[Discussion] That Way MADness Lies

[Valentine Z]

From here, courtesy of Pogaria:

Good evening, my fellow nations.

The Issues Editors, as promised, have maintained the closest surveillance of possible dilemmas that may be of interest to world leaders. Within the past few years, it has become apparent that there are even more intriguing situations that are not adequately covered by a single issue. The purpose of these multi-issue "chains" can be none other than to provide worthy quandaries for testing your nation's resolve. This latest effort was created to challenge those of you who have weapons of mass destruction.

My fellow nations, let no one doubt that this is a difficult and dangerous effort on which we have set out. No one can foresee precisely what course it will take or what costs or casualties will be incurred. However, we do know that dismissing any issue in a chain will forever prevent your nation from ever receiving the chain again. No matter how dire the situation appears, or how close your nation is to annihilation, choosing one of the options will only lead to more issues, not the end of your nation.

The cost of issues is always high, but the great leaders of NationStates have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose is the path of inactivity or ceasing to exist, because the greatest danger of all would be to do nothing.

Thank you and good night.

So... what is it? Obviously from what was said, the issue might only be valid for those with the "We have WMDs" Policy. It sounds really grand when you read it, right? And once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for you to get it, and then perhaps never again if you dismiss it at any point in time (or complete it, but again, my assumptions).

I personally think that this will be a long issue chain, maybe consisting of 10+ issues from one to another, along with branching and the like, just like a RPG dialogue. Another main concern for me is on the stats that it might change. It does say that the issues will not end your nation, but as someone who lives and dies (mostly) to NS Stats, I would be bummed if it actually tanks some of my best stats. I guess the best thing is to use a puppet nation and see what sticks and what doesn't, even if that puppet nation doesn't exactly have the same stats as Valentine Z.

What kind of questions and guesses you have regarding this announcement? What are your takes on this? ^^

[Honeydewistania]

It’s definitely nukes related. The capitalisation or MAD gives it away a little

[SherpDaWerp]

What kind of questions and guesses you have regarding this announcement? What are your takes on this? ^^

I'm assuming Pogaria's full 31 recent authorships form this chain, which would make it easily the longest chain published. By my counts, An International Incident has 19 issues, @@CAPITAL@@gate has 10, and The Enemy Within also has 10 - so this is at least 12 issues longer than the next-longest chain.

We know it requires you to have WMDs, but the heavy emphasis in the news post on pointing out that issues can't destroy your nation:

No matter how dire the situation appears, or how close your nation is to annihilation, choosing one of the options will only lead to more issues, not the end of your nation.

makes me think that at least one path will lead to your nation getting nuked.

[Valentine Z]

It would be hilarious if your nation's population and everything dropped to 0 for a single day, but then pull an April Fools on everyone and restore them back.

But I think that would backfire and there will be a lot of angry questions. And I reckon it will take some effort to code them.

[Trotterdam]

So far I've seen 9 effect lines, of which 3 feature rhymes and 3 feature puns. And yes, definitely nukes.

[Fauxia]

There are probably 31 issues in the chain. Pogaria's number shot up from 5 last time I looked to 36. It is possible other editors had issues, but this one seems to be Pogaria's project, as Sedgistan hinted in the last Got Issues update.

[Minoa]

05/10/2020, 23:53:00 CEST: Following new legislation in Pogaria, the nation is relieved that all of the recent madness has finally come to an end.
05/10/2020, 23:50:27 CEST: Following new legislation in Pogaria, international negotiations always lead to a lot of missile-laneous expenses.
05/10/2020, 23:37:12 CEST: Following new legislation in Pogaria, sly spies try to rely on national allies so that they don't die.
05/10/2020, 23:34:41 CEST: Following new legislation in Pogaria, there's more than one way to skin a diplomat.
05/10/2020, 23:31:36 CEST: Following new legislation in Pogaria, a friend in need is a friend with nuclear greed.

We have clues. I am posting this here as a matter of historical record, as in to track down when the starting issue was first distributed.

Source: https://www.nationstates.net/page=activ ... on.pogaria

[SherpDaWerp]

We have clues. I am posting this here as a matter of historical record, as in to track down when the starting issue was first distributed.

Source: https://www.nationstates.net/page=activ ... on.pogaria

Non-legally-binding request but if I may, can you please spoiler those for the benefit of others?

[Honeydewistania]

We have clues. I am posting this here as a matter of historical record, as in to track down when the starting issue was first distributed.

