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The Worst President in US History? 「Yes or No?」

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is He (Buchanan) the Worst President in US History? 「Yes or No?」

Yes: Hate you, I'm fine living without you
26
41%
No: I love you so much
15
23%
Maybe: Should I tell you or not?
5
8%
No Opinion: 'Cause I Don't Care
18
28%
 
Total votes : 64

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Sanghyeok
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The Worst President in US History? 「Yes or No?」

Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:59 pm

People often discuss who the best and worst leaders of a country might be, and the United States is no exception. Leaders of a country are generally ranked on their capabilities in several areas, such as economics, foreign relations, and domestic order, in addition to their personal morals. In the US, while there are some presidents who are controversial and interpreted as either great and benevolent or terrible and unworthy, there are also presidents so terrible they are universally derided by historians and public alike. Currently, most lists contain Hoover (he promoted his poor economic policy), Harding (his corruption), and Johnson (he was against many post US Civil war initiatives for reconstruction, and personally stalled them). Number one is usually Buchanan, for his failure to stop forces leading to secession for the southern part of the US. Many note that his failure to halt that movement directly led to the US Civil War later on, but those defending him claim no politician could have prevented it, only mitigated them for some time.

With that, I want to ask everyone: was Buchanan really the worst president in the history of the US? I argue that this is likely true, given his gross incompetence, although there are also some other candidates I have a more personal dislike for such as Jackson. But that is my opinion and you are free to debate below.

Edit: I want to mention that there were some people in the election thread who led me to do some research on this topic, so thank you.
Last edited by Sanghyeok on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:04 pm

He was pretty bad, but there have been worse. Like Andrew Jackson. He’s probably in the top five for bad POTUS.
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:06 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:He was pretty bad, but there have been worse. Like Andrew Jackson. He’s probably in the top five for bad POTUS.


Yes, I think Jackson is pretty bad as well. Although I haven't seen any lists where he is number one. Is there a reason you dislike him even more than Buchanan?

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Atheris
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Atheris » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:07 pm

No. That role belongs to Woodrow Wilson and Woodrow Wilson alone.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:07 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:He was pretty bad, but there have been worse. Like Andrew Jackson. He’s probably in the top five for bad POTUS.


Yes, I think Jackson is pretty bad as well. Although I haven't seen any lists where he is number one. Is there a reason you dislike him even more than Buchanan?


I don’t know if worse, but he’s in that top. The Trail of Tears specifically, with Jackson.
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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:08 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
Yes, I think Jackson is pretty bad as well. Although I haven't seen any lists where he is number one. Is there a reason you dislike him even more than Buchanan?


I don’t know if worse, but he’s in that top. The Trail of Tears specifically, with Jackson.


Oh, I almost forgot that that particular incident was his doing.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Posts: 194102
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:08 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I don’t know if worse, but he’s in that top. The Trail of Tears specifically, with Jackson.


Oh, I almost forgot that that particular incident was his doing.


The Indian Removal Act, yep.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Heartless, ''transgendered non-binary kawaii Chan'', & a d*ck.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Sanghyeok
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:09 pm

Atheris wrote:No. That role belongs to Woodrow Wilson and Woodrow Wilson alone.


I wouldn't say he is worse than Jackson, for example.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Serbia-Macebonia
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New York Times Democracy

Postby Serbia-Macebonia » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:10 pm

Honestly, Buchanan and Wilson tied for first. Jackson second. Bush somewhere top 10. Unpopular opinion, but I'd put FDR top 10 too. Court packing, spending spending spending, FOUR terms, etc.
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Serbia-Macebonia
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Postby Serbia-Macebonia » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:10 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Atheris wrote:No. That role belongs to Woodrow Wilson and Woodrow Wilson alone.


I wouldn't say he is worse than Jackson, for example.


