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[Trashed] Condemn Alvonia Founder

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Romano-Campania
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[Trashed] Condemn Alvonia Founder

Postby Romano-Campania » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:41 pm

First time writing a proposal, this is just a first draft.

EDIT: This proposal is now dead.

The Security Council,

Observing that Alvonia Founder, the founder of the region known as Alvonia, has, on multiple occasions, left Alvonia, causing chaos in the governance of the region, before returning and overthrowing the free, democratic government that had been created in the absence of a founder;

Shocked at the most recent coup d’etat by Alvonia Founder, in which the democratically elected king of Alvonia, Prussian-Germany, was expelled from Alvonia, despite the opposition to Alvonia Founder’s actions by many of Alvonia’s citizens;

Horrified at the brutal civil war the actions of Alvonia Founder have precipitated, into which multiple other regions have been dragged, which has devastated the population of Alvonia, reducing the number of resident nations by more than half;

Disgusted at Alvonia Founder's stated reason for overthrowing the government, which was to utilize Alvonia's recently ratified alliance with Prudentia, OmniOne, Imperial Kingdoms, the Treaty Of Berlin Alliance Confederation, to conquer other regions;

Appalled at the threats of invasion leveled by Alvonia Founder towards the regions of Prudentia and OmniOne, then allies of Alvonia, for refusing to support Alvonia Founder's ambitions of conquest in the aftermath of the recent coup d’etat;

Hereby Condemns Alvonia Founder
Last edited by Romano-Campania on Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:54 pm

So an inactive founder started a fight in their region?

Not condemnable.
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Romano-Campania
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Postby Romano-Campania » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:10 pm

Comfed wrote:So an inactive founder started a fight in their region?

Not condemnable.


Are there specific rules for what is and isn’t condemnable, or is that just precedent? I haven’t found anything in the rules.
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Postby Comfed » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:30 pm

Romano-Campania wrote:
Comfed wrote:So an inactive founder started a fight in their region?

Not condemnable.


Are there specific rules for what is and isn’t condemnable, or is that just precedent? I haven’t found anything in the rules.

Just precedent.
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Postby Tinhampton » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:39 pm

Comfed wrote:So an inactive founder started a fight in their region?

Not condemnable.

Alvonia Founder did not "[start] a fight in their region;" they simply - and rather unfairly - cleared out the house. Romano-Campania can count on my full support for his proposal, regardless of actual content - although I would genuinely like to see more elaboration on the points he make in this draft, particularly in the APPALLED clause.
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:20 pm

Nothing Condemnable here. Founders can do what they like in their regions. And note that having Tinhampton’s support means nothing - it’s usually considered the kiss of death to any proposal.

Next please.
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Morover » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:57 am

Agree with BBD - I find it weird to c/c "[region] Founder" in any circumstances, much less the founder of a region I've never heard of. I would've been okay with it if there was perhaps a more compelling case, but it just sounds like Alvonia Founder is doing a poor job at managing their region. If you don't like it, there are hundreds upon hundreds of other regions out there you can join - you can even start your own one.

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:49 pm

Alvonia's a tiny region without much significance in the NS verse, so they don't deserve a condemnation.
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Postby Tinhampton » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:51 pm

Morover wrote:...it just sounds like Alvonia Founder is doing a poor job at managing their region. If you don't like it, there are hundreds upon hundreds of other regions out there you can join - you can even start your own one.

The author is the WA Delegate of The Heirs of Rome, a region which predates Alvonia by a number of months. ;P
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Romano-Campania
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Postby Romano-Campania » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:01 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:Alvonia's a tiny region without much significance in the NS verse, so they don't deserve a condemnation.

Before the recent coup, Alvonia had a population of a little over 30 nations, most of which then left the region, which is why it's only 14 now.

I also don't see why the population of a region should matter. The proposal is also leveled at the founder, not the region.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:18 pm

Romano-Campania wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Alvonia's a tiny region without much significance in the NS verse, so they don't deserve a condemnation.

Before the recent coup, Alvonia had a population of a little over 30 nations, most of which then left the region, which is why it's only 14 now.

I also don't see why the population of a region should matter. The proposal is also leveled at the founder, not the region.

Still doesn't seem like enough to merit a condemnation.
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The Moscow Soviet Red Army
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Postby The Moscow Soviet Red Army » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:37 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Romano-Campania wrote:Before the recent coup, Alvonia had a population of a little over 30 nations, most of which then left the region, which is why it's only 14 now.

I also don't see why the population of a region should matter. The proposal is also leveled at the founder, not the region.

Still doesn't seem like enough to merit a condemnation.


me was there and it does deserve a condemnation. comrades have to realize that founders just can't rip up the region and government THEY APPOVED OF because they are dictators. this could happen in any region, and any government that doesn't have the founder as the leader (like, say, republics?) are at risk for this very thing. me hopes that this will not become more Parisian bickering, because it would be nice for the WA to do something that actually matters.

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The Moscow Soviet Red Army
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Postby The Moscow Soviet Red Army » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:40 pm

Romano-Campania wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Alvonia's a tiny region without much significance in the NS verse, so they don't deserve a condemnation.

