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"Sex-Work"

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should prostitution be legal, illegal, or decriminalized?

It should be legal to buy and sell sex, let me explain why.
64
65%
It should be legal to buy sex but illegal to sell sex, let me explain why.
2
2%
It should be legal to buy sex but illegal to sell sex, let me explain why.
0
No votes
It should be illegal to buy and sell sex, let me explain why.
18
18%
Sex-work should be decriminalized, let me explain why.
15
15%
 
Total votes : 99

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Sundiata
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"Sex-Work"

Postby Sundiata » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:12 pm

Hello everyone.

It has been brought to my attention that many of us have a wide-array of perspectives on the subject of sex-work. I think you most of you have a sense of my perspective on this, I don't approve of prostitution in any form. I think it's an ugly thing, a degrading thing for anyone to participate in. However, the question of legality is tricky for me.

At the moment, I personally do not believe that criminalizing prostitution (buying and selling) is the best way to end it. If I had it my way, people would voluntary choose to not buy or sell sex but we're dealing with human nature here.

However, if prostitution is illegal I believe that victims of human trafficking are liable to be unjustly prosecuted depending upon the legal jurisdiction.

Ultimately, there is a difference between the following: illegal, legal, and decriminalized.

What do you think?
Last edited by Sundiata on Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:14 pm

It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:17 pm

Senkaku wrote:It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

I personally don't believe that it should be driven underground to the extent that it is criminalized, but I certainly do think it's immoral.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:17 pm

Senkaku wrote:It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

It wouldn't exist in an economically just society because there would be no niche for it to exist in.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:18 pm

It should be decriminalized just to protect the people involved. Morality is, to me, a separate issue that should come after protecting people.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:19 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Senkaku wrote:It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

It wouldn't exist in an economically just society because there would be no niche for it to exist in.

A Distributist society probably wouldn't permit it for both economic and moral reasons.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:19 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Senkaku wrote:It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

I personally don't believe that it should be driven underground to the extent that it is criminalized, but I certainly do think it's immoral.

Lots of things people think are immoral are way too much of a pain in the ass to ban.

Punished UMN wrote:
Senkaku wrote:It’s called the oldest profession for a reason. We might as well make it safe for the parties at both ends of the transaction (and for the rest of society) rather than driving it underground, because it clearly isn’t going anywhere.

It wouldn't exist in an economically just society because there would be no niche for it to exist in.

Give me a call when you’ve built an economically just society and we can go out and see if you’re right about that. I don’t think you will be, but it’s sort of a moot point, isn’t it?
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:20 pm

Geneviev wrote:It should be decriminalized just to protect the people involved. Morality is, to me, a separate issue that should come after protecting people.

It should be fully legalized, because the gray zone where it’s not illegal to sell but it’s still illegal to buy or whatever still leaves people unprotected and lets criminal elements get involved
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:21 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Geneviev wrote:It should be decriminalized just to protect the people involved. Morality is, to me, a separate issue that should come after protecting people.

It should be fully legalized, because the gray zone where it’s not illegal to sell but it’s still illegal to buy or whatever still leaves people unprotected and lets criminal elements get involved

Why legalized rather than decriminalized?
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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:23 pm

It's not my cup of tea, but making it legal, getting workers to be licensed and tested regularly for STIs to protect both their clients and themselves, and regulating it and giving sex workers safe places to work (ie a legal brothel/sex club/ whatever where there are bouncers/guards to protect them) is probably the best way to ensure everyone's safety (but primarily, the workers').

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:23 pm

I'm personally against legalizing it because of the whole slew of issues that impact sex workers (worse mental health, generally lower quality of life etc etc) and the difficulties it raises in integrating those people into wider society. I have no academic sources on the latter but just from talking with current and former sex workers they pretty unanimously said it's difficult to hold friendships, relationships, form new careers etc etc.

Ideally we'd try and reach a point where people don't need to sell themselves to survive because that's capitalism distilled down to its most basic and disgusting form.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:24 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Geneviev wrote:It should be decriminalized just to protect the people involved. Morality is, to me, a separate issue that should come after protecting people.

It should be fully legalized, because the gray zone where it’s not illegal to sell but it’s still illegal to buy or whatever still leaves people unprotected and lets criminal elements get involved

The problem with legalizing it would be that there is the possibility of regulations that can result in harming people more than protecting them. Decriminalizing it and only making trafficking fully illegal should be the most effective way to protect people.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:25 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm personally against legalizing it because of the whole slew of issues that impact sex workers (worse mental health, generally lower quality of life etc etc) and the difficulties it raises in integrating those people into wider society. I have no academic sources on the latter but just from talking with current and former sex workers they pretty unanimously said it's difficult to hold friendships, relationships, form new careers etc etc.

Ideally we'd try and reach a point where people don't need to sell themselves to survive because that's capitalism distilled down to its most basic and disgusting form.

Precisely.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:25 pm

It should be legal, unless someone involved is a minor or something, of course.

Regulated of course, to prevent abuse as much as possible, but it's better than forcing it into the shadows where criminals hold sway and abuse abounds.