He was literally a KKK member? :eyebrow:
Last edited by Serbia-Macebonia on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aged 24.5
Marylander turned Coloradoan turned Montanan
Father of 2
Country Music Fan
Proud Ford Driver
#Trump2020
Member of Europe
Imperium Anglorum is my daddy
"All are equal before the law, but I am more equal"
- The Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth
| The Republic of Serbia-Macedonia |
| Proud Member of GRAIL |

| The Republic of |
| -----Serbia---- |
| ---Macedonia--- |





Oct. 17, 2020 | COVID-19 numbers fall for fifth straight day since Tuesday, President Navanyovich credits experimental American treatments such as Remdesivir and Hydroxychloroquine | Stocks jump to 17000, NSOI set to reach record numbers by end of Q3 | Liberal gubernatorial seat in Vojvodina heats up as incumbent dies, special election scheduled

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:10 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Atheris wrote:No. That role belongs to Woodrow Wilson and Woodrow Wilson alone.


I wouldn't say he is worse than Jackson, for example.

He desegregated the federal government, was a KKK supporter, and laid the foundation for American "iNtErVenTiOnIsM" for the 20th and 21st century. Literally everything after WW1 happened because of him. Communism, the Nazis, the Cold War, the Iraq War, 9/11 - all of them can be linked back to Woodrow Wilson and how much of a pansy he was.
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Kathol Rift
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Postby Kathol Rift » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:11 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
Oh, I almost forgot that that particular incident was his doing.


The Indian Removal Act, yep.

Not only that, but his refusal to sign the charter of the 2nd Bank of the United States led to a period of time when there was no standard currency in the nation, which led to tons of economic problems that everyone forgets about. That doesn’t make him nearly as bad of a person as the Trail of Tears does, but it is another piece of evidence for him being a bad President.
| As a nerd, I do use NS stats | the three B’s: Big Guns, Big Robots, Big Tanks |

I’m a Christian. I don’t try to convert people or threaten hellfire and brimstone, I just try to be a good person and a Christian, and hope that’s good enough.

I do happen to be a straight white male, and my Dad is a policeman, so feel free to call me bigoted just because of how I was born. I’ll gladly ignore you and bask in the irony. That being said, I don’t want to argue about things like this.

I’m an aspiring author. I’m working on a book right now, actually. Feel free to ask me about it if you want your head filled with useless facts about its universe.


Racism is bad, everyone. But hating all cops is just as bad. Let’s try to accept everyone.

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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:12 pm

Atheris wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
I wouldn't say he is worse than Jackson, for example.

He desegregated the federal government, was a KKK supporter, and laid the foundation for American "iNtErVenTiOnIsM" for the 20th and 21st century. Literally everything after WW1 happened because of him. Communism, the Nazis, the Cold War, the Iraq War, 9/11 - all of them can be linked back to Woodrow Wilson and how much of a pansy he was.


I have read that Wilson sent soldiers to Russia to fight against the revolution, yes.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:12 pm

The worst president in US history is the one currently sitting in the White House (or should I say Mar-a-Lago). That isn't hyperbole. Every president in US history has done at least something good or had good intentions even if they failed miserably, except Trump. He has no positives. He has no pros. He has no achievements, victories, or successes worth celebrating or that have benefited anyone except himself, his family, and the country's wealthiest. He's quite literally done nothing good for this country at all, nor did he ever intend to. He's a conman. He ran a con. That's what conmen do.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:12 pm

Kathol Rift wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
The Indian Removal Act, yep.

Not only that, but his refusal to sign the charter of the 2nd Bank of the United States led to a period of time when there was no standard currency in the nation, which led to tons of economic problems that everyone forgets about. That doesn’t make him nearly as bad of a person as the Trail of Tears does, but it is another piece of evidence for him being a bad President.


Oh, I don’t disagree. I just think that in that Top 10-Top 5 list, he’s not number one but he’s up there, at least to me.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:13 pm

Yes Buchanan was the worst. His inaction was a major factor that led to the civil war.