Source: https://www.nationstates.net/page=activ ... on.pogaria

Non-legally-binding request but if I may, can you please spoiler those for the benefit of others?

I mean, they’re clearly visible on Pogaria’s national page, which the whole world has seen now that they posted something on the news

[SherpDaWerp]

Non-legally-binding request but if I may, can you please spoiler those for the benefit of others?

I mean, they’re clearly visible on Pogaria’s national page, which the whole world has seen now that they posted something on the news

It's a harmless request, and I hadn't looked through Pogaria's happenings for them myself, so as much as I'm somewhat indifferent I did just have them "spoiled". There will be others in my position - why not just spoiler it and save the trouble?

[The Campbell Nation]

It may just be my reading, but I couldn’t help but notice that the wording of the announcement, particularly the opening, seems to mirror, perhaps even allude to, JFK’s public address on the eve of the Cuban Missile Crisis. So something drawing from that would be my first guess.

[Trotterdam]

Word of warning: the first issue in the chain seems to have an option that opts you out of the story without playing through the rest of the chain. It may or may not be obviously signposted, we'll see Voxija posts it to the spoiler thread (though in my experience, no matter how obvious something is, there will still be some people who don't notice it).

[Honeydewistania]

Word of warning: the first issue in the chain seems to have an option that opts you out of the story without playing through the rest of the chain. It may or may not be obviously signposted, we'll see Voxija posts it to the spoiler thread (though in my experience, no matter how obvious something is, there will still be some people who don't notice it).

Chose a similar option for The Enemy Within, at least my apathy increased

[Minoa]

Word of warning: the first issue in the chain seems to have an option that opts you out of the story without playing through the rest of the chain. It may or may not be obviously signposted, we'll see Voxija posts it to the spoiler thread (though in my experience, no matter how obvious something is, there will still be some people who don't notice it).

That's the last option (option 4), obviously.

As for my issues puppet, I may have to wait to see which option causes a nuclear war like in the first Issues Chain (#407).

[Fauxia]

It’s internal option 7 for the record, Minoa.

[Flanderlion]

I love issue chains (still wish they were repeatable every few years), so thanks for all the new issues, and especially this chain. Not sure how far through it I am, but I'm enjoying it.

[Pogaria]

I love issue chains (still wish they were repeatable every few years), so thanks for all the new issues, and especially this chain. Not sure how far through it I am, but I'm enjoying it.

I'm glad you like it.


So... has anyone figured out all of the references in the chain yet? Most of the Bond ones are obvious, but there are many others.

[Fauxia]

I love issue chains (still wish they were repeatable every few years), so thanks for all the new issues, and especially this chain. Not sure how far through it I am, but I'm enjoying it.

I'm glad you like it.


So... has anyone figured out all of the references in the chain yet? Most of the Bond ones are obvious, but there are many others.

San Vitenzo heavily references a Vonnegut novel I've never read.

[Valentine Z]

- President Ken J. Finnedy in #1400 seems to be a reference to John F. Kennedy.
- #1400 "Doc" Moreno: Jacob Levy Moreno (born Iacob Levy; May 18, 1889 – May 14, 1974) was a Romanian-American psychiatrist, psychosociologist, and educator, the founder of psychodrama, and the foremost pioneer of group psychotherapy. During his lifetime, he was recognized as one of the leading social scientists. [I had to look up this one, sorry!]
- #1403: EV0 is... I thought of EVE Online, but I don't think that's it. That, and I thought EV0 is a leftover denonym of Rhein States, but nope, doesn't seem that way.

Err... that is about it for now.

[Jutsa]

San Ventinezo (checks) Vitenzo is also almost definitely the NS analogue for Cuba.

I'm not sure about all the names because I'm bad with history, though; say, for instance, Defense Minister Rolan Malinovich, I don't recognize. Definitely communist though.
Similarly, Natasha Milanova I don't recognize, although it feels like a Russian spy name.

President Ken J. Finnedy is obviously John F. Kennedy cause of course it is. Chairman Joseph Rushev is almost definitely a combination of Joseph Stalin and...
shoot, I don't recall Rushev. I keep thinking Gorbotrov but I know that's not it. Why can't I put my finger on Rushev?

Andrea Gramyki I wish I recognized; in the socialist variant they're your diplomacy minister, in the capitalist variant seems to be a guitar plucker.
Could be Arlo Guthri, but I can't be for certain. Heck, it could be a glomeration of multiple names.
That said, "Comrade Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band" I definitely recall, you beetle.
Similarly I don't recall Maureen Dusk, sadly. At first I stipulated it might be another Elon Musk, but it doesn't make sense in this context.