Before the recent coup, Alvonia had a population of a little over 30 nations, most of which then left the region, which is why it's only 14 now.

I also don't see why the population of a region should matter. The proposal is also leveled at the founder, not the region.


Comrade is going to correct you, at our highest we were at 64 with PG at the head. And climbing.

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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:46 pm

Romano-Campania wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Alvonia's a tiny region without much significance in the NS verse, so they don't deserve a condemnation.

Before the recent coup, Alvonia had a population of a little over 30 nations, most of which then left the region, which is why it's only 14 now.

I also don't see why the population of a region should matter. The proposal is also leveled at the founder, not the region.

And still, no one cares. It is a regional dispute. It is not worth our time.

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:46 pm

The Moscow Soviet Red Army wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Still doesn't seem like enough to merit a condemnation.


me was there and it does deserve a condemnation. comrades have to realize that founders just can't rip up the region and government THEY APPOVED OF because they are dictators. this could happen in any region, and any government that doesn't have the founder as the leader (like, say, republics?) are at risk for this very thing. me hopes that this will not become more Parisian bickering, because it would be nice for the WA to do something that actually matters.

To quote BBD,
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Nothing Condemnable here. Founders can do what they like in their regions. And note that having Tinhampton’s support means nothing - it’s usually considered the kiss of death to any proposal.

Next please.

Seems to me it's just a regional dispute, nothing to the point requiring SC action.
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Postby Prussian-Germany » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:52 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Romano-Campania wrote:Before the recent coup, Alvonia had a population of a little over 30 nations, most of which then left the region, which is why it's only 14 now.

I also don't see why the population of a region should matter. The proposal is also leveled at the founder, not the region.

And still, no one cares. It is a regional dispute. It is not worth our time.


The reason for this establishment is for the NS World to vote. Personally, I do not mind what comes up on the SC voting bloc, only that delegates doesn't sit around waiting for the SC to vote for something.
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Prussian-Germany
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Postby Prussian-Germany » Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:55 pm

Also, I am not going to lobby for nor against this bill. Personally, I was there, I was the one that had this all happen too, and just thinking about it, it could happen at the largest of the large and the smallest regions in NS. Crush it before this becomes a precedent that founders do.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:10 pm

Prussian-Germany wrote:Also, I am not going to lobby for nor against this bill. Personally, I was there, I was the one that had this all happen too, and just thinking about it, it could happen at the largest of the large and the smallest regions in NS. Crush it before this becomes a precedent that founders do.

So you're basically lobbying for this proposal. Frankly, many of the SC regulars don't think this proposal is worth the time to vote on.
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Postby Prussian-Germany » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:11 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Prussian-Germany wrote:Also, I am not going to lobby for nor against this bill. Personally, I was there, I was the one that had this all happen too, and just thinking about it, it could happen at the largest of the large and the smallest regions in NS. Crush it before this becomes a precedent that founders do.

So you're basically lobbying for this proposal. Frankly, many of the SC regulars don't think this proposal is worth the time to vote on.


Not so. I never wanted this nor asked for it. I'm just here, trying to rebuild and not be crushed my bigger regions.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:16 pm

Prussian-Germany wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:So you're basically lobbying for this proposal. Frankly, many of the SC regulars don't think this proposal is worth the time to vote on.


Not so. I never wanted this nor asked for it. I'm just here, trying to rebuild and not be crushed my bigger regions.

Then it's definitely a regional issue, one you guys can deal with.
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Postby Prussian-Germany » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:31 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Prussian-Germany wrote:
Not so. I never wanted this nor asked for it. I'm just here, trying to rebuild and not be crushed my bigger regions.

Then it's definitely a regional issue, one you guys can deal with.


Until it happens in your region, and you come running here to get a condemnation.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:40 pm

Prussian-Germany wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Then it's definitely a regional issue, one you guys can deal with.


Until it happens in your region, and you come running here to get a condemnation.

Not something I would do in that case. Seems like you're trying to lobby for a proposal with no merits and want to get the condemnation passed no matter what.
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Postby Prussian-Germany » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:41 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Prussian-Germany wrote:
Until it happens in your region, and you come running here to get a condemnation.

Not something I would do in that case. Seems like you're trying to lobby for a proposal with no merits and want to get the condemnation passed no matter what.


It seems to me that you did not read the part where I said I am not lobbing for this.
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Postby Outer Sparta » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:42 pm

Prussian-Germany wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Not something I would do in that case. Seems like you're trying to lobby for a proposal with no merits and want to get the condemnation passed no matter what.


It seems to me that you did not read the part where I said I am not lobbing for this.

If there are such cases, the SC will usually judge it on a case-by-case basis to see if it merits any condemnation, but mostly these aren't matters for the SC to decide as they're strictly regional conflicts.
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Postby Prussian-Germany » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:44 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Prussian-Germany wrote:
It seems to me that you did not read the part where I said I am not lobbing for this.

If there are such cases, the SC will usually judge it on a case-by-case basis to see if it merits any condemnation, but mostly these aren't matters for the SC to decide as they're strictly regional conflicts.


Then let the SC decide, and let the WA approve or disapprove. I'm just going to be over here doing work stuff.
King of Alvonia
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Minister of Defense of the Kingdom of Alvonia

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