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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:13 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The worst president in US history is the one currently sitting in the White House (or should I say Mar-a-Lago). That isn't hyperbole. Every president in US history has done at least something good or had good intentions even if they failed miserably, except Trump. He has no positives. He has no pros. He has no achievements, victories, or successes worth celebrating or that have benefited anyone except himself, his family, and the country's wealthiest. He's quite literally done nothing good for this country at all, nor did he ever intend to. He's a conman. He ran a con. That's what conmen do.


Strongly disagree. Trump is terrible, by all means, but more incompetent and selfish than anything else.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Aureumterra III
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Postby Aureumterra III » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:14 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The worst president in US history is the one currently sitting in the White House (or should I say Mar-a-Lago). That isn't hyperbole. Every president in US history has done at least something good or had good intentions even if they failed miserably, except Trump. He has no positives. He has no pros. He has no achievements, victories, or successes worth celebrating or that have benefited anyone except himself, his family, and the country's wealthiest. He's quite literally done nothing good for this country at all, nor did he ever intend to. He's a conman. He ran a con. That's what conmen do.

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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:14 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The worst president in US history is the one currently sitting in the White House (or should I say Mar-a-Lago). That isn't hyperbole. Every president in US history has done at least something good or had good intentions even if they failed miserably, except Trump. He has no positives. He has no pros. He has no achievements, victories, or successes worth celebrating or that have benefited anyone except himself, his family, and the country's wealthiest. He's quite literally done nothing good for this country at all, nor did he ever intend to. He's a conman. He ran a con. That's what conmen do.


Morally, I agree that he is not a good person, and his views are abhorrent. However, I think his legacy will be gone in a few decades.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Kathol Rift
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 474
Founded: Mar 12, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kathol Rift » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:14 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:The worst president in US history is the one currently sitting in the White House (or should I say Mar-a-Lago). That isn't hyperbole. Every president in US history has done at least something good or had good intentions even if they failed miserably, except Trump. He has no positives. He has no pros. He has no achievements, victories, or successes worth celebrating or that have benefited anyone except himself, his family, and the country's wealthiest. He's quite literally done nothing good for this country at all, nor did he ever intend to. He's a conman. He ran a con. That's what conmen do.

Trump honestly gets a really bad rep. I don’t like the guy at all, but he’s not the incarnation of evil that folks like you make him out to be. There have been multiple presidents in history that have done far, far worse things than him, and been way worse people.
| As a nerd, I do use NS stats | the three B’s: Big Guns, Big Robots, Big Tanks |

I’m a Christian. I don’t try to convert people or threaten hellfire and brimstone, I just try to be a good person and a Christian, and hope that’s good enough.

I do happen to be a straight white male, and my Dad is a policeman, so feel free to call me bigoted just because of how I was born. I’ll gladly ignore you and bask in the irony. That being said, I don’t want to argue about things like this.

I’m an aspiring author. I’m working on a book right now, actually. Feel free to ask me about it if you want your head filled with useless facts about its universe.


Racism is bad, everyone. But hating all cops is just as bad. Let’s try to accept everyone.

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Sanghyeok
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Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:16 pm

Kathol Rift wrote:Trump honestly gets a really bad rep. I don’t like the guy at all, but he’s not the incarnation of evil that folks like you make him out to be. There have been multiple presidents in history that have done far, far worse things than him, and been way worse people.


I believe that his terrible reputation is earned, although again I do not think what he has done yet makes him worse than Buchanan.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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Atheris
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Posts: 2825
Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Atheris » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:16 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Atheris wrote:He desegregated the federal government, was a KKK supporter, and laid the foundation for American "iNtErVenTiOnIsM" for the 20th and 21st century. Literally everything after WW1 happened because of him. Communism, the Nazis, the Cold War, the Iraq War, 9/11 - all of them can be linked back to Woodrow Wilson and how much of a pansy he was.


I have read that Wilson sent soldiers to Russia to fight against the revolution, yes.