@EV0: I got it as @@CAPITAL@@, myself, so I'm definitely certain that EV0 is not a reference. Furthermore, the EV0ian Coastline suggests it's probably an alt.

Don't recall Crazy Boris or Loco Lopez, though (lest that last one's a Loopin Looey). Dr. Helix Fenniker, similarly, don't recognize, sadly, but I know this is a reference.
(I wanna say it might be from Dr. Strangelove but I can't say I recall any of their names. shoot.)
Mack Rimera I also don't recall, sadly. Granfalloon I can't say I know. boko-maru neither, though maybe it's bora-bora?

@Doc Moreno: Huh. Did not know that! I was low-key wondering if it was Dr. Monroe from the H. G. Wells book. Dang I had forgotten that one, that was brutal as all hell.
Ramona Moreno would absolutely fit that description though; perhaps more than the other Moreno.

‘N’ I don't recall. And at this point I'm pretty sure I recognize no other references.

In looking through reported issues, I'm so happy you made People’s EqualiTea. That's. Dang.

[Trotterdam]

San Vitenzo is also almost definitely the NS analogue for Cuba.

Well yeah, that was blaringly obvious, but where is the name from?

Similarly, Natasha Milanova I don't recognize, although it feels like a Russian spy name.

Natasha is the name of a number of fictional characters, at least two of which are villains/spies of some sort. Apparently Natasha Romanova is the civilian name of Black Widow from Marvel Comics, which is similar enough that it's probably the inspiration. The article on her says that she was originally a Russian spy, though she defected in a later storyline.

Of course, it's an American-made comic, so "Russian spy" is interpreted to mean "villain" and "defected" is interpreted to mean "turned into a hero".

Chairman Joseph Rushev is almost definitely a combination of Joseph Stalin and...
shoot, I don't recall Rushev. I keep thinking Gorbotrov but I know that's not it. Why can't I put my finger on Rushev?

Lots of Soviet/Russian leaders (and non-leader citizens, I'd presume) have names that end in "-ev", including Nikita Khrushchev (who was in charge during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and almost rhymes with "Rushev" depending on how it's meant to be pronounced, so it's probably the source), Leonid Brezhnev, and Mikhail Gorbachev.

[Valentine Z]

San Vitenzo is also almost definitely the NS analogue for Cuba.

Well yeah, that was blaringly obvious, but where is the name from?

The closest I can find it probably this!

[Jutsa]

Lots of Soviet/Russian leaders (and non-leader citizens, I'd presume) have names that end in "-ev"

Ah, so it's basically Russian-ev.

The closest I can find it probably this!

I thought it seemed awfully similar to a San Vincenzo, but that just doesn't make any sense in this context.

[Giovanniland]

San Vitenzo heavily references a Vonnegut novel I've never read.

My research also pointed out several references to this novel by Vonnegut, which is the one you probably mentioned. All the evidence I have gathered in the following refers to the novel and its chapters, although I haven't read it in full, rather just searched some chapters for more clues.

The San Vitenzo name: there's a San Lorenzo in the same novel, which is mentioned to be an island in the Caribbean Sea. I'm guessing that's where San Vitenzo comes from, especially since it's the NS analogue of Cuba (also a Caribbean island).

There's also "Bokononism," which is the religion of San Lorenzo in the RL novel. In the NS chain, San Vitenzo's president refers to Almighty Bokonon (a deity) as well as boko-maru (a ritual?), though I'm not sure about the latter.

Furthermore, in the capitalist chain only: the chancellor of Smalltopia's name seems to be Kurt Zahmahkibo (a fixed name). I searched the surname and found out it's a chapter name on the same novel. The word is explained to be a Bokononist word meaning "fate—inevitable destiny" on the same chapter, and that could refer to the inevitable fate of being nuked in a WMD conflict.

Similarly, Natasha Milanova I don't recognize, although it feels like a Russian spy name.

Natasha is the name of a number of fictional characters, at least two of which are villains/spies of some sort. Apparently Natasha Romanova is the civilian name of Black Widow from Marvel Comics, which is similar enough that it's probably the inspiration. The article on her says that she was originally a Russian spy, though she defected in a later storyline.

Seeing as the name change was Romanova to Milanova, it could be a pun with the Italian cities of Rome and Milan. Not really sure.

[Lord Dominator]

I do appreciate that you can effectively act as the US or USSR in this (based on the reported issues), even though it threw me for a loop that I was the US in this scenario