NATION

PASSWORD

For the Empire?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What do you say?

“We surrender. Here, take what you want, leave us alone.”
10
32%
“For... FOR THE EMPIRE!”
21
68%
 
Total votes : 31

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

For the Empire?

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:26 pm

Please consider the following hypothetical:

The Empire has become weak, a pale shadow of its former glory.

For 200-300 years you have colonized entire continents and dominated the world militarily, economically and politically.

However, as a result of corruption from the capital, endless wars and rebellions, and an increasingly obsolescent economic system, the last 100 years has been a terrible 100 years of decline. Almost all of your colonies are gone and now you are a relatively weak nation. However, you still have a proud military tradition and history of imperialism.

The Republic of Truth And Justice is becoming increasingly powerful on the world stage. They want to signal their entry into world affairs by beating someone up. They decide to pick on your Empire and target your last few colonies close to their continent.

The Republic is interested in the resources of your colonies but they spin and create a narrative of Freedom and Independence. They issue a series of absolutely unreasonable ultimatums to you (demanding you give up all remaining colonies immediately, cede all forward military bases to them and pay a large lump sum of “compensation money” to them which they will then ostensibly give to the natives as compensation for your oppression... it’s a ridiculous sum). The terms are unreasonable enough you feel they are only issuing these in the hopes that you’ll decline and give them pretext for war.

As your administration considers the terms, a Republic battleship explodes while docked at your harbor. You are then blamed for the explosion and the deaths of Republic sailors.

The Republic tells you you have five days to accept all terms or they will declare war. Their massive naval force starts moving into position.

...

The balance of forces is as follows:

1. The Republic has several times your total population (counting colonies).
2. The Republic has a navy several times bigger than yours; their warships are more technologically advanced by miles.
3. The Republic has an economy that is several times larger than yours.
4. The Republic has an easier time resupplying the battle fronts. They are closer to your last few colonies than you are to them.
5. Because of the Freedom propaganda of the Republic, they are more popular with the colonial subjects. In fact, it’s expected that a large number of colonial guerilla fighters will move against you should war break out.
6. The Great Nations (international community) is sitting this one out, they prioritize trade with the Republic at all cost.


...

You have two choices.

Option 1: Roll over and give the Republic everything they want to avert war. Your Empire crumbles with a whimper, lives however, are saved.

Option 2: Defend your honor and fight the Republic, knowing you will lose. However, no one messes with the Empire without a fight. This is a matter of pride and honor. You will likely suffer the humiliation of military defeat, but not the humiliation of having never fought.

...

What do you choose? Why?

For me, Option 2. No Empire under my watch goes out without one last fight.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Sundiata
Senator
 
Posts: 3922
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Sundiata » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:30 pm

One, there was a time I would have answered two but that's the voice of pride. It's better to live in peace.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 12873
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:35 pm

Option One. Why would I not? This Republic sounds amazing. Independence, freedom... my goodness, they truly have it all.

Gazing up with teary eyes, I await the fall of the Empire. All the suffering has been worth it. The Empire will soon -- as history shows all dictatorships eventually must -- succumb to its own corruption.

And, in the distant colonies, receiving their liberation, I hear the triumphant calls:
Do you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men?
This is the music of a people who will not be slaves again...
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:53 pm

Sundiata wrote:One, there was a time I would have answered two but that's the voice of pride. It's better to live in peace.


I see. Is this because of life experiences? You got into some fights that could/should have been avoided? :)

User avatar
Dominioan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1013
Founded: Dec 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:58 pm

I'm a useless coward, option one.
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

User avatar
Sundiata
Senator
 
Posts: 3922
Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Sundiata » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:02 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Sundiata wrote:One, there was a time I would have answered two but that's the voice of pride. It's better to live in peace.


I see. Is this because of life experiences? You got into some fights that could/should have been avoided? :)

Yes.

I had love but I did not feel it, as time passes I understand its value more each day. I am content now. But what was once disposable gains value with time. We live in a wonderful world that we should not, must not waste.
Gender: Male
Religion: Catholic (Opus Dei)
Politics: Solidarity (Catholic Social Teaching)
Economics: Rerum Novarum (The Encyclical)
Alignment: Lawful Good

"Don't say, 'That person bothers me.' Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'"
-St. Josemaria Escriva (Founder of Opus Dei)

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:02 pm

Dominioan wrote:I'm a useless coward, option one.


The Republic does have a lot a lot of military advantages :(

I understand where you’re coming from

User avatar
Dominioan
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1013
Founded: Dec 10, 2019
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dominioan » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:07 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Dominioan wrote:I'm a useless coward, option one.


The Republic does have a lot a lot of military advantages :(

I understand where you’re coming from

Its really that I don't want to die honestly (I am assuming Im spared).
TG me with recommendations on factbooks, if you want
Overview
The smarter I get, the less optimistic I get
Heres this

Centre-Left something
Founder of my region of about 100 Bluecrown Keep!


Oil

User avatar
Punished UMN
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1225
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:10 pm

Option 3, reject the ultimatum, but only offer a token resistance.
Still lurking in the community, but don't expect much engagement.
Rawlsian socialist and Constitutional Monarchist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize
Asexual man.