He's also the cause of literally everything related to the US and Europe that happened after Versailles, and this is not hyperbole. If he lost in 1912 by let's say Taft not running again, then WW1 would be shorter because of Teddy Roosevelt. There'd be no Russian Revolution, which (likely) means no Nazis, which means no Holocaust, which means no Arab/Israeli conflict, which means a significant lack of rise in Arab nationalism and Ba'athism, which means no Nasser, Saddam, or al-Assad, which means no Gulf War, which means no Iraq War, which means no ISIL. Without the Russian Revolution, the USSR never forms, so the Cuban Missile Crisis never happens, China remains nationalist, North Korea never exists, the Eastern Bloc is never formed, Afghanistan is never invaded, the Taliban doesn't take the country over, and 9/11 doesn't happen.
Last edited by Atheris on Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Do not TG me with no good reason.
I'm still mad over NQ's ban!
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"To comment is human, to preview, divine." - Godot
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I write AA fanfiction. Fuck you if you judge me.
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Kargintina the Third
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Postby Kargintina the Third » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:16 pm

I believe the honor can safely go to William Henry Harrison

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Kathol Rift
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Postby Kathol Rift » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:18 pm

Sanghyeok wrote:
Kathol Rift wrote:Trump honestly gets a really bad rep. I don’t like the guy at all, but he’s not the incarnation of evil that folks like you make him out to be. There have been multiple presidents in history that have done far, far worse things than him, and been way worse people.


I believe that his terrible reputation is earned, although again I do not think what he has done yet makes him worse than Buchanan.

Oh, I agree. Like I said, I don’t like him. I just don’t think he’s really anywhere close to the worst, considering Jackson, Buchanan, and a few others.
| As a nerd, I do use NS stats | the three B’s: Big Guns, Big Robots, Big Tanks |

I’m a Christian. I don’t try to convert people or threaten hellfire and brimstone, I just try to be a good person and a Christian, and hope that’s good enough.

I do happen to be a straight white male, and my Dad is a policeman, so feel free to call me bigoted just because of how I was born. I’ll gladly ignore you and bask in the irony. That being said, I don’t want to argue about things like this.

I’m an aspiring author. I’m working on a book right now, actually. Feel free to ask me about it if you want your head filled with useless facts about its universe.


Racism is bad, everyone. But hating all cops is just as bad. Let’s try to accept everyone.

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Sanghyeok
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Founded: Dec 29, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Sanghyeok » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:18 pm

Atheris wrote:
Sanghyeok wrote:
I have read that Wilson sent soldiers to Russia to fight against the revolution, yes.

He's also the cause of literally everything related to the US and Europe that happened after Versailles, and this is not hyperbole. If he lost in 1912, then WW1 would be shorter. There'd be no Russian Revolution, which (likely) means no Nazis, which means no Holocaust, which means no Arab/Israeli conflict, which means a significant lack of rise in Arab nationalism and Ba'athism, which means no Nasser, Saddam, or al-Assad, which means no Gulf War, which means no Iraq War, which means no ISIL. Without the Russian Revolution, the USSR never forms, so the Cuban Missile Crisis never happens, China remains nationalist, North Korea never exists, the Eastern Bloc is never formed, Afghanistan is never invaded, the Taliban doesn't take the country over, and 9/11 doesn't happen.


From my viewpoint the Russian Revolution was a good thing. But more important for this thread is hypotheticals you bring up, which I don't think are true.

サンヒョク社会主義連合連邦
我が祖国は、革命の赤旗を守る!世界の労働者万歳 統一戦線万歳 どんな時も その眩しさ 覚えていた
Chairwoman Oomiya in tea party with Azur Deutschland leaders Julienne and Sylvia | Chairwoman Oomiya to receive delegation from various realms in celebration of 861st Birthday Gala
Mini custard puddings
And fresh poured Darjeeling
Strawberry parfait so sweet and appealing,
Little soft plushies and baths in hot springs
These are a few of my favorite things


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