad in every leader. History sadly forgets the imperfections of these leaders. I like FDR not for his treatment of the Japanese , but for his economic polices. Its disappointing however how he treated the Japanese and nothing justify it. Not even FDR's polices for fixing the economy justifies that. I'm glad you know your history and I respect that. I know many people who are clueless on history and TRUST ME they are not fun to talk to.

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Postby Alternamerica » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:47 am

Abe kept the country together, kept the European powers from exploiting the conflict, boosted industry, and introduced income tax to better fund community projects
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:52 am

Lincoln because he inherited the worst situation possible from his predecessor.
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Postby Echellia » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:11 am

Abraham Lincoln by a slim margin.
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Postby Kathol Rift » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:17 am

I’d have to say Washington. The man led us through the Revolution and won, not because he was some tactical genius or perfect soldier, but because he was a natural leader. Nobody else could have done what he did. Then he was unanimously elected to lead the country as it formed, and he could have become an absolute dictator, and very few would have opposed him on it. But to turn down that power and set the precedent of two terms takes a real leader, who not only knows when he is needed to lead, but also when he is needed not to. Abe was cool, don’t get me wrong, but he doesn’t approach Washington in my opinion.
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Postby United Hemand Insia » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:20 am

I personally would Abraham, especially after the Civil War. Abe didn't own slaves like George did.
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