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:29 pm

I 100% support all sex worker unless it involves minors and/or kidnapping or exploitation. You know I think the world would be a pretty dull place without strippers, prostitutes and porn stars.
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Purpelia
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Postby Purpelia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:29 pm

Its a job like any other. I really do not see a difference.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:30 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm personally against legalizing it because of the whole slew of issues that impact sex workers (worse mental health, generally lower quality of life etc etc) and the difficulties it raises in integrating those people into wider society. I have no academic sources on the latter but just from talking with current and former sex workers they pretty unanimously said it's difficult to hold friendships, relationships, form new careers etc etc.

Ideally we'd try and reach a point where people don't need to sell themselves to survive because that's capitalism distilled down to its most basic and disgusting form.

Wonder if the Christian position on sex and the influence of that onto greater societal moral standards have anything to do with that...
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:31 pm

Sundiata wrote:
Senkaku wrote:It should be fully legalized, because the gray zone where it’s not illegal to sell but it’s still illegal to buy or whatever still leaves people unprotected and lets criminal elements get involved

Why legalized rather than decriminalized?

France decriminalized the sale in 2016 but still fines people caught buying— and the result has been more violence against sex workers as they have to work underground so their clients don’t get caught and are thus less able to be protected by the police. Iirc Sweden, Britain, and Canada have had similar problems— better to just legalize it. Prostitutes won’t be afraid of getting attacked by a client or arrested, clients won’t be afraid of getting attacked by a prostitute or arrested, both can just have their transaction in a safe environment assured of the protection of the law if the other tries to hurt them, and prostitutes will be able to go into business together and make the business even safer and more legitimate.

If we’re going to stop making it illegal, I think we should just... fully legalize it. Creating legal gray zones for things, be it prostitution, drugs, etc., usually doesn’t work out great. And we know that sex is going to continue being bought and sold until we somehow change our society in a way that no civilization in history has ever managed... so let’s stop making it such a problem for all of us. No one likes having to fish dead hookers out of canals.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:32 pm

Kowani wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm personally against legalizing it because of the whole slew of issues that impact sex workers (worse mental health, generally lower quality of life etc etc) and the difficulties it raises in integrating those people into wider society. I have no academic sources on the latter but just from talking with current and former sex workers they pretty unanimously said it's difficult to hold friendships, relationships, form new careers etc etc.

Ideally we'd try and reach a point where people don't need to sell themselves to survive because that's capitalism distilled down to its most basic and disgusting form.

Wonder if the Christian position on sex and the influence of that onto greater societal moral standards have anything to do with that...

It's not just the Christian position on sex that sex should be exclusive to their partners.

The fact of the matter is that having to sell one's body to live is capitalist exploitation boiled down to its most basic.
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Torisakia
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Postby Torisakia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 pm

If sex work becomes a legitimate form of business, will their stocks pay dividends? Or do I have to sell it? Because my answer to the OP's question relies heavily on the answer of my question.
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Senkaku
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Postby Senkaku » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm personally against legalizing it because of the whole slew of issues that impact sex workers (worse mental health, generally lower quality of life etc etc) and the difficulties it raises in integrating those people into wider society. I have no academic sources on the latter but just from talking with current and former sex workers they pretty unanimously said it's difficult to hold friendships, relationships, form new careers etc etc.

Ideally we'd try and reach a point where people don't need to sell themselves to survive because that's capitalism distilled down to its most basic and disgusting form.

Lots of jobs impact people’s mental health and quality of life, and most jobs today are literally selling your body to survive. What do you think a Walgreens cashier or an Amazon warehouse worker or a hospital temperature checker is doing, if not selling use of their body for a period of time?

If sex work were legal and sex workers could safely conduct their business, live openly, and be assured of health and safety like most other wage laborers, perhaps the problems they face would be a bit less acute.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:34 pm

Legalize it but highly regulate it to protect sex workers and invest in things like welfare to prevent people being driven to it by desperation. If its going to exist we might as well make it so that those involved are protected.
Last edited by Andsed on Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sundiata
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Postby Sundiata » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:36 pm

I've updated the poll everyone.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:36 pm

I'll certainly agree that in a perfect world nobody would have to do it to earn money, but that's not really a reason to make life worse for people who do have to do it in the world we do live in.

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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:36 pm

Senkaku wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:I'm personally against legalizing it because of the whole slew of issues that impact sex workers (worse mental health, generally lower quality of life etc etc) and the difficulties it raises in integrating those people into wider society. I have no academic sources on the latter but just from talking with current and former sex workers they pretty unanimously said it's difficult to hold friendships, relationships, form new careers etc etc.

Ideally we'd try and reach a point where people don't need to sell themselves to survive because that's capitalism distilled down to its most basic and disgusting form.

Lots of jobs impact people’s mental health and quality of life, and most jobs today are literally selling your body to survive. What do you think a Walgreens cashier or an Amazon warehouse worker or a hospital temperature checker is doing, if not selling use of their body for a period of time?

If sex work were legal and sex workers could safely conduct their business, live openly, and be assured of health and safety like most other wage laborers, perhaps the problems they face would be a bit less acute.

If sex work is legalized, will sex workers have to follow the same regulations as all other businesses?
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