User avatar
Asdel
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Oct 12, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Asdel » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:13 pm

I'd go for the Empire, but then... military wise... the Republic seems to be a better option... Why can't I pick both, and just watch them fall apart?! :p I'd rather take the advantage of crumbling apart altogether.

Update: Option 4: Take neither side and instead take advantage of these two nations to the maximum when the war begins.
Last edited by Asdel on Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:16 pm

Dominioan wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Republic does have a lot a lot of military advantages :(

I understand where you’re coming from

Its really that I don't want to die honestly (I am assuming Im spared).


I see...

User avatar
Rusozak
Minister
 
Posts: 3224
Founded: Jun 14, 2015
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rusozak » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:17 pm

This sounds like the Spanish-American War.
NOTE: This nation's government style, policies, and opinions in roleplay or forum 7 does not represent my true beliefs. It is purely for the enjoyment of the game.

User avatar
Punished UMN
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1225
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:21 pm

Rusozak wrote:This sounds like the Spanish-American War.

Because it is.
Still lurking in the community, but don't expect much engagement.
Rawlsian socialist and Constitutional Monarchist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize
Asexual man.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:22 pm

Rusozak wrote:This sounds like the Spanish-American War.


The scenario is heavily inspired by the Spanish-American War.

In that war, the Spanish did choose to fight. They lost the war but they fought with honor.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:22 pm

Punished UMN wrote:Option 3, reject the ultimatum, but only offer a token resistance.


Hmmm... I see...

But why? :)

User avatar
Punished UMN
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1225
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:23 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Option 3, reject the ultimatum, but only offer a token resistance.


Hmmm... I see...

But why? :)

Because the colonies are a liability to the empire's ability to reform internally, but the humiliation of just rolling over must be avoided.
Still lurking in the community, but don't expect much engagement.
Rawlsian socialist and Constitutional Monarchist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize
Asexual man.

User avatar
Purpelia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34249
Founded: Oct 19, 2010
Libertarian Police State

Postby Purpelia » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:23 pm

So basically this is the Spanish-American war?
Purpelia does not reflect my actual world views. In fact, the vast majority of Purpelian cannon is meant to shock and thus deliberately insane. I just like playing with the idea of a country of madmen utterly convinced that everyone else are the barbarians. So play along or not but don't ever think it's for real.



The above post contains hyperbole, metaphoric language, embellishment and exaggeration. It may also include badly translated figures of speech and misused idioms. Analyze accordingly.

User avatar
Asdel
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Oct 12, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Asdel » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:25 pm

Purpelia wrote:So basically this is the Spanish-American war?

Looks like it :P

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:26 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Hmmm... I see...

But why? :)

Because the colonies are a liability to the empire's ability to reform internally, but the humiliation of just rolling over must be avoided.


So then you declare war/respond with some calls to arms...

But keep the Main battle fleets and task forces back? :)

User avatar
Punished UMN
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1225
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:29 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Because the colonies are a liability to the empire's ability to reform internally, but the humiliation of just rolling over must be avoided.


So then you declare war/respond with some calls to arms...

But keep the Main battle fleets and task forces back? :)

Yes.
Still lurking in the community, but don't expect much engagement.
Rawlsian socialist and Constitutional Monarchist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize
Asexual man.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:31 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
So then you declare war/respond with some calls to arms...

But keep the Main battle fleets and task forces back? :)

Yes.


“Outpost is being overrun.”

“Outpost is being overrun.”

You: “Hold your positions.”

The battleship commanders in game chat: (spam the ? ping over and over)

“Outpost is being overrun.”

User avatar
Punished UMN
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1225
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:33 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Yes.


“Outpost is being overrun.”

“Outpost is being overrun.”

You: “Hold your positions.”

The battleship commanders in game chat: (spam the ? ping over and over)

“Outpost is being overrun.”

The fleet admirals would know what's up.
Still lurking in the community, but don't expect much engagement.
Rawlsian socialist and Constitutional Monarchist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize
Asexual man.

User avatar
MineLegotia and Equestria
Envoy
 
Posts: 314
Founded: Jul 22, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby MineLegotia and Equestria » Wed Oct 21, 2020 11:41 pm

It is a matter of honour.

Plus if we did fight even if we are guaranteed to lose, it'd make a cool alt-history scenario for future people to play in HoI4
Think MLP but darker, combined with British Imperialism, German-Chinese Culture, and Stellaris levels of Diversity of Species
Christian Conservative and borderline Libertarian
"All posts are personal, does not represent any organization I'm in, unless stated"
Parliament debates over new SAR legislation | "Form 59-1" New slang for Idioicracy!

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Shanghai industrial complex
Minister
 
Posts: 2466
Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Shanghai industrial complex » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:00 am

For of the Emperor!(LOL)
We are Emperor's Children?
And we give it back to you...the people!

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34188
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:04 am

Shanghai industrial complex wrote:For of the Emperor!(LOL)
We are Emperor's Children?


The culture of the empire can be re-imagined to an extent. So if you like Japan, you can imagine a Japan style empire.

It’s heavily based on the Spanish-American War but as stated in the hypothetical, it’s abstract enough that if you want to imagine different aesthetics you can :)

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